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Should we replace Melanson?

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Just a thought....

Is Ronnie disrupting our goalies's style of play?

I mean, look at Theo, Huet and now Price.

They all started great here in Montreal, only to become inconsistent over the years :blink:

I may be wrong, but unless a goalie really sucks, you shouldn't alter his style with your own techniques.

Look at Brodeur, he plays mostly with his instinct.

Let's hope Halak won't get the " Melancon virus "

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I think that we should fire the whole coaching staff not named Lever.

And yes, Melancon should be the first guy to go.

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Isn't it the other way around?

Theo, Hackett, Garon, Huet, etc, were nobody before Melancon started woking on them... and now that they are away from him, are not so good anymore.

What I do dislike though is that Price is WAY LESS stand-up than he used to. I loved the fact that he was kinda half bred between standup and butterfly... now he's 100% butterfly which is, in turn, maybe the cause of 50% of his weak goals.

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Really? He turned Huet and Aebischer into respectable goalies. He made Theo far more than what he really is. Hackett was a real number one in Montreal and never was anywhere else. Every goalie lets in soft goals now and then. Trying to compare any goalie with Roy or Brodeur will inevitably lead to disappointment. Then again, for those who really knew Roy's career, he was always prone to letting in a softie, his big thing was that he almost never got rattled and his skills were able to cash the ego checks his mouth delivered most of the time.

From what I understand, Price played a pretty good game and gave the Habs the chance to win, when really they didn't have any right to be close. A look at the shots pretty much confirms that statement. Is he still too far in his crease, still dropping too soon? Probably. But let's be honest here, it's still only a short while after Carbo said he'd be going with Halak until Halak fell apart. This is a goalie we're talking about, the most fragile character on any hockey team by a longshot. That he came out last night and made some fantastic saves and allowed the team to escape with a point it didn't deserve, well I think that's more than good enough.

Plus, what is he, 20? 21? I *think* he still has a little time.

My impression is that Melanson has taken a kid who's struggled in the last while and has allowed him to make it back to this point. Fundamentally, the kid still looks pretty good, most of his issues seem to be based on confidence. Melanson can't do a helluva lot with that other than continue working with him and praising him when he's doing the right thing.

Melanson would be the *last* person on that coaching staff I'd get rid of. That includes Gainey. In my opinion, especially with the junk he's had to work with in the past, he's been a miracle worker. Garon? On a huge rise in Montreal and then *poof* obscurity. Huet. Etc. List goes on.

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It wouldn't have anything to do with a crappy defense that gives up 40 plus shots a night would it?

Put these goalies on the Devils. I think you'll notice a difference.

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Yeah, a 21 one year old star goalie prospect has lost a couple games recently. What a failed experiment.

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Really? He turned Huet and Aebischer into respectable goalies. He made Theo far more than what he really is. Hackett was a real number one in Montreal and never was anywhere else. Every goalie lets in soft goals now and then. Trying to compare any goalie with Roy or Brodeur will inevitably lead to disappointment. Then again, for those who really knew Roy's career, he was always prone to letting in a softie, his big thing was that he almost never got rattled and his skills were able to cash the ego checks his mouth delivered most of the time.

From what I understand, Price played a pretty good game and gave the Habs the chance to win, when really they didn't have any right to be close. A look at the shots pretty much confirms that statement. Is he still too far in his crease, still dropping too soon? Probably. But let's be honest here, it's still only a short while after Carbo said he'd be going with Halak until Halak fell apart. This is a goalie we're talking about, the most fragile character on any hockey team by a longshot. That he came out last night and made some fantastic saves and allowed the team to escape with a point it didn't deserve, well I think that's more than good enough.

Plus, what is he, 20? 21? I *think* he still has a little time.

My impression is that Melanson has taken a kid who's struggled in the last while and has allowed him to make it back to this point. Fundamentally, the kid still looks pretty good, most of his issues seem to be based on confidence. Melanson can't do a helluva lot with that other than continue working with him and praising him when he's doing the right thing.

Melanson would be the *last* person on that coaching staff I'd get rid of. That includes Gainey. In my opinion, especially with the junk he's had to work with in the past, he's been a miracle worker. Garon? On a huge rise in Montreal and then *poof* obscurity. Huet. Etc. List goes on.

