Were we really *that* bad?

[Cataclaw]

Eight reasons to believe in the Habs for next year:

1. Carbonneau and Gainey are men that learn from their mistakes. You can expect both to evaluate the situation during the summer and whip the team into shape for next year.

2. The club has strong leadership at all levels, especially at the player level (Saku Koivu -- who by the way, just had a record year and wants to stay in Montreal and win)

3. The kids are progressing in leaps and bounds. After a summer of working out and a training camp in the fall, they'll be back even stronger.

4. "Problem" players will be taken care of. You can be sure Bob Gainey is going to do something about Aebischer, Niinimaa, Samsonov, etc.

5. Despite not making the playoffs, the Canadiens had a good record in terms of wins. If the NHL was using a different point ranking system (such as the old system or a 3-pt system) the Canadiens would have made the playoffs, and then some. One scheme places the Canadiens at 4th, others 6th. Only the current OTL and SOL giving 1 point system has the Canadiens out of the playoffs. So when you look at the numbers game... Habs weren't *that* bad at all. http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=586

6. The Canadiens saw their special teams improve throughout the season (only to finish with the #1 PP in the league) Next year, if they start the season with the same proficiency and momentum in this department, you better watch out...

7. The Canadiens suffered through ilness, a dysfunctional 2nd line featuring Samsonov, a dozen significant injuries and other disasters and still came close to clinching a playoff spot.

And lastly...

8. In Bob we trust™. 'Nuff said.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Cataclaw

[smon]

Yeah there are definitely some positives. Although whining about the current system for points is a waste of time, since it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Habsy]

Yeah there are definitely some positives. Although whining about the current system for points is a waste of time, since it's not going to change anytime soon.

Where's the whining?? He eloquently stated the facts regarding the point system. A system that many believe to be flawed.

[Easy Ryder]

The system flawed because it was not the right players playing Carbo's system. (Kovalev, Samsonov, Ninimaa, Dandenault, Ryder).

With the kind of involvment he asked for all the players have to contribute to each little play on the ice.

Carbo clearly wants a mix of good 2 way players and gritty players.

No superstars can do it here.

[Mont Royale]

Where's the whining?? He eloquently stated the facts regarding the point system. A system that many believe to be flawed.

Agreed - however, saying that we would have made the playoffs under a different point system isn't necessarily true. The fact is that they were playing under THIS point system all season, and every team's strategy was to get the most points under this system. So, late in the game many teams were holding on for ties, when perhaps they would otherwise be going for a win under a system that didn't reward a tie.

It's speculation, of course, but so is the Habs making the playoffs under another system.

[rafikz]

I don't think we are that bad

But we lacked consistency, that's for sure

[BCHabnut]

The comment about Carbo wanting gritty 2 way guys is correct. I would look for a slightly more boring, but more productive season next year. All north south, all the time. One forechecker, and use your speed to capitalize on their mistakes. A la Jaques Lemaire. It's boring, but it works. I hope it isn't quite that bad, but when you look at the staff we have in place, I think you will see that.

So now the question is, who will get us more bang for our buck under that system? A Briere style player, who by all accounts has had an amazing season, (all of us old guys know what the Habs organization does to stars) or a Drury type solid two way guy with some offensive flare to go with it. He's not really a number one centre, but I am really afraid that we will be disapointed with any number one centre that we sign. The Habs just bring stars down for some reason.

[JMMR]

I would love Drury BCHabnut.

As for the 8 points...thanks Catclaw but noting can make up for that collapse.

[brobin]

One thing for everyone to keep in mind. Even if our youth continue to progress (and history shows that is often not the case, at least not linearly, but in fits and bounds), we need our vets not to regress!

The vets this year regressed to wipe out anything the youth did. In addition, the youth have to progress enough to be better then the vets they replace.

So the real trick will be to ensure we have better performances from the vets and any young gun who makes the line up is actually BETTER then the vet they replaced in the lineup.

Imagine if Sammy had been a 25 goal guy and Kovalev had a good year to complement Higgins and Pleks's breakout year. We would be 4th still...

[KoZed]

We still need to improve our D corps. It's not a great D. If we start next season with the same guys, it'll still be an iffy future. We need quality depth.

