habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 title of the thred is habs vs lightning ...... so thats the game we are going over. "negative" ? Nope, the six game winning streak is/was darn good.......and it took a darn good team to stop it at six, we are just discussing that. Sensitive habs fans on this site. I know the team wont bother with as many excuses as some fans do , and just use the (11-3 lopsided efforts) to see what they need to do to beat the lightning in the future. Some of you guys sound like a jealous lover if some one says anything good about a team that beat the Habs. Its ok boys, Tbay is a good team, figuring out whats needed to beat them is key........because the road to the cup for montreal more than likely goes through Tampa bay. A decent power play will be needed. one of your better posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I agree 30. can't give any team props w/o somebody calling you a fairweather fan. it's a lot like a jealous lover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Discussing issues is not negativity, but complaining constantly and making idiotic statements like "MT is an idiot" constantly, in a room full of people, where you know 3% agree with you is just asking for trouble IMHO. I know where I watch hockey with my Hab buddies, we only put up with non Hab fans hating the Habs and grinding our gears, whiny, bitchy, constantly a distraction, argument starting Hab fans aren't welcomed there.... Any clearer? Saying one positive thing among a myriad of sometimes unfounded negativity is just hard to take... Anybody else feel like Chicken Little? Anyone else really think we played our best game vs Tampa, and lost despite that? Is the sky really falling? Sheesh... Women! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah, I'm the last guy to be a homer. If you don't believe me, look at my posts about the team when I first joined HW during the Martin/Gauthier days. I was also extremely critical of MB until he made the Vanek trade, and I've piled on as much as any poster about Gomez, Diaz, Gilbert etcetera. I think the difference is that I've kept an open mind and admit that MB has done an excellent job. I also know that when something is broken don't fix it. I think it's very disappointing to see excessive complaints about the Habs when they have the best team in twenty years. If you aren't enjoying Habs hockey now, when is it going to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just to add fuel to the fire, The Globe and Mail agrees with Habs30/31! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/price-proves-to-be-operative-variable-in-habs-east-standings-equation/article22372507/?cmpid=rss1 I'd be curious to see how the Habs' stats look if we factor in only the 2nd and 3rd periods. Our poor starts may be distorting the data (and overlooking something that I keep suggesting, which is that if you outplay opponents for 2/3 of a game, you're going to win a lot of games). Still. I toss this out because it seems like a useful extension of the discussion here. But can we PLEASE not make this another thread involving personal attacks from and on Habs30? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Not disappointing to see critical posts, I tend to be opposite end of spectrum; but m just not the pessimistic-type and seems are already enough critics whose over the top negativity seems unfounded and makes easy targets to 'debate' with or poke fun at. Is just a game and shouldn't be taken too serious. (if Toronto media agree with me about Habs, I would be darn worried that I am losing it! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just to add fuel to the fire, The Globe and Mail agrees with Habs30/31! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/price-proves-to-be-operative-variable-in-habs-east-standings-equation/article22372507/?cmpid=rss1 I'd be curious to see how the Habs' stats look if we factor in only the 2nd and 3rd periods. Our poor starts may be distorting the data (and overlooking something that I keep suggesting, which is that if you outplay opponents for 2/3 of a game, you're going to win a lot of games). Still. I toss this out because it seems like a useful extension of the discussion here. But can we PLEASE not make this another thread involving personal attacks from and on Habs30? Thank Goodness we have DD to come to the rescue: “I don’t know if the regular measures apply when you have a goalie this good. I would argue we can give up more shots than most other teams without it hurting us as much,” said winger David Desharnais, whose production has benefited from a shift away from his natural centre position. Some math- Elite Goalie-Carey Price-sv% .927 30 shots per game = 2.19 GA Garbage Goalie-Ben Bishop-sv% .911 30 shots per game = 2.67 GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just to add fuel to the fire, The Globe and Mail agrees with Habs30/31! