TheDriveFor25 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Too much worry about Kessel having an 8 year contract... You have to look at the window to win a Stanley Cup, and right now, it's wide open for maybe 4 years. If adding Kessel helps you win a cup in those 4 years, then you do it and worry about the last 4 years after. If Toronto eats $1 mil of his salary, his contract isn't as horrible as people think. Is he a $3 million upgrade over PAP? Um, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Sure from your armchair Kessel is an easy fit, but Bergevin manages in real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Too much worry about Kessel having an 8 year contract... You have to look at the window to win a Stanley Cup, and right now, it's wide open for maybe 4 years. If adding Kessel helps you win a cup in those 4 years, then you do it and worry about the last 4 years after. If Toronto eats $1 mil of his salary, his contract isn't as horrible as people think. Is he a $3 million upgrade over PAP? Um, yeah. that's assuming that vessel isn't a negative influence in the dressing room and his laziness doesn't rub off on the rest of the lineup. the leaf's shouldn't have been nearly as bad as the team's leadership core made them out to be. Kessel was at the centre of that rotten core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 that's assuming that vessel isn't a negative influence in the dressing room and his laziness doesn't rub off on the rest of the lineup. the leaf's shouldn't have been nearly as bad as the team's leadership core made them out to be. Kessel was at the centre of that rotten core. Of course, when you point this kinda thing out about Saku Koivu it's a free for all to defend him on how terrible the teams were and the coach and the GM and the infighting and.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Kessel's reputation would be entirely different if he played in two different markets. Boston sports fans and media are infamous for trashing their players when they leave town. Before PC hit the sporting world, WEEI used to refer to Mo Vaughn as "Homo Vaughn" and the Wade Boggs and Clemens bashing never stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Both my brothers are die hard Bruin fans . They hated losing Thorton. Hated losing Seguin. Refer to Louis Erikson as the bag of pucks that came back in the deal. But they do still rip/laugh at Kessel. Too much worry about Kessel having an 8 year contract... You have to look at the window to win a Stanley Cup, and right now, it's wide open for maybe 4 years. If adding Kessel helps you win a cup in those 4 years, then you do it and worry about the last 4 years after. If Toronto eats $1 mil of his salary, his contract isn't as horrible as people think. Is he a $3 million upgrade over PAP? Um, yeah. Kessel gonna help the habs win a stanley cup???? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Oh wait, Kessel might throw a monkey wrench into the "good dressing room"....Heaven forbid we jeopardize our winning formula! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Bob McKenzie on #TSN690: "The Montreal Canadiens aren't going to trade for Phil Kessel." Full stop.— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) June 22, 2015 McKenzie said part of the reason Kessel put MTL on his list of acceptable destinations is because he knows TOR won't trade him there— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) June 22, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 His lack of 'intensity' and work effort is just cherry on top of Zillion dollar contract as well as feeding into Leaf rebuild that I would avoid. But 99.9% of us really don't have a clue what he is really like...similar to Jagr. Many HabFans see Jagr-Plekanec playin great together at world championship, Jagr is big, still productive and seems a perfect fit. But, Bergevin isn't ignorant to this stuff and must knows something we don't to avoid offering him a deal (wants too much $, Ego too big, wants term, too old slow-lazy, who knows exactly?) But, he may still take a run at Kessel, but doubt it. (see dlbalr post and seems even less likely and seems logical) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Bob McKenzie on #TSN690: "The Montreal Canadiens aren't going to trade for Phil Kessel." Full stop.— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) June 22, 2015 <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> McKenzie said part of the reason Kessel put MTL on his list of acceptable destinations is because he knows TOR won't trade him there— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) June 22, 2015 This just makes me want to see the trade even more. I love when Bob is wrong, like all the times he predicted Subban would get traded or not re-sign with the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Both my brothers are die hard Bruin fans . They hated losing Thorton. Hated losing Seguin. Refer to Louis Erikson as the bag of pucks that came back in the deal. But they do still rip/laugh at Kessel. Kessel gonna help the habs win a stanley cup???? lol Might it be that they cry about losing Thornton/Seguin and not Kessel because of the retrospective aspects of what happened after the trades/ returns of the trades, not necessarily because of the calibre of the player? It might be more about what was given up in the process. For Thronton they got back Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. This is a classic Quantity for quality trade, the type which many of us on this site have been