Markov

[bbp]

I think the Defence is gonna be very different next year. For sure Spacek is gone. Gill might be gone or in a lesser role.

The minutes that Diaz and Emelin are getting could be huge.

Priority number 1 has to be to keep Gorges.

Georges will get signed, he loves Montreal, but does anyone think Gill will retire? Or does he have more gas in him?

[hab29RETIRED]

Everyone in Montreal knew that one of Halak or Price would be traded.

You think the other 29 NHL GMs didn't know?

Pierre McGuire has made this Halak trade into this giant myth that other GMs didn't know Halak was available. I call B.S. on McGuire here. McGuire was fired by Gauthier in Ottawa, and desperately wanted the Montreal GM job when Gainey left. He has a huge axe to grind on Gauthier, and his continual harping on this trade is complete and utter bullshit.

I think the Defence is gonna be very different next year. For sure Spacek is gone. Gill might be gone or in a lesser role.

The minutes that Diaz and Emelin are getting could be huge.

Priority number 1 has to be to keep Gorges.

Other GM's not knowing how quickly the Halak deal went down isn't a surprise - hell, when Price said he heard about a deal, he thought he was the one traded. When Joe Thornton was traded, it was also a surprise. My point is WHY wouldn't you make it known that you want to see what others are willing to pay for Halak, instead of quickly making a deal????

The non-long term deal was a MAJOR blunder by Gorges. I really don't understand why he wasn't locked up. Last summer I was saying, that they habs should try and lock up guys like Gorges, Subban, Price and White to long term deals and see if they can reduce the cap hit, before the loop hole is closed. I think if they offered Gorges a 7 or 8 year deal, they could have got him for a cap hit of around $3.5M, by front-loading bonuses the same way Buffalo did with Meyers.

[hab29RETIRED]

Georges will get signed, he loves Montreal, but does anyone think Gill will retire? Or does he have more gas in him?

I want nothing to do with Gill. Once we get healthy (or should i say IF???), I think Gill's use should be limited to the PK.

Last year I said i didn't want Gill or Hamrlik back, becuase i didn't want more then one of the three old goats returning (spacek, Gill, hamrlik), unless they could dump Spacek. To me Hamrlik made the least sense to bring back and I thought we paid to much for Gill, given that all he is a PK specialist. Those those that were crying about losing Hamrlik at the start of the year can see who dumb it would have been to give him a two year deal. The guy has been a regular scratch in Washington.

[Commandant]

Other GM's not knowing how quickly the Halak deal went down isn't a surprise - hell, when Price said he heard about a deal, he thought he was the one traded. When Joe Thornton was traded, it was also a surprise. My point is WHY wouldn't you make it known that you want to see what others are willing to pay for Halak, instead of quickly making a deal????

The non-long term deal was a MAJOR blunder by Gorges. I really don't understand why he wasn't locked up. Last summer I was saying, that they habs should try and lock up guys like Gorges, Subban, Price and White to long term deals and see if they can reduce the cap hit, before the loop hole is closed. I think if they offered Gorges a 7 or 8 year deal, they could have got him for a cap hit of around $3.5M, by front-loading bonuses the same way Buffalo did with Meyers.

You were gonna trust a guy coming off a knee surgery with a 7 year deal, but Gauthier made a major mistake giving Markov 3 years?

Also I don't trust any defensive D, who blocks as many shots as Gorges, with a 7 year deal. 4 as an absolute max, and 3 is better IMO. Look at Jason Smith, Jay McKee, Mike Komisarek, Derian Hatcher, Mike Rathje, Scott Hannan, and numerous others of these type of Dmen. The shot blocking takes a toll on their body. When they start to fall off, they fall off very, very quickly.... much more quickly than the offensive puck moving D men. I wouldn't trust Gorges or any defensive D with that length of deal.