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/price-proves-to-be-operative-variable-in-habs-east-standings-equation/article22372507/?cmpid=rss1 I'd be curious to see how the Habs' stats look if we factor in only the 2nd and 3rd periods. Our poor starts may be distorting the data (and overlooking something that I keep suggesting, which is that if you outplay opponents for 2/3 of a game, you're going to win a lot of games). Still. I toss this out because it seems like a useful extension of the discussion here. But can we PLEASE not make this another thread involving personal attacks from and on Habs30? I've posted it before. Updated: Goals in 2nd Period For: 39 (12th) Goals in 3rd Period For: 50 (1st) Goals in 2nd Period Against: 28 (1st) Goals in 3rd Period Against: 33 (9th) The goals against stat means 1st and 9th for least amount of goals against in those periods. Goals in 1st Period For: 15 (29th) Goals in 1st Period Against: 30 (15th) In other words, for the last 40 minutes of a game we're a Top 10 team for goals and goals against. With a stronger first period we'd be the "dominating" team people wish we were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I also know that when something is broken don't fix it. I think it's very disappointing to see excessive complaints about the Habs when they have the best team in twenty years. If you aren't enjoying Habs hockey now, when is it going to happen? You may want to read and edit your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 In other words, for the last 40 minutes of a game we're a Top 10 team for goals and goals against. With a stronger first period we'd be the "dominating" team people wish we were. And what would be wrong with that? I say let's go do that. The reason that some of us have been harping on the P/P and the poor starts is that it is indicative of a problem. We can all bury our heads in the sand and ignore it but it can back to bite you in the a$$. The time to repair or fix the broken parts is when you have things going your way. Have we not all watched teams go for extended periods beating everybody and then the bottom falls out and they go into a death spiral. If you need an example I think the Laffs (the 18 wheelers) over the past number of years should do the trick. Pointing out deficiencies in the Habs play is not necessarily negative. I thought this was a discussion forum, not a cheer leading forum. If we all just sit here like lumps on a log, cheering, and never offer differing views, then we should shut it down cause it has no point. I believe this team has some problems that need to be addressed, I have said for a long time that while the results are great, they are skewed. In other words out stats do not support our record. The individual who wrote that article is by far not the only one who thinks that. I think if you ask a lot of "experts" they would tell you that this team is baffling. It has no business being close to the top of the league with their stats. That is not being negative that is being realistic. I was happy to see Le Genius working on the P/P in practice the other day, maybe he has figured out that it is a problem. Anyway that is enough about Le Genius, I don't want to start another war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And what would be wrong with that? I say let's go do that. The reason that some of us have been harping on the P/P and the poor starts is that it is indicative of a problem. We can all bury our heads in the sand and ignore it but it can back to bite you in the a$$. The time to repair or fix the broken parts is when you have things going your way. Have we not all watched teams go for extended periods beating everybody and then the bottom falls out and they go into a death spiral. If you need an example I think the Laffs (the 18 wheelers) over the past number of years should do the trick. Pointing out deficiencies in the Habs play is not necessarily negative. I thought this was a discussion forum, not a cheer leading forum. If we all just sit here like lumps on a log, cheering, and never offer differing views, then we should shut it down cause it has no point. I believe this team has some problems that need to be addressed, I have said for a long time that while the results are great, they are skewed. In other words out stats do not support our record. The individual who wrote that article is by far not the only one who thinks that. I think if you ask a lot of "experts" they would tell you that this team is baffling. It has no business being close to the top of the league with their stats. That is not being negative that is being realistic. I was happy to see Le Genius working on the P/P in practice the other day, maybe he has figured out that it is a problem. Anyway that is enough about Le Genius, I don't want to start another war. Nobody has an issue with pointing out deficiencies. The problem is pointing out deficiencies without any context to the rest of the league. I'm tired of putting up actual statistics from other teams and from our team which express the positives and negatives of the Habs only for it to be ignored in the next GDT thread because someone wants to cry about the powerplay again. What's the point showing how the past Stanley Cup teams have hardly relied on a strong PP, especially in the regular season, if people still cry about the PP? If you want a real "fake contender" it was the 07-08 Habs, who fell apart whenever the PP was stopped because they couldn't score five on five. Do I want to see a stronger powerplay? Sure. I want everything to be number one. But stop acting like this team loses because of a weak PP and wins because of Carey Price and that's all that needs to be said. Be a smarter hockey fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Nobody has an issue with pointing out deficiencies. The problem is pointing out deficiencies without any context to the rest of the league. I'm tired of putting up actual statistics from other teams and from our team which express the positives and negatives of the Habs only for it to be ignored in the next GDT thread because someone wants to cry about the powerplay again. What's the point showing how the past Stanley Cup teams have hardly relied on a strong PP, especially in the regular season, if people still cry about the PP? If you want a real "fake contender" it was the 07-08 Habs, who fell apart whenever the PP was stopped because they couldn't score five on five. Do I want to see a stronger powerplay? Sure. I want everything to be number one. But stop acting like this team loses because of a weak PP and wins because of Carey Price and that's all that needs to be said. Be a smarter hockey fan. Well obviously you don't understand my points and that is ok, we will just have to disagree. Unfortunate that you cannot express an opinion without being misleading and insulting. Cheers. Read Eric Engels article it is very good. