What Are The Habs' Needs?

[habschris]

Here are a list of a few things i think the habs need to improve the team.

1. 4 new defensemen. I would keep Markov and Komisarek This teeam needs some D who can move the puck and win some 1 on 1 battles.

2. Trading some dead weight forwards. The current team has too many of the same kind of players. Bonk, Sundstrom, Bulis, Higgins, Plekanec, Ribiero and dagenais. They are all pretty soft, i do like the work ethic of plekanec, higgins and Bulis.

3. A new coaching staff. I'm not convinced about Julien. He seems to bench certain players for the same mistakes his veterans make all night. Green has been there for several years and i have seen little improvemant in the D. Markov excluded. I think he can be much better as well.

4. A real tough guy. Needed as an extra forward not to play every night but to play against teams that push this team around.Which lately seems to be everyone. Worrell, Oliwa can be had for next to nothing.

5. Real team leadership. The team does seem to play harder with Koivu in the line up. Other then that i'm not convinced about Rivet, he doesn't show up and play hard everynight. He also seems to make excuses when they lose. I think i read a few quotes by him on this board about that. I don't know who wears the other A.

[Tony]

I would just say right now some players who never get injured

[simonus]

Here are a list of a few things i think the habs need to improve the team.

1. 4 new defensemen. I would keep Markov and Komisarek This teeam needs some D who can move the puck and win some 1 on 1 battles.

2. Trading some dead weight forwards. The current team has too many of the same kind of players. Bonk, Sundstrom, Bulis, Higgins, Plekanec, Ribiero and dagenais. They are all pretty soft, i do like the work ethic of plekanec, higgins and Bulis.

3. A new coaching staff. I'm not convinced about Julien. He seems to bench certain players for the same mistakes his veterans make all night. Green has been there for several years and i have seen little improvemant in the D. Markov excluded. I think he can be much better as well.

4. A real tough guy. Needed as an extra forward not to play every night but to play against teams that push this team around.Which lately seems to be everyone. Worrell, Oliwa can be had for next to nothing.

5. Real team leadership. The team does seem to play harder with Koivu in the line up. Other then that i'm not convinced about Rivet, he doesn't show up and play hard everynight. He also seems to make excuses when they lose. I think i read a few quotes by him on this board about that. I don't know who wears the other A.

1. Rivet has been playing well, Souray is getting back to form and I am happy to have him. Dandenault ain't going anywhere and he is a fine depth man. Bouillon is not quite good enough and will only slow down and we need 1 more, preferably top-2.... but this team seems a little loathe to pick up...

2.I dont see how Ribs, Bonk, and Plex are the same player... I'd say each is completely different. Soft O-man, laid-back 2 way and fire breathing pick-pocket 2 way. I think I have a pretty consistent record of wanting to toss ribs and dags, but i generally like the rest. Sundstrom and Bulis are great if you expect them to play on the bottom lines.

3. I am generally concerned about Julien, but we have to remember that when he had the full team, we won. His career record is pretty good, and he seems to have a decent temperment. His management of the rookies is suspect, but he's in a bad way as far as walking wounded and overplaying the kids, through mistakes as the team loses is also not the best way to instill confidence. Perhaps it is better for these kids to feel that they are not completely part of the bad play...

4. I'm down with tougher guys to a degree, Murray seems hard, maybe Ivanans can be on this team when you have the full complement. Maybe Ivanans is tough enough, supposed to be very fast. You want Barnaby? I would enjoy that.

5. I have no way to respond to this. How could I (or anybody) know what goes on behind closed doors...

[JMMR]

Zednik wears the other A and he for sure does not deserve it. But I don’t really know who does. The first name that comes to mind is Markov.

The Dee has not had many games to play together as a full unit in front of a 100% healthy starting goaltender.

But as long as this team makes the playoffs I will be happy because any hockey fan knows it is a different playing field when you play the same team night in and night out. Personally I think this team can be coached well in a position like that Julien did construct the demise of the Bruins in 03 04.

[David B]

Here are a list of a few things i think the habs need to improve the team.

1. 4 new defensemen. I would keep Markov and Komisarek This teeam needs some D who can move the puck and win some 1 on 1 battles.

2. Trading some dead weight forwards. The current team has too many of the same kind of players. Bonk, Sundstrom, Bulis, Higgins, Plekanec, Ribiero and dagenais. They are all pretty soft, i do like the work ethic of plekanec, higgins and Bulis.