[hab29RETIRED]

<p>

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You were gonna trust a guy coming off a knee surgery with a 7 year deal, but Gauthier made a major mistake giving Markov 3 years?<br />

<br />

Also I don't trust any defensive D, who blocks as many shots as Gorges, with a 7 year deal.  4 as an absolute max, and 3 is better IMO.  Look at Jason Smith, Jay McKee, Mike Komisarek, Derian Hatcher, Mike Rathje, Scott Hannan, and numerous others of these type of Dmen.  The shot blocking takes a toll on their body.  When they start to fall off, they fall off very, very quickly.... much more quickly than the offensive puck moving D men.  I wouldn't trust Gorges or any defensive D with that length of deal.<br />

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<p>I don't think PG made a mistake on Markov!! I've always supported resigning Markov.  I think if you front load Gorge's contract with bonuses and have him earning $1.5M in years 5-6 and $1M in the last year, you lesson the risk by making him more tradable or an affordable buy out.  Besides, Gorges is only around 27!  That would take him to 34 or 35 years old.</p>

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[Trizzak]

So you think he is a good gm, but should be sacked because of a "bad" move?

I agree with Commandant about the Eller-Halak trade. There were a lot of goalies available which teams wouldn't have had to trade for.

I am a fan of PG he actually went out and brought in a power forward in Eric Cole, who has been very solid with us. He went to try and get a solid fourth line center in Betts, didn't pan out, but he tried. He took a gamble I would have made. I would rather have a healthy Markov then any of the d, including wiz, that were available. Sure I would have preferred to have Georges signed with the longer contract then Markov, but if thats what it was going to take I would have done it.

Plus he brought in Campoli as depth so we wouldn't have to have so many youth playing major minutes... he couldn't have expected the amount of injuries we have had to our d!

The idea of firing PG is completely ridiculous. He hasn't done anything wrong imo. He has done the best he could do given the circumstances he found himself in.

No, I think he should be fired for a colossal mistake.

Markov was his man the whole way, and I think there is a problem with that.

[hab29RETIRED]

No, I think he should be fired for a colossal mistake.

Markov was his man the whole way, and I think there is a problem with that.

I don't have a problem with the Markov signing - I do have a problem with him not brining in someone when it was apparent that Markov was going to be out for 1 1/2 months and Campoli went down in training camp.

[Commandant]

<p></p>

<p>I don't think PG made a mistake on Markov!! I've always supported resigning Markov.  I think if you front load Gorge's contract with bonuses and have him earning $1.5M in years 5-6 and $1M in the last year, you lesson the risk by making him more tradable or an affordable buy out.  Besides, Gorges is only around 27!  That would take him to 34 or 35 years old.</p>

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Front loading doesn`t create a more affordable buyout... money wise yes, but not cap hit wise.

Look at Gomez`s buyout cap hits... You take a penalty if you buyout a guy with a front loaded contract.

[Commandant]

<p></p>

<p>I don't think PG made a mistake on Markov!! I've always supported resigning Markov.  I think if you front load Gorge's contract with bonuses and have him earning $1.5M in years 5-6 and $1M in the last year, you lesson the risk by making him more tradable or an affordable buy out.  Besides, Gorges is only around 27!  That would take him to 34 or 35 years old.</p>

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Yeah thats only 34 or 35 but some of those guys had their bodies fall apart on them well before that. Komisarek isn`t even 30 yet.

A guy who blocks that many shots is like an NFL running back IMO... its takes a toll and their careers aren`t long.

[hab29RETIRED]

Front loading doesn`t create a more affordable buyout... money wise yes, but not cap hit wise.

Look at Gomez`s buyout cap hits... You take a penalty if you buyout a guy with a front loaded contract.

Fair enough, but I think if he is only making $1 or $1.5M in the last couple of years, he would still be tradable - if required. I still think he would only be 34 or 35 by then and if he is really beat up , he may decide to retire rather then play for $1M or $1.5M.

Yeah thats only 34 or 35 but some of those guys had their bodies fall apart on them well before that. Komisarek isn`t even 30 yet.

I think there are two other factors with Komi.

First, Markov shielded Komi. Second, Komi became a different player after playing rag doll to Lucic.

[l<OV4L3V]

Uhhhh...Why am I hearing Markov is going to require surgery again? If so..WTF are the habs waiting for and why isn't Markov put on the LTIR so we cN get that cap space free!