Now hold on a minute. In Montreal, Aebischer played himself out of the league. Garon actually became a starter in Los Angeles. Huet was given a chance here, how much Melancon had to do with that, we'll never know. As for Hackett, was he really the coveted #1 every team wants? I seem to recall tons of debate on why Hackett played as much as he did. Let's not dismiss the idea so easily. Melancon isn't the Toe Blake of goalie coaches.

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No! If I was a GM the first two people I would hire: Melancon and sandrine balthazard

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Now hold on a minute. In Montreal, Aebischer played himself out of the league. Garon actually became a starter in Los Angeles. Huet was given a chance here, how much Melancon had to do with that, we'll never know. As for Hackett, was he really the coveted #1 every team wants? I seem to recall tons of debate on why Hackett played as much as he did. Let's not dismiss the idea so easily. Melancon isn't the Toe Blake of goalie coaches.

How well did Garon do in LA? They traded for him and he became a starter because of what he accomplished in Montreal.

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nah really, no need to beat that horse...

go beat the "defenseman coach" dead horse...

that's worth it.

our D sucks

our G try to do their best behind such a sucking D

and Rollie is really doing an ok job in the circumstances.

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I don't know. I (and none of you) know what is going on behind the scenes. It is hard to say that he is ruining goalies. Many goalies go through these struggles. One could argue that our main problem has been moving goalies up too fast. Some goalies are like fine wine.. undrinkable early, stunning later. We keep handing him kids to turn into number ones. Even Huet was a rookie despite his age.

Theo hasn't gotten any better either.

One thing that Theo and Price have in common.. it was easy as they knew nothing but success. Price was always calm, because he never struggled. Everyone is tough, until they are actually being shot at. :)

Price might be facing a crisis of confidence for the first time in his pro career. He might collapse, or he might take the next step from good goalie, to great goalie by coming out of it a tougher guy. It just might be painful for all involved until he comes out of it.

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I don't know. I (and none of you) know what is going on behind the scenes. It is hard to say that he is ruining goalies. Many goalies go through these struggles. One could argue that our main problem has been moving goalies up too fast. Some goalies are like fine wine.. undrinkable early, stunning later. We keep handing him kids to turn into number ones. Even Huet was a rookie despite his age.

Theo hasn't gotten any better either.

One thing that Theo and Price have in common.. it was easy as they knew nothing but success. Price was always calm, because he never struggled. Everyone is tough, until they are actually being shot at. :)

Price might be facing a crisis of confidence for the first time in his pro career. He might collapse, or he might take the next step from good goalie, to great goalie by coming out of it a tougher guy. It just might be painful for all involved until he comes out of it.

Price got the rep of being calm and able to get over bad goals after he gave up a brutal goal at the under 18s.

It was a goal that a ten year old should stop. I believe it cost Team Canada a game against Sweden.

He rebounded with two huge games. That is when I started hearing about his poise and demeanor.

He isn't going to collapse anymore than Luongo did as a 20-21 year old with the Isles or Fleury with the Pens.

If Mason struggles next season does it mean he was rushed this season? No, the guy has proven he is capable

of playing in the NHL, just like Price did last year.

Price struggled last season as well to the point where everybody on this board claimed he was rushed.

Then he returned from Hamilton and was lights out for 3 months.

Then he struggled in the playoffs and everybody said he was rushed.

Then he lit up the first three months of the season.

Then he struggled in February and once again he was rushed.

So imaginative in here. How about some new fresh analysis? The old stuff is getting old.

He is 21 years old. No 21 year old goaltender has ever entered the league and not suffered from

inconsistency. The great Patrick Roy was brutal for 2 seasons before he gained consistency under Pat Burns.

The NEW All-Time wins leader struggled after his 1st Stanley Cup registering the lowest SV% of his career as the whole Devils team missed the playoffs.

THEY ARE KIDS! This is what happens. Blaming them for the inevitable is asinine.

If Price is still stinking up shootouts, going on month long funks and generally struggling 2-3 years from

now then take your shots at him then. But it won't be because he was brought up to early, it will be because

he was overhyped to begin with.

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Price got the rep of being calm and able to get over bad goals after he gave up a brutal goal at the under 18s.

