dlbalr Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He'll be right back at it in a month. He'll be at 60% health, taking all comers from the minor leagues. And therein lies a big problem. There is no need or point for him to be fighting in the preseason but I'm sure he will. He did last year too, I remember a few of us at the time noting that fighting a minor leaguer was pretty stupid coming off shoulder issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I share the general view that Prust is more-or-less done. He plays an especially demanding style and guys that do that typically do break down very young. It's a shame, because in his prime he was about as impactful a bottom-6 FW as it's possible to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Or maybe.... it is oblique trouble, and you're all full of it.... and back comes the Prust we all know and love! Need him healthy more this year than ever. I still say one of the Habs biggest problems is a no hitting forward troop, need some physical play out of one line at least, and I don't see many physical players in the lineup, period. Yeah I like that one. He comes back all healed up and away we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Prust is done and Moan is damaged goods. Weise, Bournival and delaRose (maybe)? will need to fill in more I guess, is that such a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 has prust had any surgery since the ecf? rest n recuperation doesn't seem to remedy the damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Prust is done and Moan is damaged goods. Weise, Bournival and delaRose (maybe)? will need to fill in more I guess, is that such a bad thing? Not a bad thing at all, especially if Weise can keep playing like he did in the playoffs...but we do have an awful lot of dough invested in "done" fourth liners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 However plays out, I like have 'too many' 4th liners and should be spirited competition for spots, as well as for the #6/7 d-man slot, with Nygren, Beaulieu, Tinordi and long shot Pateryn who might open the season on roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Prust is done and Moan is damaged goods. Weise, Bournival and delaRose (maybe)? will need to fill in more I guess, is that such a bad thing? Weise, Bournival and DeLaRose aren't fourth liners, only Weise is close. If Weise gets off to a decent start scoring, his speed just might make him a 3rd line guy? Then what for 4th line if Prust and Moen are done as some of you say? I agree that they probably are done as effective fighters, so then Habs will need something else for 4th line/fighting duties. Outside of Prust, we don't have a guy that can fight, and that is no good, and Bergevin knows that. Don't want to see a disaster like vs Ottawa, and Toronto, with our players getting career threatening concussions, and nobody on the bench to deter it... Bruins, don't matter, we know how to beat them on the scoreboard. As much as fighting is under scrutiny, it isn't even close to gone, and Habs need at least one fighter.... maybe MB is still working on some kind of deal with Colorado for Patrick Bordeleau or something similar? I just think it's a huge mistake to not have somebody to throw down, and be a bit crazy out there when times call for it, and they will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 How often will 'crazy times' be? is it worth putting Bournival or de la Rose in press box for Parros II to play his 5 shifts and be a -1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Well, "goons" aside, if we think Prust and Moen are more or less washed-up, that has troubling implications in one sense: both of those guys were able to drop the mitts, while neither Bournival nor Weise really have this in their tool-kit. Unless those guys can play regularly, we are going into the season literally having nobody who can throw down. That is a really aberrant situation for any pro hockey team. I may have to revise my earlier comment that we lose nothing besides cap space in replacing Prust and Moen with Bournival and Weise. This is a worrisome situation to contemplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Aberrant to some..the way of the future NHL as I see it and I got no issue with it or just the opposite I suppose.. Wont happen overnight but teams like LA and Hawks do just fine with no untalented-thug ever dressed. Those who really enjoy bloodsports can always get their thrills watching UFC or dog fighting or Darwin award winners on You Tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Kings may have no resident "top grade" fighter only type guy, but they had nearly an entire line up that could physically pound teams into the ground in a physical game, Habs don't have that type of lineup Don, like it or not, your future NHL isn't here yet bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 dons dreaming of a non-contact fictional nhl. I agree that the kings don't have a resident "goon" but theyre the toughest team in the league by a mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Aberrant to some..the way of the future NHL as I see it and I got no issue with it or just the opposite I suppose.. Wont happen overnight but teams like LA and Hawks do just fine with no untalented-thug ever dressed. Those who really enjoy bloodsports can always get their thrills watching UFC or dog fighting or Darwin award winners on You Tube. The Hawks dressed both Bollig and Sheldon Brookbank at different times this year. They've also employed Jamal Mayers, Carcillo and John Scott in the last three years. We've seen the results of not having any muscle time and time again in the past. No grit, no glory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The issue isn't goons - nor is it really "grit" (Weise, Subban, Emelin, and others are plenty gritty) - but rather having guys on the team who can competently drop the gloves if need be. How many teams in the NHL really have NO ONE who can fight? I'd be interested to read that list; I'll bet it's pretty short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The issue isn't goons - nor is it really "grit" (Weise, Subban, Emelin, and others are plenty gritty) - but rather having guys on the team who can competently drop the gloves if need be. How many teams in the NHL really have NO ONE who can fight? I'd be interested to read that list; I'll bet it's pretty short. I'd toss Detroit, Carolina, New Jersey, Minnesota, and Tampa in there for sure. All of those teams either don't really have a true fighter (but have someone like a Weise who does from time to time), or they have one that can't stay healthy. (Tampa may come as a surprise but they quietly turfed their main fighters this offseason.) Chicago dealt Bollig so they don't really have anyone who I'd call a good fighter either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I love New Jersey. Five years ago that roster is a powerhouse. Cammalleri, Jagr, Ryder, Havlat, Elias, Clowe and Ruutu. They are totally banking on these guys to still have some magic in the tank. Easy as it is to write them off, they could all just somehow click with Schneider playing great in goal and steal a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I love New Jersey. Five years ago that roster is a powerhouse. Cammalleri, Jagr, Ryder, Havlat, Elias, Clowe