[Commandant]

Hannan is 34 now, he started to fall apart 2-3 years ago in Colorado and wasn`t worth the contract he got.

Jay McKee wasn`t the same in St. Louis... he was in his early 30s when he got there too.

34-35 is long IMO for that type of defenseman.... not something I can prove and there are exceptions, but thats just the type of player I`ve always been wary of; and I said so with Komisarek when he was a UFA.

They don`t seem to last.

Uhhhh...Why am I hearing Markov is going to require surgery again? If so..WTF are the habs waiting for and why isn't Markov put on the LTIR so we cN get that cap space free!

1) Markov is on LTIR (we couldn`t have called up Leblanc if he wasnt)

2) the surgery is relatively minor and only will hurt for 3 more weeks.

3) You can`t really use Markov`s LTIR on a trade, because whatever LTIR you use when he`s hurt needs to be cleared when he comes back (ie with Leblanc up, we need to send guys down before we can activate Markov).

[hab29RETIRED]

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Hannan is 34 now, he started to fall apart 2-3 years ago in Colorado and wasn`t worth the contract he got.<br />

<br />

Jay McKee wasn`t the same in St. Louis... he was in his early 30s when he got there too.<br />

<br />

34-35 is long IMO for that type of defenseman.... not something I can prove and there are exceptions, but thats just the type of player I`ve always been wary of; and I said so with Komisarek when he was a UFA.<br />

<br />

They don`t seem to last.<br />

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<br />

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1) Markov is on LTIR (we couldn`t have called up Leblanc if he wasnt)<br />

2) the surgery is relatively minor and only will hurt for 3 more weeks.<br />

3) You can`t really use Markov`s LTIR on a trade, because whatever LTIR you use when he`s hurt needs to be cleared when he comes back (ie with Leblanc up, we need to send guys down before we can activate Markov).<br />

You may be right, but, I'd be willing to take a chance on Gorges - just as I was okay with taking a chance on Markov. The guy is a blood and guts guy - has always put the team first, can't say the same about Komi.

The other consideration is how the long term contract is structured. IF it is front loaded, as i've said earlier, there is a big difference for a guy that is physically spent, to want to keep playing if his physically broken down, if hi is only making $1M or $1.5M, then he would be if he is making $3.5M to $4.5M.

[Commandant]

I love Gorges but if he wants 4.5 million I'd look elsewhere anyway. Thats a lot for a guy who doesn't bring any offence.

[hab29RETIRED]

I love Gorges but if he wants 4.5 million I'd look elsewhere anyway. Thats a lot for a guy who doesn't bring any offence.

I think he will probably get around that next year. I do think we could have signed him long-term for around $3.5M this past year, since he would have felt he was taking a risk with his injury as well. Now, I think he gets at least $4M from somebody. This is the issue I had with Gainey and his 1 or 3 year deals and looks like PG is of the same mind set.

IMO, you HAVE to sign a guy long term if he is in his UFA year. We are also going to lose AK46 as well one way or the other - either PG trades him at the deadline or we lose him for nothing. the only potential saving grace is that if Martin gets fired, we MAY be able to resign him if he is happier under the new coach.

[Commandant]

4 i'd give him. More than that, I either want a guy who brings a two way game, or more physicality than Gorges for that price.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There's something to the notion that the team will get a perverse psychological life from this bad news about Markov. They're just like the rest of us, Waiting for Godot. Now there is some clarity and the players know they have no one to fall back on but themselves.

That being said, this sucks. We're now consigned to clinging to life until mid-January...which is perilously close to running out of time to make big decisions should Markov's recovery hit a further setback.

[TurdBurglar]

Markov is out for another 3 weeks for another surgery, TSN is reporting.

[Commandant]

There's something to the notion that the team will get a perverse psychological life from this bad news about Markov. They're just like the rest of us, Waiting for Godot. Now there is some clarity and the players know they have no one to fall back on but themselves.

That being said, this sucks. We're now consigned to clinging to life until mid-January...which is perilously close to running out of time to make big decisions should Markov's recovery hit a further setback.

Hey this team was pretty good for about a month until this tough week.