It was a goal that a ten year old should stop. I believe it cost Team Canada a game against Sweden.

He rebounded with two huge games. That is when I started hearing about his poise and demeanor.

He isn't going to collapse anymore than Luongo did as a 20-21 year old with the Isles or Fleury with the Pens.

If Mason struggles next season does it mean he was rushed this season? No, the guy has proven he is capable

of playing in the NHL, just like Price did last year.

Price struggled last season as well to the point where everybody on this board claimed he was rushed.

Then he returned from Hamilton and was lights out for 3 months.

Then he struggled in the playoffs and everybody said he was rushed.

Then he lit up the first three months of the season.

Then he struggled in February and once again he was rushed.

So imaginative in here. How about some new fresh analysis? The old stuff is getting old.

He is 21 years old. No 21 year old goaltender has ever entered the league and not suffered from

inconsistency. The great Patrick Roy was brutal for 2 seasons before he gained consistency under Pat Burns.

The NEW All-Time wins leader struggled after his 1st Stanley Cup registering the lowest SV% of his career as the whole Devils team missed the playoffs.

THEY ARE KIDS! This is what happens. Blaming them for the inevitable is asinine.

If Price is still stinking up shootouts, going on month long funks and generally struggling 2-3 years from

now then take your shots at him then. But it won't be because he was brought up to early, it will be because

he was overhyped to begin with.

Well, that is mostly my point. However, there is a big difference between rebounding from a bad goal or couple of games and rebounding from complete lack of confidence. When Price struggled last season he never looked in doubt of his skill. This year he is confused and frustrated, by his own admission. It show so the ice. This is much different then his previous challenges and it is for him to sink or swim. He is not the only one to go through this, as you pointed out.

As for being rushed, it is much harder to go through this as a young goalie with all this pressure on him. Last year when he struggled, we had Huet. It wasn't Price's problem to help the team. He worked on it on the AHL, and came back strong. That is a big difference to this year, where we NEED him to be number one. imo, it was risky to do this and he is paying for it. Fleury was the same... too much, too soon.

Roy was an aberration and even he struggled from time to time. The difference is he managed to get that first cup and the confidence and respect that went with it. People forget that he went into 86 with no expectations. It was "do your best". Price went in being told "its all up to you, you are the number 1 goalie, we expect you to deliver" That is incredible pressure for any young goalie.

Dumping Price now would be a mistake as I already said. He might come out of this an even better goalie. If people expect him to be as solid, mature, and consistent as Brodeur is now, then people are going to be disappointed. That is an unreasonable expectation. (which is why I was annoyed that Gainey expected it of him).

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no but maybe we should replace koivu with kovy.

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Just a thought....

Is Ronnie disrupting our goalies's style of play?

I mean, look at Theo, Huet and now Price.

They all started great here in Montreal, only to become inconsistent over the years :blink:

I may be wrong, but unless a goalie really sucks, you shouldn't alter his style with your own techniques.

Look at Brodeur, he plays mostly with his instinct.

Let's hope Halak won't get the " Melancon virus "

you mean the guy who CREATED hackett, theo, huet, garon and almost brought aebischer back to a respectable level?

is that really a question?

cause that's the closest you can come to a meaningless question, as far as im concerned.

maybe you could ask it otherwise:

no matter how good, how excellent, how godlike melancon has been with our past goalies, do you think maybe he's not having the same influence on price? do you think that maybe we should bring a guy like olaf kolzig who was Price's tutor in Tri City for a year (weird but true).

you see, that would be a good, respectful question that I would accept to answer to.

not that kind of bullcrap though. no.

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you mean the guy who CREATED hackett, theo, huet, garon and almost brought aebischer back to a respectable level?

is that really a question?

cause that's the closest you can come to a meaningless question, as far as im concerned.

maybe you could ask it otherwise:

no matter how good, how excellent, how godlike melancon has been with our past goalies, do you think maybe he's not having the same influence on price? do you think that maybe we should bring a guy like olaf kolzig who was Price's tutor in Tri City for a year (weird but true).

you see, that would be a good, respectful question that I would accept to answer to.

not that kind of bullcrap though. no.

Abby to a respectable level?

