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Is it worth having Price and Weber on this team now with this rebuild?


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I ask this question because its clear we're in a rebuild. After not picking up any top 6 forwards the last 2 years at the deadline or at free agency, not spending up to the cap the last two years, and now with the Pacioretty trade.

    We're not going to be making the playoffs any time soon. So is it best to trade Price and Weber to speed up this rebuild? Or ride it out with them? By the time we become a playoff time Weber might be done as a NHL player, and Price's best years would be behind him. I personally don't want to see Price gone ... But it might be the best thing to do for this rebuild.

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Price will win a cup in Montreal 

Price, yes.  Elite goalies age well, and in 3 years i still expect him to be the backbone of the team.  He is also a leader to keep to steer the youngsters in the right direction.    At 33,

Price stays. Weber will also stay, I believe, but should he? If I were the GM, I would listen to offers for #6 but I'd take a "seller's market" approach. If I get a really nice, impressive return, the

Price, yes.  Elite goalies age well, and in 3 years i still expect him to be the backbone of the team.  He is also a leader to keep to steer the youngsters in the right direction. 

 

At 33, Weber I would trade.  Defencemen age better than forwards, but not as well as goalies, and you can get a lot for him once he comes back and proves he is healthy. 

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In both cases yes.

 

First because both goalies and defencemen tend to age well. In both cases with Weber and Price this holds true if the can stay healthy.

 

In Weber’s case the young players we have will need a veteran presence to help along their progression into the league. Look at the Oilers for instance, no veteran presence with a wack load of young talent but it’s not working out so well. Weber still has a lot to give and I can see him going the way of Chara.

 

In Prices case not having to worry about the goalie situation for your organization for the next 5-8 years is a good thing. A lot of contending teams right now are struggling to find a competent goalie, so if Price can stay healthy I’d say we ride it out with him. Obviously we have some good goalie prospects so in the case of Price falling off a cliff the situation is not that bleak.

 

My two cents.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Habopotamus said:

Price will win a cup in Montreal 

 

:lol:

 

Price stays. Weber will also stay, I believe, but should he? If I were the GM, I would listen to offers for #6 but I'd take a "seller's market" approach. If I get a really nice, impressive return, then I trade him. In the absence of a clear-cut "win" of a trade, I keep him around, on the theory that he is the only stabilizing force on the blueline and that the young defencemen will develop better if they have him around to eat the tough minutes.

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Depends on the return.   If someone is willing to give a return that just can't be refused (in other words huge ridiculous over payment) then I would move Price.  As for Weber, I would just need an over payment for now (because I see the value in having a veteran like him on a rebuilding team).  I would like to see Weber moved at some point in the next couple years before his value starts to take a nose dive.

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Both should have been moved before galchenyuk and I’m betting both will probably request trades in the near future.

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If you look at teams that have successfully come out of the rebuilds... they all had goalies.  Columbus, Toronto, New Jersey, etc...

 

If you look at teams that wallowed through mediocrity forever and could never turn it around... goaltending was a key problem....

 

That is why you keep Price. 

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Weber needs to show he's healthy and get back to his level of play on a consistent basis before a trade becomes remotely feasible.  Considering he won't be back until December, that's going to take a while.  The trade deadline would be the absolute earliest for that to happen and given what's left on the contract, that's a lot tougher of a move to make in-season than in the summer.

 

It's a similar case for Price.  He needs to show he can be a high-end goalie again before anyone takes a look at him with his record-setting deal and the year he just had.  Even if he's great in the first half, the money/term left on the contract will make him an offseason move at the earliest.  Teams will probably want to wait until July 2nd when he's owed a big bonus payment before making any swap as well.

 

Regardless of whether or not they ask for a trade, it's not all that realistic for either to be dealt during the season.

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47 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

Weber needs to show he's healthy and get back to his level of play on a consistent basis before a trade becomes remotely feasible.  Considering he won't be back until December, that's going to take a while.  The trade deadline would be the absolute earliest for that to happen and given what's left on the contract, that's a lot tougher of a move to make in-season than in the summer.