Maybe they can be pretty good for another month without Markov.

Its a lot to put on Price, Subban, Pleks and others... but they can win a bit without Markov. Gotta get Cammy and Gionta going, plus a little more production out of the PP (not Markov level but 0/24 is not acceptable really).

Just get themselves to a few games above 500 by the time he returns.

I don't think its impossible.

However even if it doesn't go well. The Trade deadline isn't til late February... if the team falls apart before that, you can trade Spacek, Campoli, Gill, Moen and load up on draft picks. Pull Gorges into Gauthier's office and tell him.... sign an extension or be traded. Pull Andrei Kostitsyn aside and give him the same ultimatum. You could load up on a lot of picks for a 2012 draft that is incredibly deep.

[BTH]

No, I think he should be fired for a colossal mistake.

Markov was his man the whole way, and I think there is a problem with that.

His opinion on when Markov will return is obviously based on what the Habs doctors tell him.

If the doctors misjudged, then it's their fault.

If this setback could not have been predicted by team doctors and physicians, then it's none of their faults. But there's no reason to hold Gauthier accountable for not predicting that Markov would suffer a setback.

[JCPetit]

When I was younger (in the seventies), I had surgery to remove fragments of a joint meniscus in my left knee. Since then, I have no more problem with that knee. But before the surgery, it was extremely troublesome. I could go for months without a problem, but I had periods of inflammation, when the knee would litteraly block and liquid would have to be removed, which was painful. After the surgery, my leg was put in a cast for three weeks, which required a longer period of rehabilitation to rebuild the muscles. In that time, if you were not an athlete, such a surgery would keep you out of work for two months. Of course, a guy like Bobby Orr could be in the line-up as soon as three weeks afterwards, but we all know that it cost him a lot in the long term.

Having said that, I don't say that Markov has similar problems than mine. Just that I understand that he could not come back with fragments on the loose in the articulation and perform anywhere to his potential. On the positive side, today, with arthoscopy, the surgery is much less invasive and rehabilitation is very short compared to what it used to be. Of course, there remains a lot of uncertainty about his comeback and his effectiveness when it will happen. Still, I believe that we have reasons to be optimistic. A problem has been identified and it will be resolved. The muscles and the articulation are strong; once Markov will be comfortable, chances are good that he will be able to push and regain his strenght and his mobility as well. That's all I hope for anyway.

[BCHabnut]

The biggest question Gauthier has to ask himself is would hiring x-retread coach (like a Therrien, Tremblay, Carbonneau, or Hartley...all French guys as per the team policy) get this team to the playoffs instead of Martin? That can only be answered after considering another question - is the team roster, in its current state, good enough to get there? Personally, I think the answer to #2 is no which inherently means that #1 is no as well. Changing the coach when the personnel isn't good enough, yielding the same result as the present, would be suicide for Gauthier's future which I would think would at least give him pause.

This!

I have been saying throughout the fire Martin hooplah, that the team at it's current state and all of the injuries has not been good enough. If the team is not good enough with a healthy team, I want Gautier gone. Him and gainey are the ones that put these lil fellers out there.

[JMMR]

I don't have a problem with the Markov signing - I do have a problem with him not brining in someone when it was apparent that Markov was going to be out for 1 1/2 months and Campoli went down in training camp.

Nope campoli went out game 1 against toronto

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This!

I have been saying throughout the fire Martin hooplah, that the team at it's current state and all of the injuries has not been good enough. If the team is not good enough with a healthy team, I want Gautier gone. Him and gainey are the ones that put these lil fellers out there.

We have been borderline with an injury-decimated roster. The evidence is strongly in favour of the conclusion that this team when healthy is significantly better than last year's team and therefore a clear-cut playoff club. So on that basis, there's no case for firing Gauthier.

[JCPetit]

We have been borderline with an injury-decimated roster. The evidence is strongly in favour of the conclusion that this team when healthy is significantly better than last year's team and therefore a clear-cut playoff club. So on that basis, there's no case for firing Gauthier.

I agree with you. All we need is a little bit of luck. So far, it's been a dry spell in that departement.