As for Carbo's system, its a fairly successful one when A) The goalie dont let in soft goals and B) The skaters, well, skate!

Most of the bad penalties Habs were in the habit of getting were lazy penalties: hooking, tripping, etc. That's what happens when you chase the other team around because you couldn't get to the puck first.

Look at how Higgins, Plex and Lapierre rarely received such penalties. That's because they skated hard when pursuing the puck. They also were all positive on TA/GA. That's how the system works.

Sadly the vets couldn't adapt. Koivu struggled defensively and with bad penalties all season long. Ditto for Kovy, Rivet, Souray, Ryder, Bouillon and Dandeneault. That's what sank us regularly.

[ShortHanded]

The comment about Carbo wanting gritty 2 way guys is correct. I would look for a slightly more boring, but more productive season next year. All north south, all the time. One forechecker, and use your speed to capitalize on their mistakes. A la Jaques Lemaire. It's boring, but it works. I hope it isn't quite that bad, but when you look at the staff we have in place, I think you will see that.

So now the question is, who will get us more bang for our buck under that system? A Briere style player, who by all accounts has had an amazing season, (all of us old guys know what the Habs organization does to stars) or a Drury type solid two way guy with some offensive flare to go with it. He's not really a number one centre, but I am really afraid that we will be disapointed with any number one centre that we sign. The Habs just bring stars down for some reason.

So true. I could live with Drury - Koivu as our 1-2 punch. Don't care who's 1 and who's 2, but I think we'd be disappointed in the end if we got Briere because he wouldn't fit our system (Carbo won't change, I hope he will, but i know he won't). Lecavalier would be awesome, but I think he wants nothing to do with the pressure cooker of playing here.

[revin5]

[/b]

So true. I could live with Drury - Koivu as our 1-2 punch. Don't care who's 1 and who's 2, but I think we'd be disappointed in the end if we got Briere because he wouldn't fit our system (Carbo won't change, I hope he will, but i know he won't). Lecavalier would be awesome, but I think he wants nothing to do with the pressure cooker of playing here.

1-2-3 punch, don't forget plex.

[brobin]

Other then Souray.. who was the last guy that actually raised their stock by playing for Montreal (Roy?).

It is going to be pretty tough to convince any of these guys to come to Montreal. Most of them probably view Montreal as the death of their careers.

I suspect that to get these guys to come, Gainey is going to have to over pay. When he does, I hope people understand why and don't give him too much grief.

[cfposi]

I was (and still am...to a point) a supporter of Carbo. I was so excited to have this guy come back to coach the Habs because few players in the history of the game have understood it as well as he has. That being said, I was shocked at the following 2 realizations:

1) Inflexibility: A good coach doesn't come to a new team and impose a strict doctrine of style. Carbo should have done what a good coach would have done, assess the players he had and adapted a system to their talents. He, Gainey and a consultant must sit down and redesign the system for next year (based on current players and new aquisitions).

2) Lack of Patience: how can you succeed when you play 30 line combinations a night. Chemistry takes time, stick with what you've got and let it happen.

[sbhatt]

I suspect that to get these guys to come, Gainey is going to have to over pay. When he does, I hope people understand why and don't give him too much grief.

Absolutely. Factor in the terrible tax situation in Canada, a system where your stats are going to take a hit (and therefore cost you money on your next deal), and the pressure of playing in Montreal...and you pretty much have to be the highest bidder by a substantial margin.

Edited April 10, 2007 by sbhatt

[habs rule]

I was (and still am...to a point) a supporter of Carbo. I was so excited to have this guy come back to coach the Habs because few players in the history of the game have understood it as well as he has. That being said, I was shocked at the following 2 realizations:

1) Inflexibility: A good coach doesn't come to a new team and impose a strict doctrine of style. Carbo should have done what a good coach would have done, assess the players he had and adapted a system to their talents. He, Gainey and a consultant must sit down and redesign the system for next year (based on current players and new aquisitions).