 

It's a similar case for Price.  He needs to show he can be a high-end goalie again before anyone takes a look at him with his record-setting deal and the year he just had.  Even if he's great in the first half, the money/term left on the contract will make him an offseason move at the earliest.  Teams will probably want to wait until July 2nd when he's owed a big bonus payment before making any swap as well.

 

Regardless of whether or not they ask for a trade, it's not all that realistic for either to be dealt during the season.

 

Agree 100%.

 

In season trade targets are Schlemko, Plekanec, Tatar, Benn, and Byron. 

 

Shaw is another one I think you have to wait til next summer, but might have some interest at the deadline (if healthy and playing well).

 

The other name I'd put on the list is Petry.

 

Doubt anyone wants alzner. 

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34 minutes ago, Commandant said:

If you look at teams that have successfully come out of the rebuilds... they all had goalies.  Columbus, Toronto, New Jersey, etc...

 

If you look at teams that wallowed through mediocrity forever and could never turn it around... goaltending was a key problem....

 

That is why you keep Price. 

Price is 31 years old, on a rebuild  Its typically takes 4-5 years. If you're lucky and can get a top 3 pick 3 out of the 5 years and happen to get a elite franchise player, that can speed up that 4-5 years. We are in year 2 of this rebuild.

 

So lets Say in 3 years time we might be a playoff team. Price will be 34 years old. Will he still be on top of his game? If you do trade a guy like Price you ask for a young NHL ready goaltender in the package. 

 

I think we could get a lot for Price from teams making a run for a cup. Example...Toronto, St.Louis, Edmonton, Colorado, are young teams ready to make there runs at a cup and Price could be that difference maker for them.

 

I just don't think Price at 34 would make a difference for us when we are ready to make our run for a cup again.

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Rebuilds in the NHL don't have to take 4-5 years.  More and more young players are having an impact in the NHL, and this has shortened the time for a rebuild. 

Elite goalies are good at 33, 34 and much older... look at Lundqvist, Luongo, Brodeur, Hasek, Roy, etc... its the position that lasts the longest at a high level. 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

If you look at teams that have successfully come out of the rebuilds... they all had goalies.  Columbus, Toronto, New Jersey, etc...

 

If you look at teams that wallowed through mediocrity forever and could never turn it around... goaltending was a key problem....

 

That is why you keep Price. 

Except when Price is the one factor that prevents us from getting a guy like Hughes.

 

the issue with teams like Edmonton or buffalo after they draft their studs is they trade for a has been or roll the dice goalie. Idiots like Chiarelli was more focused on adding toughness and over-paying for Lucic and dmen that were bottom pairing guys rather than trading for an established gialie.  Or making Bergevin type culture trades by moving a future Hart winner.

 

On the flip side, the hawks, shore off the offence and defence and won without having a stud in net and didn’t develop Crawford until after they were already an elite team.

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43 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Rebuilds in the NHL don't have to take 4-5 years.  More and more young players are having an impact in the NHL, and this has shortened the time for a rebuild. 

Elite goalies are good at 33, 34 and much older... look at Lundqvist, Luongo, Brodeur, Hasek, Roy, etc... its the position that lasts the longest at a high level. 

If you are able to land an elite franchise player in the top 3 it would speed up the rebuild (much like Toronto & Edmonton) other wise a full rebuild takes 4-5 years.

 

As for elite goaltender putting up the same number past 35 its mostly because they get traded to teams making a run at a cup,

 

Lundqvist hasn't been at the top of his game on a rebuilding Rangers team, Talk of trading him as well in NY.  Longo hasn't been that great but is now on a up and coming Florida team as a result has put up better numbers. Brodeurs numbers went down when NJ started to rebuild, then he got traded. Hasek's numbers went down on a rebuilding Buffalo team , then he got traded to an elite powerhouse in Detroit played better on a better team. same as Roy, he had some bad years on bad habs teams, then got traded to a powerhouse Colorado team and played better.

