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PK's dumb


Neech
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Low hockey IQ. Bad decision-making. Brainfarts and gaffes. Doesn't seem to take a cerebral approach. This has nothing to do with how he is away from the rink, in the room, in interviews or in the media, or playing a game of scrabble at home. Purely on the ice. PK's dumb. Not to say he isn't an excellent player, because he IS! Most nights he is one of or among the most dominant players out there. But his athletic gifts were not paired with equal resources between the ears. On one end of the spectrum we have guys like Lidstrom, Keith, even our aging Markov, who throughout his career has made the most of his rather limited physical abilities. Towards the other end we have PK, and this is a problem, because I can't think of a dumb player leading his team to a Cup.

I'll ramp back the hyperbole a bit at this point, because I don't think he's horribly dumb, like the worst in the league or even on the team. He's mostly reliable. Just that it matters a lot more because he's by far our best player and he's a defender to boot. This could be a separate thread, but maybe he's naturally a winger - an excellent passer and shooter, a powerful skater and a strong frame; perhaps these skills would be best used closer to goal. But I digress. His position as a D makes his mental gaffes more frequent and more costly. Ovechkin is a player who is dominant physically but has questionable hockey sense when his team doesn't have the puck - but he makes up for it with dozens of goals, and he's sheltered on the wing. And he hasn't gone three rounds deep yet.

Is PK dumb? Can a team led by a dumb player win a Cup, especially if he plays defense?

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Again my eye test disagrees with you. What I see from PK right now is a guy who is doing everything he can to get the team out of the slump. Maybe he's trying a bit too hard in recent weeks and that has him taking extra chances, but I don't see that as being dumb, in fact I see it as quite the opposite.

PK has 14 points in the last 14 games, the Habs have scored 28 goals in those games. Complaining about PK right now is the thing that seems to be dumb to me.

When the team was going well and scoring lots, and PK didn't need to put it all on his back he played smart defensive hockey.

I don't think it has anything to do with what he's capable of.

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I actually thought of this long before our slump. I agree that PK's our best guy on the ice, and he's the only one with the athletic gifts to be a force out there through sheer will-power.

There are a handful of attributes that make a good hockey player - skating, physical toughness, mental toughness, skill, etc and hockey IQ is one of them. I believe PK is a big positive in all of those except hockey IQ. Maybe he's not a net negative, but it's just not his strength. I realize there may be a tendency to over-criticize him simply because he's relied upon so much, but I just see him making dumb plays too often.

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I think PK is actually very intelligent, on and off the ice.

Most of his "gaffes" are because he is trying to do too much, and cover too many people his team mates don't pick up.

Best player on the team.

This year showing beyond a doubt that he is a stellar defenseman at both ends of the ice and will be a contender for the Norris until he is old and gray.

That is the end.

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I think that Subban is the one player during this whole slump that's been beyond reproach. He does make some gaffes like any other defenseman, but I wouldn't slight him for not being perfect.

I think the issue is his ice time. PK plays a high intensity game, and he's playing as many minutes as someone like Ryan Suter, who has a different approach.

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Guest Stogey24

I love how a negative thread about Subban gets a +1, but if anyone even mentioned something like this about baby boy Plekanec, there would be hell to pay.

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I love how a negative thread about Subban gets a +1, but if anyone even mentioned something like this about baby boy Plekanec, there would be hell to pay.

Only complaint I have about Plekanec is his incapacity to perform a one-timer shot on a 2 on 1.

That being said, there goes the +1 about PK being dumb.

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Beaulieu with wide open empty net, misses net and hits goalie who is to the side of net...basically sums up Habs of past couple months.

(You could see Galchenyuk licking his chops when he saw Nate the Great wide the F open in front of net, got the puck and set him up perfect for gift wrapped goal.)

Not sure Subban is lacking hockey IQ, but his zero effort (give a F meter) backchecking and over handling of puck is irritating. But, on a crap roster like this he is doing his part offensively for sure.

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Pk Subban is a charismatic franchise defenceman. Easily the single best position player on this team in every facet of the game and one of the very best players in hockey. If he's not a superstar. he's very close. And he will go down as one of the great Montreal Canadiens defenceman.

He makes mistakes. So does ANY player who is creative, dynamic, and willing to take risks in order to make things happen. That's what it means to have a star player. Larry Robinson made mistakes too.

Perhaps Montreal fans have forgotten this, since we haven't had a player of PK's calibre since Guy Lafleur.

If you ask me, the weakness in PK's game is his first stride. By the second stride, he is nearly unstoppable, but that first stride is choppy and often raises alarm when it looks like he's not going to be able to pull away from a checker or get out of a jam. I think that if his first stride were not so dodgy, this myth of him as a 'high risk defender' would never have been started in the first place. I never found him especially high-risk, not even when he was a rookie, because I noticed right away that he got himself out of jams about 99% of the time. His rep has been a victim of a ridiculously risk-averse coaching culture.

Of all the things we could be posting and arguing about, PK Subban is LAST. We are lucky to have one of the most exciting and effective players in hockey, and we get to watch him, hopefully, for the next decade.

Enjoy it.

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If you ask me, the weakness in PK's game is his first stride. By the second stride, he is nearly unstoppable, but that first stride is choppy and often raises alarm when it looks like he's not going to be able to pull away from a checker or get out of a jam. I think that if his first stride were not so dodgy, this myth of him as a 'high risk defender' would never have been started in the first place. I never found him especially high-risk, not even when he was a rookie, because I noticed right away that he got himself out of jams about 99% of the time. His rep has been a victim of a ridiculously risk-averse coaching culture.

This speaks to a lack of awareness on the ice. Instead of making a simple play he complicates things by trying to skate away with the puck. We see him do this all the time in the defensive zone, and it's a high risk/low reward play. Most importantly, this type of game does not age well. He'll lose a stride around 30, and won't be able to get away with it as much. Maybe he'll be able to adjust, but it would be better if he was making a smart play all along.

And let's not forget that Babcock was another coach who didn't trust PK to be reliable out there.

Look, I get the gripe that he has been our best player this year and he's the least of our problems, but this is a flaw I've seen in him BEFORE the slump. Before this season. I don't think smarts are a strong point for him, and I think that is a key point for your very best players in the 3rd and 4th round of the playoffs.

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He makes an occasional boneheaded decision, but he's our best player damn near every night. PK is also the guy who is trying his hardest every night...long after most of his teammates have slumped their shoulders, and are going through the motions while having a self-pity party.

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Again my eye test disagrees with you. What I see from PK right now is a guy who is doing everything he can to get the team out of the slump. Maybe he's trying a bit too hard in recent weeks and that has him taking extra chances, but I don't see that as being dumb, in fact I see it as quite the opposite.

PK has 14 points in the last 14 games, the Habs have scored 28 goals in those games. Complaining about PK right now is the thing that seems to be dumb to me.

When the team was going well and scoring lots, and PK didn't need to put it all on his back he played smart defensive hockey.

I don't think it has anything to do with what he's capable of.

I agree with Commandant on this one.

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