armchair GM dreaming up for years now. Plex Parenteau Gilbert and a 3rd for Malkin anyone? Boston lost clearly. Essentially for Seguin, a budding superstar who had scored nearly 30 goals and 70 points in his sophomore year, they got Eriksson, a 6 or so year older 70 point player.. I suppose he fit the system better. Now, Eriksson is a 50 point player, Seguin is a bonafide superstar, as he was projected. Boston lost clearly again. For Kessel however, the return ended up being Seguin AND Hamilton. Boston won the trade (Had they kept Seguin). Kessel has played very well, although he's languished on a terrible hockey team, repeatedly in the bottom 5-10 teams. Kessel has become an easy player to make fun of, from being the last pick in the 2013(?) all-star game, to having a pudgy physique, to being terrible on camera. IF Kessel had essentially the same stats, but Boston won the trade, say the two firsts turned out to be Brett Connolly and Duncan Siemens (Went fairly close in the draft to Seguin/Hamilton) Boston would still be crying to this day. All I mean to say is they'd be laughing about Thorton too if the return turned out to be Crosby and Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm a little bemused by people who make fun of one of the most explosive and exciting pure offensive players in the sport. Yes, his contract is a genuine problem, and his intangibles don't seem to be great, but the fact is he's a gifted player. I sure hope none of the people crapping on his head are the same people who complain about 'boring hockey,' low-scoring games, and coaches obsessed with defensive systems. It does seem clear that Kessel will not be a Hab. That's fair enough because of the contract and the possibly damaging return. But you won't see me turning my nose up, as a fan of the sport, at that kind of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'd rather have signed jagr for the same one we signed that bum Brier, as well as the game bum we traded Briere for. His lack of 'intensity' and work effort is just cherry on top of Zillion dollar contract as well as feeding into Leaf rebuild that I would avoid. But 99.9% of us really don't have a clue what he is really like...similar to Jagr. Many HabFans see Jagr-Plekanec playin great together at world championship, Jagr is big, still productive and seems a perfect fit. But, Bergevin isn't ignorant to this stuff and must knows something we don't to avoid offering him a deal (wants too much $, Ego too big, wants term, too old slow-lazy, who knows exactly?) But, he may still take a run at Kessel, but doubt it. (see dlbalr post and seems even less likely and seems logical) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Would you want Ribeiro back. Kessel is just as much a punk as rewrite was - albeit more talented. There is no way way I'd want the Pillsbury Doughboy for 8 years. That would be as bad as e gomez trade. I'm a little bemused by people who make fun of one of the most explosive and exciting pure offensive players in the sport. Yes, his contract is a genuine problem, and his intangibles don't seem to be great, but the fact is he's a gifted player. I sure hope none of the people crapping on his head are the same people who complain about 'boring hockey,' low-scoring games, and coaches obsessed with defensive systems. It does seem clear that Kessel will not be a Hab. That's fair enough because of the contract and the possibly damaging return. But you won't see me turning my nose up, as a fan of the sport, at that kind of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Would you want Ribeiro back. Kessel is just as much a punk as rewrite was - albeit more talented. There is no way way I'd want the Pillsbury Doughboy for 8 years. That would be as bad as e gomez trade. Ribeiro is currently in court for sexually assaulting his 18 year old nanny. Kessel is nowhere near the punk Ribeiro is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'd rather have signed jagr for the same one we signed that bum Brier, as well as the game bum we traded Briere for. But Bergevin saw otherwise, WHY...we may never know? I am not a fan of Jagr, but agree he seemed like would of be nice fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Don't know or care what Ribeiro's current problems are, he was enough of a punk without the added legal problems he has added as he has aged and "matured". I see kessel as the same self indulgent punk that Ribeiro was during his time in Montreal. Ribeiro is currently in court for sexually assaulting his 18 year old nanny. Kessel is nowhere near the punk Ribeiro is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Don't know or care what Ribeiro's current problems are, he was enough of a punk without the added legal problems he has added as he has aged and "matured". I see kessel as the same self indulgent punk that Ribeiro was during his time in Montreal. Ribeiro was doing drugs and partying. Kessel... uhh... he snaps at reporters? He has a mediocre diet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, it's one of two things with Kessel He actually is as dumb as he sounds sometime, or he is high during some of his interviews. Ribeiro was doing drugs and partying. Kessel... uhh... he snaps at reporters? He has a mediocre diet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If memory serves, Ray Ferraro basically described Kessel as an idiot savant. And his take on it was (again, paraphrasing), let the idiot savant do his thing and stop nagging him about conditioning, etc.. You don't take Rain Man and try to turn him