ICEWATER77 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 so no need to panic..he'll sign here longterm for what he's worth, comparable to other top 5 defensemen in the league. no worries, its july..get out on the links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Maybe re-read my original post. Then ask yourself about over-reactions. Also, your assertion that Subban leaving at this offer is ridiculous: that's words. Where is your proof? That is your emotion talking, nothing more. You have zero clue what his reaction is at being offered this amount. So your assertion of ridiculousness epitomizes the world perfectly. Also, "when push comes to shove, MB is not losing PK" precludes the fact that, if he feels slighted enough, PK is well within his rights to take a couple of one-year awards and then leave. Which would therefore mean PK will be lost to MB. I'm not saying any of this happens either, what I'm saying is that it's a low-ball offer which borders on the disrespectful and could very well be cause for concern. And exactly what proof do YOU have Colin? You are giving an opinion based on what? If saying calm down and wait to see what happens is over-reacting then what do you call your gloom and doom idea? It is a lowball offer that means nothing. It is what they asking the arbitrator for, whom they will in all likely hood will never see. This game has been played hundreds of times before. Let's wait and see what happens before you give your self a coronary. Cripes look at Reimer apparently the coach hated him and Riemer wanted out blah blah blah and now he is excited to be a leaf again and all is happy happy. He was the one that everyone guaranteed he was going to arbitration. As to re-reading stuff maybe you should read all the posts in this thread about guys who went to arbitration and it had no effect on their relationship with the team. Oh and read Brian's post just before yours, he puts it much more eloquently than I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 If Subban takes one year he's still an RFA. Seriously Colin, were you asleep during the Eller negotiations? You guys are acting like it definitely all means nothing to Subban. Like whatever is said is just that. How do you know Subban is going to feel the same way? How do you know Subban isn't going to say next year if he's RFA again - hey, remember when you thought I wasn't as good as Markov last year? Well I'm going to take a 1/2 year contract now which takes me into UFA then bu-bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 And exactly what proof do YOU have Colin? You are giving an opinion based on what? If saying calm down and wait to see what happens is over-reacting then what do you call your gloom and doom idea? It is a lowball offer that means nothing. It is what they asking the arbitrator for, whom they will in all likely hood will never see. This game has been played hundreds of times before. Let's wait and see what happens before you give your self a coronary. Cripes look at Reimer apparently the coach hated him and Riemer wanted out blah blah blah and now he is excited to be a leaf again and all is happy happy. He was the one that everyone guaranteed he was going to arbitration. As to re-reading stuff maybe you should read all the posts in this thread about guys who went to arbitration and it had no effect on their relationship with the team. Oh and read Brian's post just before yours, he puts it much more eloquently than I can. One size fits all. *smirk* Now: I was perfectly calm. There was no panic or irrationality I said. I merely stated that it was a fine line that MB was taking and that I didn't particularly like it. Which was subsequently blown out of proportion where I was called a chicken little who was essentially panicking because I didn't like the route taken. Whereupon I took the time to explain exactly where I was coming from, which requires no proof because I wasn't giving any specific example. But if you want proof, then fine. YOU are going into your next contract. You are the best there. You believe you're worth $40/hr and the next best guy at your site who works with you makes $35/hr. So the boss offers you $30/hr. Now, you probably can't put yourself in the moment to feel that situation, but I suspect many people - particularly those with larger egos - are going to look at that $30/hr offer and pretty much say '###### you'. But to reiterate, it is not a panic on my part, it's merely a dislike of the method MB chose on this occasion. If you feel the need to name-call and assume I'm panicking, feel free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 You guys are acting like it definitely all means nothing to Subban. Like whatever is said is just that. How do you know Subban is going to feel the same way? How do you know Subban isn't going to say next year if he's RFA again - hey, remember when you thought I wasn't as good as Markov last year? Well I'm going to take a 1/2 year contract now which takes me into UFA then bu-bye. Surely PK is smart enough to know the difference between a UFA and an RFA price tag. I doubt he thinks that the team believes that Markov is better than him. But really, this is all speculation on our part. None of us can get into PK's head, but my opinion is that he understands that this is a business, and that this predictable low-ball number is just part of the process and not a personal attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 One size fits all. *smirk* Now: I was perfectly calm. There was no panic or irrationality I said. I merely stated that it was a fine line that MB was taking and that I didn't particularly like it. Which was subsequently blown out of proportion where I was called a chicken little who was essentially panicking because I didn't like the route taken. Whereupon I took the time to explain exactly where I was coming from, which requires no proof because I wasn't giving any specific example. But if you want proof, then fine. YOU are going into your next contract. You are the best there. You believe you're worth $40/hr and the next best guy at your site who works with you makes $35/hr. So the boss offers you $30/hr. Now, you probably can't put yourself in the moment to feel that situation, but I suspect many people - particularly those with larger egos - are going to look at that $30/hr offer and pretty much say '###### you'. But to reiterate, it is not a panic on my part, it's merely a dislike of the method MB chose on this occasion. If you feel the need to name-call and assume I'm panicking, feel free. Just to clarify I did not respond to your post in particular. I made a general statement about all the posters who were saying this was a crisis. If you took it that I was calling you a chicken little then look in the mirror. You are the one who jumped on me and started this argument. As to your 2nd paragraph about contracts, that is why professional athletes have agents. To help them discern between the bullshite and the real truth. At any rate I would say this conversation has run it's course. You have a nice day now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 calm down, there's nothing wrong with being