2) Lack of Patience: how can you succeed when you play 30 line combinations a night. Chemistry takes time, stick with what you've got and let it happen.

so far I have read over te course of this year that he did not try enough combos , he left the combos together too long now he does not have patience. Somehow I think any of these comments are coloured by the fact we are not in the playoffs. As to his system, it is not very often a rookie coach can implement a new system and have it be effective immediately. I guess Julien's system was not too good since we and now new jersey fired him. Carbo had to have some learning curve and all of you who thought he was going to be the second coming need to wake up. He is and will be in the future a very good coach but a little patience by some of the fans would be nice. :hlogo:

[cfposi]

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the playoffs. This was not a great system, and even if we HAD made the playoff we would not go far because Carbo played the end of the season like a long training camp. He didn't leave any lines intact this year. Im not saying that he didn't do certain things right as well, but this was a serious flaw.

It is one thing to change up lines early in a season, but if you are doing in that late, you have to face the fact that either you are terribly impatient (because no line cliks after only one period), or you are SERIOUSLY lacking in talent.

[PB]

I was (and still am...to a point) a supporter of Carbo. I was so excited to have this guy come back to coach the Habs because few players in the history of the game have understood it as well as he has. That being said, I was shocked at the following 2 realizations:

1) Inflexibility: A good coach doesn't come to a new team and impose a strict doctrine of style. Carbo should have done what a good coach would have done, assess the players he had and adapted a system to their talents. He, Gainey and a consultant must sit down and redesign the system for next year (based on current players and new aquisitions).

2) Lack of Patience: how can you succeed when you play 30 line combinations a night. Chemistry takes time, stick with what you've got and let it happen.

Good post.

The parity in the league is merciless in showing any weaknesses resulting from a team struggling with a system that is unfitted to bring the best from the specific of its constituing elements.

It take much less effort and intelligence from an organisation to impose a system and take a few years to find the soldiers that will serve it at it's best than to gauge and evaluate a group of players from which to design an appropriately balanced system looking to get the highest results from the predeterminate specific circumstances set by whats at hand.

The first casuality of this unflexible approach has been our season,.....Montreal could have turned into

a concert of cars hunking horns and fans celebrating saturday night or many nights ago but this sacrifice was

as predictable as the one which will be coming on our way to have the proper pieces to fit Gainey's and his protege's defensive system of the futur.

There is a lack of people exchanging ideas at the top office and what we saw on the ice

this year is the result of it.

[BTH]

Good points. It sucks to have a winning record and to watch teams with losing record take your playoff spot. But we've had this system all along and had 2 chances to clinch a spot and lost, so the blame is on us. Are we *that* bad? definitely not. We have plenty of potential for next season, but let's see how the UFA period goes before making any predictions.

[kaos]

YEs Montreal was really that bad. They dropped from being 5 points behind Buffalo in December, to dropping out of the playoffs.

They couldn't come up with 2 points in the last two days of the season when it mattered most to get into the playoffs....and they were a totally healthy hockey club.

They couldn't even get a shot on goal in the last 10 mins of the most important hockey game in the 2006/07 season.

Yes the were that bad.

Yes there are positives.

Chris Higgins, Michael Ryder, Andrei Kostitsyn, Tomas Plekanec, Maxim Lapierre, MIke Komisarek, Jaroslav Halak and Guillaume Latendresse made great strides and proved they are NHL'ers and ready to contribute.

YEs there are negatives.

Huge slumps by Koivu, Samsonov, Kovalev and other led to a long slump and eventually missing the playoffs.

Things to watch out for.

For a good as the young kids were, guys like Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Halak and Latendresee have to avoid the dreaded sophomore slump.

This team absolutley postively needs a #1 centre to share time with Koivu. Plekanec played well, but they need to be able to roll two very good scoring lines to keep constant pressure on the opposing team.

The 0 shots in the 3rd period of the leaf game proved just how inept Montreal's offence was and how desparate they are for some offensive help...especially from a #1 centreman

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I totally agree with kaos's post. However, I think there was also an issue this season of veterans resisting Carbonneau, either his system or his style. This season was indeed 'sacrificed' but part of the point was to lay the foundation for a long run of stability at the coaching position. Gainey wants this team to grow together, with Carbo, and is prepared to do whatever it takes to make that happen - even lose. I draw this from his press conference, where he talked about the team having fundamental problems in its game, but the players resisting the message that these problems had to be corrected. Once they DID correct the problems, they started winning, he argued. The message: if you want to win around here, do things OUR WAY. The young guns get it, and this is clearly in the process of becoming *their* team.