into a social butterfly; similar, you don't take Phil Kessel and try to turn him into some blood-and-guts team leader and dedicated fitness fanatic and two-way behemoth. You take his 35+ goals and blazing speed and move on with your life. I say this, though, without necessarily saying the Habs should take on either his contract or personality. They'd be negligent not to sniff around, but that's a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Might it be that they cry about losing Thornton/Seguin and not Kessel because of the retrospective aspects of what happened after the trades/ returns of the trades, not necessarily because of the calibre of the player? It might be more about what was given up in the process. For Thronton they got back Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. This is a classic Quantity for quality trade, the type which many of us on this site have been armchair GM dreaming up for years now. Plex Parenteau Gilbert and a 3rd for Malkin anyone? Boston lost clearly. Essentially for Seguin, a budding superstar who had scored nearly 30 goals and 70 points in his sophomore year, they got Eriksson, a 6 or so year older 70 point player.. I suppose he fit the system better. Now, Eriksson is a 50 point player, Seguin is a bonafide superstar, as he was projected. Boston lost clearly again. For Kessel however, the return ended up being Seguin AND Hamilton. Boston won the trade (Had they kept Seguin). Kessel has played very well, although he's languished on a terrible hockey team, repeatedly in the bottom 5-10 teams. Kessel has become an easy player to make fun of, from being the last pick in the 2013(?) all-star game, to having a pudgy physique, to being terrible on camera. IF Kessel had essentially the same stats, but Boston won the trade, say the two firsts turned out to be Brett Connolly and Duncan Siemens (Went fairly close in the draft to Seguin/Hamilton) Boston would still be crying to this day. All I mean to say is they'd be laughing about Thorton too if the return turned out to be Crosby and Subban. Like this post. Very informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If memory serves, Ray Ferraro basically described Kessel as an idiot savant. And his take on it was (again, paraphrasing), let the idiot savant do his thing and stop nagging him about conditioning, etc.. You don't take Rain Man and try to turn him into a social butterfly; similar, you don't take Phil Kessel and try to turn him into some blood-and-guts team leader and dedicated fitness fanatic and two-way behemoth. You take his 35+ goals and blazing speed and move on with your life. I say this, though, without necessarily saying the Habs should take on either his contract or personality. They'd be negligent not to sniff around, but that's a different matter. Ray is good , I like him. But Kessel aint exactly Brett Hull or Jarri Kurri. He scored 25 goals last year. woohoo......ten more than Lars Eller. Over every eight game period he scored one more goal than Lars. his line was a combined -102 not good enough to over look everything else that sucks about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ray is good , I like him. But Kessel aint exactly Brett Hull or Jarri Kurri. He scored 25 goals last year. woohoo......ten more than Lars Eller. Over every eight game period he scored one more goal than Lars. his line was a combined -102 not good enough to over look everything else that sucks about him. I agree he has downside, but taking his absolute worst season is not the way to judge any player. Kessel is a proven PPG player. He's an elite offensive force. We needn't deny that to argue that the Habs still shouldn't take him on in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Fitness and conditioning do affect a player's performance as he gets older. Lafleur in his younger days could smoke a pack a day, drink booze and go clubbing and still score 59 goals and put up 100 points. This was when most players weren't in top physical condition all year. Goal scores generally see a decline st 28 or 29. Ones who don't take care of themselves sooner, in this era when players are in top physical condition in training camp. Whit his conditioning, I don't see him skating like he did and putting up the numbers he has by the time he hits 30. Kessel is not the type of player you want to sign for 8 years just as he is supposed to peak. He has way more speed than Heatley, but I think in a couple of years, we will see a Heatley type decline. Jagr because of his conditioning is able to play into his 40's. Kessel will probably be done on his early 30's and no longer as fast in another 2 it 3 years. If memory serves, Ray Ferraro basically described Kessel as an idiot savant. And his take on it was (again, paraphrasing), let the idiot savant do his thing and stop nagging him about conditioning, etc.. You don't take Rain Man and try to turn him into a social butterfly; similar, you don't take Phil Kessel and try to turn him into some blood-and-guts team leader and dedicated fitness fanatic and two-way behemoth. You take his 35+ goals and blazing speed and move on with your life. I say this, though, without necessarily saying the Habs should take on either his contract or personality. They'd be negligent not to sniff around, but that's a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I agree with Chic 100%..If we land Kessel, we take his 35-40 goals and nobody sings Kumbaya in the dressing room anymore haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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