concerned that our best player still isn't signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 calm down, there's nothing wrong with being concerned that our best player still isn't signed. I am as calm as calm can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I am as calm as calm can be. For some reason, reading that immediately brought this to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Maybe folks should also try to go based on what Bergevin is thinking? Too often I hear that Bergevin doesn't respect Subban, his offers are insulting Subban, he's not taking Subban's importance into consideration, etc. but how do you know that to be the case? You don't. You're assuming that just because Bergevin isn't doing what you would do that he is treating this with less importance than re-signing other players. I think we all want a GM that's willing to get the best price for our players instead of one that in fear of making someone feel bad, just gives them immediately what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Bergevin bungles this process in the next two years he'll be fired. Bungle, meaning Subban either: A. Asks for a trade. (Think it can't happen? Google "Marty St. Louis"). B. Signs an offer sheet and leaves. C. Is lost for nothing in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Is that a trend, players who go to arbitration twice (which he would need to before he is a UFA) don't resign once a UFA? Or does just ever even happen, cept with crap players? Don't get this jerking around BS, negotiations seem pretty frickin standard and you are worried bout nothing, but is mid-summer so got to disagree bout something. Weber would have been gone had he not signed the offer sheet from Philly that the Preds matched. This would be troubling if the news were true. 5.25 is, in my opinion, insulting and irresponsible. And if Subban really is asking for 8.5, then I can't for the life of me understand why Zoot doesn't take that number and multiply it by 8. Or, more likely since that's Subban's arbitration demand, give Subban 8.25 over 8! Honestly, though, this smacks as totally untrue; the kind of news that came out last week with Eller and the apparent huge difference there before the kid signed his deal. that's Subban's demand in arbitration during his RFA years. It's probably going to cost $9M+ over 8 years. On Friday people will be calling MB a genious for signing Subban to 6 years at 7.3M/year. that ship sailed two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Bergevin bungles this process in the next two years he'll be fired. Bungle, meaning Subban either: A. Asks for a trade. (Think it can't happen? Google "Marty St. Louis"). B. Signs an offer sheet and leaves. C. Is lost for nothing in FA. Hasn't he been nominated for GM of the year twice now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There's going to be a face-to-face meeting with Bergevin/Meehan tomorrow. That will be when the 'tough talks' will really take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There's going to be a face-to-face meeting with Bergevin/Meehan tomorrow. That will be when the 'tough talks' will really take place. Let's hope it gets done tomorrow. This can't go to arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 There's going to be a face-to-face meeting with Bergevin/Meehan tomorrow. That will be when the 'tough talks' will really take place. I am betting they make a deal, it really can't be that hard. The cap is going up and PK is a great player. He will get sufficient money to smooth over any perceived slights. He is going to be 1 very rich dude living the dream in Montreal. I am so envious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 And the winner is....... But really, this is all speculation on our part. None of us can get into PK's head, but my opinion is that he understands that this is a business, and that this predictable low-ball number is just part of the process and not a personal attack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Mr. 29. Who did Weber sign with, did he make it to be a UFA? Nyet, so you gots to keep lookin for a bad example. Weber also signed to a sane contract for a top 5 d-man, so I say you are still worrying bout nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Meehan said on the Bob McCowan show that the reason this is taking so long is because Bergevin and Meehan are wrangling over how much the cap is expected to go up during the contract years. He said that's the only issue, Montreal is very happy with Subban and are very understanding of his value to the team. It's just business on the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Explain that to the vast majority who are getting very uptight and starting to lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Meehan said on the Bob McCowan show that the reason this is taking so long is because Bergevin and Meehan are wrangling over how much the cap is expected to go up during the contract years. He said that's the only issue, Montreal is very happy with Subban and are very understanding of his value to the team. It's just business on the cap. The cap projection is huge in this discussion. On the one hand you have the expected increase in TV revenues but on the other, there's the declining Canadian dollar. As much as some thought the cap would be in the 90's at the end of the CBA, that doesn't seem realistic right now. Then there's also the chance that a long-term deal could go into a new CBA if the early termination option is exercised. Will there be a rollback like there was in the 2004-05 lockout to get the cap lowered to help the smaller market teams or will there be a redefinition of HRR? If the Habs think one of those two things will happen, they'll want to factor that in as well. There's lots at play beyond the standard bantering about salaries. Any long-term deal isn't easy. A long-term contract that revolves around setting a precedent (his AAV will likely be an NHL record...at least since the introduction of AAV's) and a new financial situation league-wide is going to be even more challenging. That's not to say one won't get done but there's more to things than a lot of people realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I agree it's huge. It's why we're having a delay on an official signing. But it at least clears up that this isn't about spilled milk or anything else. It's only about the numbers on a long term deal due to the cap. Nothing else. If there was no cap the deal would be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Explain that to the vast majority who are getting very uptight and starting to lose it. Surprised nobody has brought this out: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuternoga Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well boys I would say today is the day. We will hear that he has signed a long term deal 7 or 8 years for a boatload of money. Then we can all relax put down the Rolaids, remove the noose from the ceiling, and enjoy a fine summer day. You heard it here first. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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