3. A new coaching staff. I'm not convinced about Julien. He seems to bench certain players for the same mistakes his veterans make all night. Green has been there for several years and i have seen little improvemant in the D. Markov excluded. I think he can be much better as well.

4. A real tough guy. Needed as an extra forward not to play every night but to play against teams that push this team around.Which lately seems to be everyone. Worrell, Oliwa can be had for next to nothing.

5. Real team leadership. The team does seem to play harder with Koivu in the line up. Other then that i'm not convinced about Rivet, he doesn't show up and play hard everynight. He also seems to make excuses when they lose. I think i read a few quotes by him on this board about that. I don't know who wears the other A.

1. New defenseman maybe. I understand that Komisarek has the potential to be a star in this league but as of right now I find he is too often caught out of position, mostly from trying to land a big hit. Once his positional play improves he will be a great anchor for our D for the long term. Bouillon is the only one that I would look at replacing.

2. The only dead weight forwards that you have listed there are Ribeiro and Dagenais. I too am in favour of giving these two away if it came to that.

3. You need to watch the games a little more closely then if you don't see improvement in our D. Would you rather have Breezy, Dykhuis & Traverse back?

4. Yes I do agree with you on that one but rather than a one-dimensional goon line Worrell or Oliwa why not hope for a McCarty type.

5. No offense but this point has to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on a hockey forum. Aside from Saku he IS the leader of this club and I'll bet there are 29 other teams that would love Rivet in their lineup. Giving the 2nd 'A' to Markov or Begin would be my idea.

[mineral]

Concerning leadership...

Kovalev has had his head in the right place for the last while, showing an example when it comes to work ethic and confidence. He wouldn't hurt with an A on his shoulder at this point.

I can't say more about Begin either. He does it all and deserves it more than most.

[RobRock]

Here are a list of a few things i think the habs need to improve the team.

1. 4 new defensemen. I would keep Markov and Komisarek This teeam needs some D who can move the puck and win some 1 on 1 battles.

2. Trading some dead weight forwards. The current team has too many of the same kind of players. Bonk, Sundstrom, Bulis, Higgins, Plekanec, Ribiero and dagenais. They are all pretty soft, i do like the work ethic of plekanec, higgins and Bulis.

3. A new coaching staff. I'm not convinced about Julien. He seems to bench certain players for the same mistakes his veterans make all night. Green has been there for several years and i have seen little improvemant in the D. Markov excluded. I think he can be much better as well.

4. A real tough guy. Needed as an extra forward not to play every night but to play against teams that push this team around.Which lately seems to be everyone. Worrell, Oliwa can be had for next to nothing.

5. Real team leadership. The team does seem to play harder with Koivu in the line up. Other then that i'm not convinced about Rivet, he doesn't show up and play hard everynight. He also seems to make excuses when they lose. I think i read a few quotes by him on this board about that. I don't know who wears the other A.

1. I don't know if they need 4, but they could use a better offensive defenseman for the second powerplay unit. Aside from Markov, Komisarek and Bouillon, it seems like everybody else in very inconsistent.

2. I didn't think much of him at first, because he'd been languishing in the minors since he graduated from junior, but I really like Garth Murray's play. He's a perfect compliment to Steve Begin, and it's probably because of him that Begin was moved up to the second line the last couple of games. I think he's realized that he's not a 60-80 point guy, and management realizes it too.

3. Green has done a great job with both Markov and Komisarek. They need a boost killing penalties though, as it has cost them more than a couple of wins - i.e. both Leafs losses. When Carbonneau was back there, the PK unit wasn't top ten, but I don't think it was bottom ten either, where it is now.

4. I don't know about an actual tough guy, but they really could use a more physical presence up front, especially on the second line. There's no real power forward on the roster, or even in the system for taht matter. If Gainey ever got the chance to get a legitimate power forward, one who backs defenders up in the corners and coming down the wing, it would add a lot of scoring chances for the team.

5. Aside from Koivu, there's a lack of real leadership on the team, period. Kovalev is a leader for Markov and Perezhogin, of course, but I don't know that the rest of the team sees him as a leader just yet. There's no question he's respected, but I don't know if he's followed the same way other captains are. You don't have to be the most talented star to be a leader. As well, since the assistants are the guys talking to the officials, sometimes you choose them based on their ability to communicate with the refs, and not just their affect in the dressing room.