That's bullcrap :clap:

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you mean the guy who CREATED hackett, theo, huet, garon and almost brought aebischer back to a respectable level?

is that really a question?

cause that's the closest you can come to a meaningless question, as far as im concerned.

maybe you could ask it otherwise:

no matter how good, how excellent, how godlike melancon has been with our past goalies, do you think maybe he's not having the same influence on price? do you think that maybe we should bring a guy like olaf kolzig who was Price's tutor in Tri City for a year (weird but true).

you see, that would be a good, respectful question that I would accept to answer to.

not that kind of bullcrap though. no.

I think Price's problem has less to do with positioning and mechanics and such, and more to do with softness between his ears at this point.

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I think Price's problem has less to do with positioning and mechanics and such, and more to do with softness between his ears at this point.

Price may have suffered from sophmore jinx often found in athletes who had good first year. Suggestion of having someone like Kolzig work with him is actually quite interesting and worth consideration by Montreal Management.

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Even if comparing doesnt always bring any valid point in the progression of Price we may want to take a look at Marc-André Fleury dedigree. While i think Fleury ethic of work seems above Price, the performance they have put in their first years arent the same because they didnt have the same kind of team in front of them but they can be comparable. While Fleury was drafted first pick in 2003 if im not mistaken, Price was drafted in the 2005 draft.

It wasnt always easy for Fleury at Pittsburgh, he was sent back down several times and until last year his performance werent the best really. He has now reached a new plateau this year and has been way more solid this season. He sure did a few health problems but so they Price...Look at how shines Fleury now...

Problem in Montreal is we tend to give way too

one word : have patience with the young breed goalies...

I dont think we can make career assumptions until they reach 24-26 years old. Problem with the habs fan is they always compare our players with the best young goalies out there who have made marvelous shutdowns but they almost never look at the big picture.

As for Melanson, i do agree with other posters who have been saying he made almost all CH goalies play 1-2 notches above their potential in the past. Yesterday while watching l'antichambre at RDS i saw some of his comments on a RBC radio proclaming he was gently pushed aside from the training....

I really wonder why a goaler trainer is taking too much place? Is it because he felt at the short terme that Halak was more ready than Price....Bob definitely not agreeing...we do not know. Based on his comments to halifax radio show i really wonder what he was thinking...lynching himself out of montreal or expressing himself because he definitely knew he wouldnt get a contract for next year?

Seriously this season has been so awful outside and on ice...i really have no idea what to think about CH short terme future...and Melanson is included in the big evaluation Gainey and his team will have to do.

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I think Gainey rolled with Price because as General Manager he has a belief that Price needs to require as much big-game ('experience-rich' he called it) experience as possible. If that's your position, Halak is almost irrelevant, especially since he had zero chance of winning that series after Game Three anyway. I don't know enough about developing young players to be able to judge whether that is a wise strategy on Gainey's part.

Most of the posters in this thread seem to be taking a sensible approach to Price, which is remembering that he is very young and that very young goalies tend to be inconsistent (like all young players, come to think of it). Like many of you, I don't think we can infer from the past that Melanson is the problem. And incidentally, Hackett was a legitimate, quality #1 goalie when he was with us, and if his name had been 'Bouchard' or 'Boucher' he would be remembered with great fondness by this fan base.

My only qualm about Price is that he has shown a disturbing tendency to be light-out at the wrong times. Yeah, he was great down the stretch last season, but blew up in the Philly series. I'd rather it had gone the other way around. Similarly, he was great in the first half, decent but not excellent in the playoffs this season. The thing with Roy's rookie season was that he was erratic in the regular season and jaw-droppingly amazing in the playoffs. He got the timing right. But I agree that it's too soon to be drawing any definitive conclusions about whether Price is another Marty Turco.

Another thing is that Price's playoff 'struggles' need to be put in context. In fact he made a LOT of big saves. Problem was, he also let in some so-so goals. Critics focus on the latter, but need to remember the big saves too.