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eric-Engels/The-Habs-Powerplay-is-Missing-Jaromir-Jagr/82/65468 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Nice statistical post from Machine, though. I've been on this board for years, and I can't remember a time when there was so much personal sniping and so many people taking offence. It's ironic that this happens during what is by far the best Habs' season in years. Now as for the matter at hand: I actually didn't care for Desharnais's comments, because I also think habs rule is correct that the team should be looking to improve on its weak points. DD's remarks suggest that the players are not overly concerned about those weak points because they have such faith in Price's ability to cover up for them. If you want to know why we continue to have weak first periods, look no further than that mentality. I would assume that Therrien has been preaching the importance of better first periods for a while now; but if the players themselves fundamentally don't believe they need to get better in this respect, it's not going to happen. Sounds to me like this bunch looks at the W-L column and says, 'hey, we're doing fine as it is.' No doubt they would prefer to shore up areas of weakness, but they're maybe not willing to pay the price necessary to do so. Contrast that with, say, the 1977 Habs, which lost 8 games. After a goal was scored against, the players would talk to each other asking how they can prevent that from happening next time. After any loss, they were devastated. Now THAT is the mentality of a true champion - demanding excellence in every respect. IF the players were willing to demand 60 rather than 40 dominating minutes from themselves, we might actually have a team that could survive a playoff round in the event that Price goes down. It's quite reasonable for fans to want to see the team committing to those improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Nice statistical post from Machine, though. I've been on this board for years, and I can't remember a time when there was so much personal sniping and so many people taking offence. It's ironic that this happens during what is by far the best Habs' season in years. Now as for the matter at hand: I actually didn't care for Desharnais's comments, because I also think habs rule is correct that the team should be looking to improve on its weak points. DD's remarks suggest that the players are not overly concerned about those weak points because they have such faith in Price's ability to cover up for them. If you want to know why we continue to have weak first periods, look no further than that mentality. I would assume that Therrien has been preaching the importance of better first periods for a while now; but if the players themselves fundamentally don't believe they need to get better in this respect, it's not going to happen. Sounds to me like this bunch looks at the W-L column and says, 'hey, we're doing fine as it is.' No doubt they would prefer to shore up areas of weakness, but they're maybe not willing to pay the price necessary to do so. Contrast that with, say, the 1977 Habs, which lost 8 games. After a goal was scored against, the players would talk to each other asking how they can prevent that from happening next time. After any loss, they were devastated. Now THAT is the mentality of a true champion - demanding excellence in every respect. IF the players were willing to demand 60 rather than 40 dominating minutes from themselves, we might actually have a team that could survive a playoff round in the event that Price goes down. It's quite reasonable for fans to want to see the team committing to those improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Heehee. What's going on around here lately? Several posts in the last couple weeks are full of jabs. I would recomend that posters consider the tone of their posts and keep the little personal jabs out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Heehee. What's going on around here lately? Several posts in the last couple weeks are full of jabs. I would recomend that posters consider the tone of their posts and keep the little personal jabs out. I'm in South Florida, so I blame the start of the winter doldrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This team does indeed have a chance to go all the way this year, as it almost did last spring barring an injury to our MVP. Pretty much one year ago I got in heated debates on this forum with some of the usual suspects about this team not being good enough to make a run. They wanted a fire sale to dump Markov, our captain Gionta etc. So here we are again, among the top teams in the East and the same negativity surrounds the team. Who doesn't want the best PP? Who doesn't want the best everything? The only thing is it isn't realistic. Every team has weaknesses and strengths. At the moment ours is our PP, but hey, we sure can score 5 on 5 and prevent the other team from scoring on the PP. All of the corsi, fenwick, plus minus stats in the world do not matter at the end of the day, wins do. They sure can be indicators over a large sample size but to say that impending doom is about to happen is absurd. I like this current team against any team in a 7 game series as