[mathieu30]

Traverse? Those where the days, haha. A new coaching staff? Gotta keep Melanson. OK we need some offense & leadership, let's make Jean Béliveau head coach.

[dark_faerie87]

4. I don't know about an actual tough guy, but they really could use a more physical presence up front, especially on the second line. There's no real power forward on the roster, or even in the system for taht matter. If Gainey ever got the chance to get a legitimate power forward, one who backs defenders up in the corners and coming down the wing, it would add a lot of scoring chances for the team.

Isn't Latendresse supposed to be in the mold of a power forward?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Not really sure what Montreal's needs are. However, I'm sure Pierre Gauthier, Andre Savard and Gainey know. Which brings me to the report of this tidbit of info:

From Spector's: DENVER POST: Adrian Dater reported yesterday a scout from the Montreal Canadiens attended the Colorado Avalanche's game on Monday. Also, the Habs don't play the Avs until January 11th. Hmmm.

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_3346429

IMO: Rivet should be kept too. He's the unknown of the bunch. He's also a valuble asset to a cup run. Yes, he is not a star but he shouldn't be underestimated. I bet Pittsburgh would love to have him. Every team needs a "Sean Hill" calibre type player and Rivet is in that mould.

Edited December 28, 2005 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[habschris]

Not really sure what Montreal's needs are. However, I'm sure Pierre Gauthier, Andre Savard and Gainey know. Which brings me to the report of this tidbit of info:

From Spector's: DENVER POST: Adrian Dater reported yesterday a scout from the Montreal Canadiens attended the Colorado Avalanche's game on Monday. Also, the Habs don't play the Avs until January 11th. Hmmm.

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_3346429

IMO: Rivet should be kept too. He's the unknown of the bunch. He's also a valuble asset to a cup run. Yes, he is not a star but he shouldn't be underestimated. I bet Pittsburgh would love to have him. Every team needs a "Sean Hill" calibre type player and Rivet is in that mould.

The point i was trying to make is the D is a real problem for this team. Someone mentioned i should watch more of the games, i have seen almost all of them, since i have the NHL package and i'm out of market i get all the habs games. To say Rivet and Souray are playing well is just not True. Both of them have played well at times, they both continue to very inconsistant, turn over the puck, lose 1 on 1 battles all the time. Stupid penalties. So the major mistake Komi made against the thrashers was bad, and he sat alot for it. However Rivet's inability to get the puck out twicw cost them the first goal and he was rewarded with more ice time. Since Komi had to sit after his mistake. I like Dandy, he brings the team speed and can play upfront. The point about the forwards i listed is they all go un noticed and are soft. I know Ribiero has more offensive skills then the others but 5 on 5 this year just awfull. The 2nd line he plays on normally is like minue 17 or something. I'm saying changes need to made here in the future first, the D needs to be addressed. They play the whole night in there zone, i think that's part of the reason they don't score much. Injuries don't help either. The future of this team is a few years away with good prospects already playing and several in the wings. My concern is there are no D-men in that group.

[MAK]

they need carbonneau as a head coach but that won't happen

they need a bonafide left winger to play on the second wing: higgins' not ready, bulis doesn't get anything happend and dagenais..no comments What they need to, is players who can get the puck from the corners

[KoZed]

1. Totaly agree on that one. The Habs' defense is attrocious. Its easy for the opposition to exploit Souray & Rivet by using a little speed, since both creates horrible turnovers when rushed. Its also easy to exploit Bouillon using a little skill & size. Dandeneault isn't too solid either.

2. Agreed here too. Habs need more versatility in its lineup. Our offense it too easy to shut down because we have too many one-dimensionnal players, and their dimension is the same.

3. Given what Julien achieved so far with this team (compared to what it was when he took it), I think he deserves a chance to show he can turn it around. You can't mention point 1 and 2 and not admit that Julien doesnt have much to work with. What I'll point out though, is that the Habs are not losing because Julien isnt a good coach, their losing because the players dont execute the game plan. Its just seems as though Julien's message isnt getting through anymore. It looks as if the core players have given up on the team.

4. I'm not sure a tough guy is necessary. If you had more grit and character from your core players, you're not supposed to need a tough guy.