and Ruutu. They are totally banking on these guys to still have some magic in the tank. Easy as it is to write them off, they could all just somehow click with Schneider playing great in goal and steal a playoff spot. Man, if they win even half the shootouts they lost last year, they stand a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'd toss Detroit, Carolina, New Jersey, Minnesota, and Tampa in there for sure. Five very entertaining and successful franchises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'd toss Detroit, Carolina, New Jersey, Minnesota, and Tampa in there for sure. All of those teams either don't really have a true fighter (but have someone like a Weise who does from time to time), or they have one that can't stay healthy. (Tampa may come as a surprise but they quietly turfed their main fighters this offseason.) Chicago dealt Bollig so they don't really have anyone who I'd call a good fighter either. I agree with CC--- You don't need a fighter per say, but you need somebody to respond legitimately. As for the teams you mentioned ,other than Chicago, only Tampa had a successful year in my mind. Prove to me you can be successful without some sort of major grit and we will talk about it. TB will have Hedman at 6-6, Sustr at 6-8, Boyle at 6-7, Brewer at 6-4 , so I wouldn't worry about someone picking on them. Chicago is interesting. We will see if they have to revise their thinking or are they the bell tower, and lead the league in a new direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Five very entertaining and successful franchises. Well, 3 of them made the playoffs last year and 4 of them have won Cups in the last 12 years (though obviously their rosters were different then than now). If you add Chicago in that group of 5 as I did at the end of my previous post, then 4 made the playoffs last year and 5 of them have Cups in the last 12 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I think we can talk our way out of common sense. We saw the Habs get run out of the rink two playoffs ago against Ottawa, and we have seen the Habs be intimidated at recurring points over the past decade by big, aggressive thug teams (Boston excepted - we seem congenitally incapable of being intimidated by those arseholes). Watching that Tinordi/Torres footage in the "Advanced Stats" thread, it's almost impossible to say that you don't want that on your team - a guy, maybe more than one, who can step in a just kick the living snot out of a player who crosses the line. (That Torres in fact did not cross a line on that play is immaterial to the wider point). Look at the awe in which Lucic or Chara are held all over the league and ask yourself whether you wouldn't mind having a guy who can play in the top-9 AND who can terrorize opponents with the knowledge that he can demolish anyone in a fight. Maybe we can eke out success without a player or two who can drop 'em. Teams have won without elite goaltending, so anything is possible. But it would be better to have those players than to not have them. Would you REALLY say no if Boston offered us Lucic for a 6th-round pick? And would your acceptance of that offer really having nothing, zero, zilch to do with Lucic's prowess as a physical intimidator? And again, I'm not talking about goons here. I'm talking about Larry Robinson-style Intimidators who radiate the message "you'd better play it straight" while also taking effective regular shifts. That's be the ideal. Regulars of the Moen-Prust profile aren't really intimidating but they do at least send the message that the team is prepared to answer the challenge if necessary - which, again, is better than NOT being able to send that message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I have no issue with tough players if it doesn't come at the cost of the overall skill of the team. I don't think anyone does. I really like Jarred Tinordi. I liked his dad's game too (man at 29 I'm already old enough to say that!). I hope he gets proper minutes this year. The fact he's strong enough to pound a guy is like the sixth best thing about him. I think Connor Crisp has real potential to turn into our Chris Neil. Similar profile, similar career trajectory, similar size (Crisp is an inch taller) and similar skill set. They are also both team first players. If Crisp pans out I'd love to see him in our bottom six. I'd love a Milan Lucic too, but the biggest reason I'd want a Milan Lucic is to have a 20-30 goal power forward that always brings it in the post-season. If Lucic only scored at the pace of say Evgeni Artyukhin, he wouldn't be so desirable it's nice to have a team that can stand up for itself, but even when a team gets physically overpowered, that doesn't mean it loses the game. Colton Orr hardly makes a difference for the Leafs. Boston rarely has our number, even with a better put together squad. The biggest issue I see among fans is that it's a lot like philosophy. Every time a team win the Cup, people analyze why and come to the conclusion that the way to win is how that team in the past won. And sometimes teams obsess over it. Just look at the Leafs for the past eight or so years. They were obsessed with trying to build themselves into the Anaheim Ducks of 2006 who were a big, tough, strong team that won the Cup. They tried adding Ducks management, Ducks players, everything to try and be the Anaheim Ducks. It failed because it only worked once for the Ducks and the NHL changed strategies in a few years. It's possible the Habs right now are obsessed with how the Blackhawks built their Cup championship. There are teams feeding into the Kings two championships like Columbus and looking to try and build a similar team. We're back into the powerhouse era, similar to the 90s. Only the powerhouses are not all run on the fuel of veteran free agency signings. Becoming a powerhouse is difficult because it means consistency, and in the case of the Flyers in the 90s or the Rangers of today, being a powerhouse doesn't guarantee a ring. It just guarantees the playoffs. For the Habs to be a powerhouse, they have to do one of two things: either build on the blueprint of an already successful club or create their own blueprint which teams will be stealing after they win a Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I'd love a Milan Lucic too, but the biggest reason I'd want a Milan Lucic is to have a 20-30 goal power forward that always brings it in the post-season. If Lucic only scored at the pace of say Evgeni Artyukhin, he wouldn't be so desirable Great point, what do you think it would take to get Artyukhin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Well, 3 of them made the playoffs last year and 4 of them have won Cups in the last 12 years (though obviously their rosters were different then than now). If you add Chicago in that group of 5 as I did at the end of my previous post, then 4 made the playoffs last year and 5 of them have Cups in the last 12 seasons. I think the jest of the conversation is whether you still need a pugilist and/or comparable going forward. Making the playoffs, is not a sign of success to me. Maybe it is just me, but when I want to build team I look to what the Stanley cup Champions are doing. i don't model my club after also-runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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