it is. It isn't a fluke that we went to the East final and are now a top team halfway through the next season, what are we even talking about here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Heehee. What's going on around here lately? Several posts in the last couple weeks are full of jabs. I would recomend that posters consider the tone of their posts and keep the little personal jabs out. Yes some posters have no tolerance for opposing views, any comment about the team that doesn't say how great we are is attacked as negative. The personal shots are useless and accomplish nothing. When our team had bad results we all knew the team was bad and we were not as combative. Now the team has great results and some of us say well we have great results but here are the warts. Some are so happy with the results they seek no improvement or just don't want to talk about it. All is good in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The personal shots are useless and accomplish nothing. This is the same guy who called me an idiot a couple weeks ago for the record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This is the same guy who called me an idiot a couple weeks ago for the record http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=23265#entry511633 If we all ignore these kinds of posters they'll move onto another community. After all, it's only attention they seek... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Nobody has an issue with pointing out deficiencies. The problem is pointing out deficiencies without any context to the rest of the league. Yeah, I really know what you mean. You can find the same kinds of complaints if you take five minutes and look at the board of other teams' fans. -Every coach messes with the lines too much -__________ isn't earning their contract -Some underlying metric, whether it's CORSI, Fenwick or PDO is out of whack -The PP/PK is lacking - ________ team just isn't that good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This team does indeed have a chance to go all the way this year, as it almost did last spring barring an injury to our MVP. Pretty much one year ago I got in heated debates on this forum with some of the usual suspects about this team not being good enough to make a run. They wanted a fire sale to dump Markov, our captain Gionta etc. So here we are again, among the top teams in the East and the same negativity surrounds the team. Who doesn't want the best PP? Who doesn't want the best everything? The only thing is it isn't realistic. Every team has weaknesses and strengths. At the moment ours is our PP, but hey, we sure can score 5 on 5 and prevent the other team from scoring on the PP. All of the corsi, fenwick, plus minus stats in the world do not matter at the end of the day, wins do. They sure can be indicators over a large sample size but to say that impending doom is about to happen is absurd. I like this current team against any team in a 7 game series as it is. It isn't a fluke that we went to the East final and are now a top team halfway through the next season, what are we even talking about here? Rangers blew the habs out in game one WITH Carey Price in Montreal. After eliminating the habs in their easiest series New York was toyed with by the Kings. nobody including the Habs were beating the Kings last season. That team was on a mission. Down three games to none? No probs. Win the next four. Down against the Ducks no probs. Losing and behind to the powerful Hawks, so what. The rangers were a cake walk for the kings, easiest series they have had in years. Good thing the habs have improved this year.............that team with Gionta on the top six, Josh "Joke" Gorges on top pair (LOL) wIth PK was no where near good enough to be considered "close to winning it all" but thanks for the laugh cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah, I really know what you mean. You can find the same kinds of complaints if you take five minutes and look at the board of other teams' fans. -Every coach messes with the lines too much -__________ isn't earning their contract -Some underlying metric, whether it's CORSI, Fenwick or PDO is out of whack -The PP/PK is lacking - ________ team just isn't that good so why talk about your team at all......................they are all the same. thats why the kings have more cups in three years than the loafs do in fifty. thats why the habs have one cup in 21 years and the red wings have four in less time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Seriously guys, yet again I'm forced to ask for the personal attacks to stay out of things? Enough is enough. If you can't get the point you're trying to get across without taking a shot at a poster, don't bother making the point (or wait until you figure out how to phrase it without getting personal). On a less important note, who's getting tomorrow's GDT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I am just going to watch. This is the most ludicrous nonsense I have ever seen. Every post has to be an attack? Where's Judge Judy when you need her. The only problem with the ignore function is you see the quotes from the individual you are ignoring. So in the spirit of everybody here is a Habs fan, I will apologize to Illwill for calling him an idiot, if I did. There really is no place for me to say that, I really have no idea if he is an idiot, but like 30/31 he takes these things far too seriously and I probably do as well. So illwill I apologize for calling you an idiot. I still don't agree with you, but I see no point to what this forum has degenerated to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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