5. Leadership is character with experience. I'd settle with character for now. There's not enough character in this team. Its been the case for far too long, too. This team isnt united and ready to fight all the time.

All in all, I think its time that Gainey starts tweaking the core a little. Souray, Rivet, Zednik, Ribeiro, Sundrstrom and Bonk should all be trading baits to attract a type of player who can carry some offensive + character duties, preferably a defenseman. Habs need another well rounded player, who can anchor the rest of the lineup.

[habschris]

Well atleast someone agrees with me a bit. I have always said the core is the main problem and lack of D. Let's face it, other then Markov the D are all 4 and 5 guys on 85% of the other teams in the NHL. The core players as mentioned above have been here for years and the play has always been the same. For the last 3 coaches. If THeo wasn't the best player on the ice, the Habs never won. I think Gainey is aware of this and is willing to make changes but who really has a high trade value? Pairing zednick with rivet or souray should get us back a decent D-man. Other smaller changes are needed as well.

[RobRock]

Isn't Latendresse supposed to be in the mold of a power forward?

He wasn't even on the radar going into training camp, but he certainly is now. He's certainly got the size, at 18 or 19, to be a power forward in junior, and he may grow into an NHL power forward, but there's a pretty wide gap between the two. I certainly wouldn't put him in with Bertuzzi, Forsberg and Thornton before he's played an NHL game. That's why I say they don't have one in the system. It's really too early to know if Latendresse is going to be used as a skill forward or a power forward, in the strictest sense.

[ch_nl]

Here are a list of a few things i think the habs need to improve the team.

1. 4 new defensemen. I would keep Markov and Komisarek This teeam needs some D who can move the puck and win some 1 on 1 battles.

2. Trading some dead weight forwards. The current team has too many of the same kind of players. Bonk, Sundstrom, Bulis, Higgins, Plekanec, Ribiero and dagenais. They are all pretty soft, i do like the work ethic of plekanec, higgins and Bulis.

3. A new coaching staff. I'm not convinced about Julien. He seems to bench certain players for the same mistakes his veterans make all night. Green has been there for several years and i have seen little improvemant in the D. Markov excluded. I think he can be much better as well.

4. A real tough guy. Needed as an extra forward not to play every night but to play against teams that push this team around.Which lately seems to be everyone. Worrell, Oliwa can be had for next to nothing.

5. Real team leadership. The team does seem to play harder with Koivu in the line up. Other then that i'm not convinced about Rivet, he doesn't show up and play hard everynight. He also seems to make excuses when they lose. I think i read a few quotes by him on this board about that. I don't know who wears the other A.

1. Agree. Komisarek is the best defenceman the Habs has ever had in many, many years. His +/- is execellent and he does everything right. Craig Rivet maybe could be bought out or traded for Peter Worell?

2. Agree. Again. Higgins, Bulis and Plekanec has bad attitudes. How did they become NHL'ers? They should have stayed where someone found them. Sundström is dead weight and not at all important to the team. They only one that I don't get is Bonk. Why would they trade him? Maybe if we could get a package with Sidney Crosby, Andre Fleury and Evegeni Malklin... But not for less!

3. Yes. Julien has been a NHL coach for many, many years and should know better. Let's get Doug Jarvis. Or why not re-hire Therrien?

4. A tough guy is what this team needs. Imagine a team with 8 cloned Peter Worell. Imagine two Peter Worell chasing Marian Gaborik and then hook the shit out of him! Sure they would get two minutes each but it would be really cool.

5. Yeah! Sako Koivu is a weak leader. I heard that they call him "Chicken Sako" in his hometown just outside Paris.

[Cataclaw]

5. Yeah! Sako Koivu is a weak leader. I heard that they call him "Chicken Sako" in his hometown just outside Paris.

The most absurd statement i've ever seen on this board.

[mathieu30]

The most absurd statement i've ever seen on this board.

Amen, thats crap, but I think chnl is joking é. By the way, his hometown just outside Paris? Is he living in Belgium? Paris > Turku: 2000 km.

Edited December 29, 2005 by mathieu30

[simonus]

guys... it was a joke...

[Prime Minister Koivu]

We need a slap in the face shake up. I mean something that will have the hockey world buzzing for weeks.

I think our problem is more than a talent issue. Attutude is wrong.....from the top to the bottom. How did Calgary do so well last playoffs?