 

Then one thing all these goaltenders have in common they all got traded from there rebuilding team to a team that was contenders for a cup. The only one not trade yet of course is Lundqvist.

 

Funny that Montreal is facing the same type of circumstances with Price that those teams had with there elite goaltender at the time.

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22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Except when Price is the one factor that prevents us from getting a guy like Hughes.

 

the issue with teams like Edmonton or buffalo after they draft their studs is they trade for a has been or roll the dice goalie. Idiots like Chiarelli was more focused on adding toughness and over-paying for Lucic and dmen that were bottom pairing guys rather than trading for an established gialie.  Or making Bergevin type culture trades by moving a future Hart winner.

 

On the flip side, the hawks, shore off the offence and defence and won without having a stud in net and didn’t develop Crawford until after they were already an elite team.

 

This defence is going to be bad with weber out half the year. They also are worse offensively from last year when they were shit. Not sure even price can prevent the team from being bottom 5.

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I’d keep both.

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I would definitely trade Weber as soon as his condition/game allow us to get prime return. I get the veteran presence to develop younger players, but the best type of players to have in this spot are old #5 or #6 dman  like Hal Gill. Not your best dman eating a great chunk of the cap space.

 

I would entertain the idea of trading Price only if and when I'm 100% sure that one of the goalies in our system has the potential to become at least a VERY GOOD starter in the NHL.

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2 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

I would definitely trade Weber as soon as his condition/game allow us to get prime return. I get the veteran presence to develop younger players, but the best type of players to have in this spot are old #5 or #6 dman  like Hal Gill. Not your best dman eating a great chunk of the cap space.

On a rebuilding (non-contending) team, why would you be that concerned with cap room?

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

On a rebuilding (non-contending) team, why would you be that concerned with cap room?

 

On a rebuilding (non-contending) team, I'm not concerned about cap room. 

 

I am interested to know what a player of Weber's reputation would be worth in a trade next summer, when he is healthy and ready to play.  That could be a nice return which would speed up the rebuild and bring us back to contending sooner, once it is combined with our other young assets like Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Suzuki, Mete, Scherbak, Juulsen, Drouin, Domi, Brook, Olofsson, Fleury, Evans, Romanov, Ylonen, Ikonen, Lehkonen, Hudon, Gallagher, etc...

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How could you trade Weber? Price would see as much rubber as he will this Oct-Nov and if traded Weber, would still need to sign a 1/2 decent fill-in.

But, yes would be interested in what kind of return he would bring.

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2 hours ago, DON said:

On a rebuilding (non-contending) team, why would you be that concerned with cap room?

Because by the time (or if this team), is in a position to contend again, you int want to be wasting cap space on an over the hill dman when you need to lock up your young players long term.

 

when he comes back from injury he should be able to bring major assets back.  By the time they are ready I contend he will be useless to us and untradeable.

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I'd trade Price.  His value is still high, it won't be in 4 years after the Habs allow him to be peppered night in/out.  He might get hurt along the way.  He might, and I'd say likely will, become vocally disenfranchised if the rebuild takes as long as I'd expect...if he demands a deal, he hurts their ability to trade him for anything of value.  Get the value now to speed up the rebuild.  Draft some goalies next year, and/or trade for one if needed when they're getting competitive.  You don't need a superstar goalie to win the cup.  Keeping him to compete years down the road is crazy...

 

Weber won't be traded till he shows he's healthy and productive.  When he is then I'd trade him too.  

 

These two mean the Habs are likely not picking top 4 in the next 1-2 drafts.  They want to rebuild then get more picks and ensure 1-2 top picks to grab a true future star.  They'll also then have cap room to fill spots around the young talent...and extend them.  

 

Of course it also means they need to get to get their player development systems into full gear.

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