Finally, count me among those who think it is ridiculous to expect ANY 21-year-old to come in and dominate behind the kind of defensive crap we threw out there this season. As desperately as we need a C, it might be better to focus on acquiring another elite D-man for the sole purpose of protecting Price better. Patrick Roy benefitted HUGELY from playing behind an ace defensive squad, and any Price-Roy comparisons need to bear that fundamental difference in mind. Hell, even the Mason-Price comparison is faulty for the same reason.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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I think Gainey rolled with Price because as General Manager he has a belief that Price needs to require as much big-game ('experience-rich' he called it) experience as possible. If that's your position, Halak is almost irrelevant, especially since he had zero chance of winning that series after Game Three anyway. I don't know enough about developing young players to be able to judge whether that is a wise strategy on Gainey's part.

Most of the posters in this thread seem to be taking a sensible approach to Price, which is remembering that he is very young and that very young goalies tend to be inconsistent (like all young players, come to think of it). Like many of you, I don't think we can infer from the past that Melanson is the problem. And incidentally, Hackett was a legitimate, quality #1 goalie when he was with us, and if his name had been 'Bouchard' or 'Boucher' he would be remembered with great fondness by this fan base.

My only qualm about Price is that he has shown a disturbing tendency to be light-out at the wrong times. Yeah, he was great down the stretch last season, but blew up in the Philly series. I'd rather it had gone the other way around. Similarly, he was great in the first half, decent but not excellent in the playoffs this season. The thing with Roy's rookie season was that he was erratic in the regular season and jaw-droppingly amazing in the playoffs. He got the timing right. But I agree that it's too soon to be drawing any definitive conclusions about whether Price is another Marty Turco.

Another thing is that Price's playoff 'struggles' need to be put in context. In fact he made a LOT of big saves. Problem was, he also let in some so-so goals. Critics focus on the latter, but need to remember the big saves too.

Finally, count me among those who think it is ridiculous to expect ANY 21-year-old to come in and dominate behind the kind of defensive crap we threw out there this season. As desperately as we need a C, it might be better to focus on acquiring another elite D-man for the sole purpose of protecting Price better. Patrick Roy benefitted HUGELY from playing behind an ace defensive squad, and any Price-Roy comparisons need to bear that fundamental difference in mind. Hell, even the Mason-Price comparison is faulty for the same reason.

As a fan, and I am sure as his team mates, I would be pissed at Gainey for not icing the best team. No wonder the team tanked, once they realized the were hired playmates for the annointed one to learn on!!!!

Price definitely needs to gain experience, but this team needs to operate on a performance equals reward basis. End of story. I don't want to see Price traded, I just want to see this team get an experienced goalie (let Halak go, he has suffered enough) and work with Price until he is really ready to be number one.

My one concern with Price is that most great goalies are very intelligent. One could say it is the thinking man's position. I fear that Price just isn't that smart and is a slow learner. Goalies constantly need to learn and adjust as they face tougher competition and players learn their tendencies. I am not so sure Price is a quick learner. I hope I am wrong, as this will limit his ability to go from good young goalie, to hall of famer.

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As a fan, and I am sure as his team mates, I would be pissed at Gainey for not icing the best team. No wonder the team tanked, once they realized the were hired playmates for the annointed one to learn on!!!!

Price definitely needs to gain experience, but this team needs to operate on a performance equals reward basis. End of story. I don't want to see Price traded, I just want to see this team get an experienced goalie (let Halak go, he has suffered enough) and work with Price until he is really ready to be number one.

My one concern with Price is that most great goalies are very intelligent. One could say it is the thinking man's position. I fear that Price just isn't that smart and is a slow learner. Goalies constantly need to learn and adjust as they face tougher competition and players learn their tendencies. I am not so sure Price is a quick learner. I hope I am wrong, as this will limit his ability to go from good young goalie, to hall of famer.

Where do you come off questioning another person's intelligence. Have you met with the young man? Have you administered some psychological tests to him? Have you administered some test that measures his IQ(Intelligence)? Have you been in school with this young man? Give us all a break and contain your "assumptions" to yourself and judge the young man on his performance on the ice.

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I for one am getting REALLY sick of this whole Carey Price debate. Surfing the web, you'd swear that he is 100% personally and solely responsible for this series and that he completely sucked ass the whole time. Since neither of these is true, I'm chalking it all up as yet another example of the preposterous level of unreality and insanity that has somehow come to define the Montreal fan base.

C'mon folks - MOVE ON.

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