Any and all players or coaches with a big head, chip on the shoulder or selfish attitude must go. The Habs have atleast 4 players with this problem. (you make your own list)

I don't care how good they are, I don't care how much the fans love them, they need to go.

I like Gainey alot but he doesn't have the balls to do it.

[CoRvInA]

I had a vision!!!

a vision into the future...

Guys Not to worry... This might be of no surprise for some of you but allow me to explain we know we might not be getting the cup this year.. but were gonna get something else at the end of this season!

and it makes so much sense! I even Think Gainey and co have been planning it all along!... He's not gonna get rid of anyone yet!... he's gonna be patient and make sure who's up for grabs in the waiver line

What is our forte? ... well still sort of.... (between the pipes) right? and what are teams like Tampa and others in desperate need off... and not many available out there!... and what does a team like TB have we want... lets face it were not gonna trade the likes of Bonk SunnyD or anyone else for any forward or Dman.. But I would easily see a trade go down in the likes of Theo for Lecavalier or Richards or St louis! plus a draft pick 3 or 4th depending who we get. Theo is an Excellent goalie and still got years ahead of him but we've got some talent in the making ... in a year max it will be now or never!

Just imagine next year Lecavalier (or Stlouis) Koivu Kovalev then Ryder Latendresse "Perez (kosti)" and then Higgins Plekanek Bonk (Bulis) and 4th Begin Murray "(Kosti (Bulis)"

Dreaming ... the future looks great! guys dont worry!

[simonus]

I had a vision!!!

a vision into the future...

Guys Not to worry... This might be of no surprise for some of you but allow me to explain we know we might not be getting the cup this year.. but were gonna get something else at the end of this season!

and it makes so much sense! I even Think Gainey and co have been planning it all along!... He's not gonna get rid of anyone yet!... he's gonna be patient and make sure who's up for grabs in the waiver line

What is our forte? ... well still sort of.... (between the pipes) right? and what are teams like Tampa and others in desperate need off... and not many available out there!... and what does a team like TB have we want... lets face it were not gonna trade the likes of Bonk SunnyD or anyone else for any forward or Dman.. But I would easily see a trade go down in the likes of Theo for Lecavalier or Richards or St louis! plus a draft pick 3 or 4th depending who we get. Theo is an Excellent goalie and still got years ahead of him but we've got some talent in the making ... in a year max it will be now or never!

Just imagine next year Lecavalier (or Stlouis) Koivu Kovalev then Ryder Latendresse "Perez (kosti)" and then Higgins Plekanek Bonk (Bulis) and 4th Begin Murray "(Kosti (Bulis)"

Dreaming ... the future looks great! guys dont worry!

i'm starting to think people should have to put a realism score on their trade ideas/prognostications. Lets say a 10 pt scale. 10 pts is like I believe this is completely realistic/it will happen tomorrow.

1 pt is like I think this thread is ridiculous and I am illustrating it by showing the horrid conclusion inherent in your logic.

I feel I usually can read how serious people are being, but sometimes I cant tell the difference between 3 and 7 (see above).

[CoRvInA]

i'm starting to think people should have to put a realism score on their trade ideas/prognostications. Lets say a 10 pt scale. 10 pts is like I believe this is completely realistic/it will happen tomorrow.

1 pt is like I think this thread is ridiculous and I am illustrating it by showing the horrid conclusion inherent in your logic.

I feel I usually can read how serious people are being, but sometimes I cant tell the difference between 3 and 7 (see above).

its more a 5 hehehe I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind BG calm (or ) TOO CALM reaction time!

but for the 5 points ... I really think THeo is the only player we could trade to get some star quality (assuming we dont have enough cap space to get another Kovalev type player)

In sum: My honest belief! It all depends on

1) the habs making the playoffs.. 2) Who else doesn't make it and wants to relieve some dough! (like Kovy) and 3) if Theo shines to at least the second round playoffs! thats it!

on the side some waiver action could be lucky ... and our cap will make that happen!

[Peter Puck]

guys... it was a joke...

That's the most absurd statement I've ever seen on this board. [Edit: Realism score = 1]

chnl posts an insightful analysis of how to fix the Habs weaknesses and he is attacked (and called a joke!) for getting Saku's home town a little misplaced. Is this a hockey forum or a geography forum?

Edited December 30, 2005 by Peter Puck