Long story short, Carbo will probably look a lot better next year.

[ShortHanded]

I was (and still am...to a point) a supporter of Carbo. I was so excited to have this guy come back to coach the Habs because few players in the history of the game have understood it as well as he has. That being said, I was shocked at the following 2 realizations:

1) Inflexibility: A good coach doesn't come to a new team and impose a strict doctrine of style. Carbo should have done what a good coach would have done, assess the players he had and adapted a system to their talents. He, Gainey and a consultant must sit down and redesign the system for next year (based on current players and new aquisitions).

2) Lack of Patience: how can you succeed when you play 30 line combinations a night. Chemistry takes time, stick with what you've got and let it happen.

agreed on both, ESPECIALLY your first point. In the case of number 2, there was one line he kept together for WAY too long (Kovy, Sammy and Plex) but other than that, he usually would mix and match too often. This is why a player like Perogie had no chance to show case his offensive talents this year. His detractors point to the fact that he's had lots of chances on one of the top two lines, and though I would argue with the "a lot", even if you think he had many chances, it's impossible to expect a player to produce with a new set of linemates every period... They did need a chance to Gel. Perogie's the best example of this, but ther are many other cases of the same.

[Doktor Kosmos]

I have mixed feelings on this topic.

Before I get to my main arguments there is one thing I have to say first because I just can't get it out of my head. Considering the way the team played the first period of the final game against the Leafs they don't deserve to be in the playoffs. Such an important game and the Leafs had what, 20 shots in the first period? You just cannot allow that to happen.

Consider that a parenthesis. Here's what I really wanted to say.

If someone had told me at the start of the season that it was going to be decided in the last game whether the Habs make the playoffs or not, that would not have been something I would have had any problems believing. IMO it didn't seem like an improbable scenario at all. So in that respect I am not that disappointed.

When the team was doing so well during the first half of the season, I have to admit I was surprised. I knew they have it in them to play well, but not that well. Still, if someone had told me on Christmas Eve that the last it was going to come down to the last game, I certainly would not have believed it.

Then, for a number of reasons, they went into a bad slump that they couldn't seem to get out of for a long time, much too long. The first time they (neither the players nor the coaching staff) faced real adversity they couldn't respond.

But I don't hope I come off as being a pessimist, because I think things can get better. If they can only learn to handle slumps better and improve the even-strength goals scored/goals allowed ratio, thins are gonna get better. Special teams have been outstanding.

We know they can all do better. I think that basically the only ones who have had a very good season (at least as far as points goes) are Koivu and Souray. If Ryder can improve his consistency he shouldn't have to wait until the last game to score 30 goals (heck, he even had a hat trick to make 30 in the final game). I think Higgins can do better. Don't get me wrong, he did good, but he can do better. Perhaps the early injury partially ruined it for him. We know Huet can do better, we know Kovy can do better (but 07/08 should be his last chance to prove that, even if he has more years left on his contract). Markov can do better, many of the youngsters will do better; they're bound to earn more icetime and get more experience. Carbo & co will probably do better (I for one think he's got much more potential as a coach than Gretzky).

Edited April 12, 2007 by Doktor Kosmos

[Doktor Kosmos]

Oh, and one more thing. While I think a lot of improvment can be made in both goaltending, defense and forwards, what I'd love to see Gainey acquire is a player (I'd prefer a forward actually) who brings an uncompromising style, someone who doesn't know what the words "can't", "no" and "stop" mean. Someone who brings leadership to the team, and someone whose attitude spills over to the other players. Someone who has a real aura of confidence. Know what I mean. Simply put, a franchise player. I love Koivu and I have a huge amount of respect for him, what heäs gone through and what he's done for this team, but I think it's unrealistic to expect him to do it all on his own. He needs help and he deserves help.

I love Kovy I'll admit his time in Montreal has been a disappint. Gainey needs to start acquiring players who can help the team in everything they do, not help in some departments and hurt the team in other departments. I don't know who this/these player(s) is/are. I don't know how many of you who follow soccer, but in soccer terms, we need to have players on our team, players like Thierry Henry, Didier Drogba, Ronaldinho. What we don't need the second best, we can't afford to have the second best.

Edited April 12, 2007 by Doktor Kosmos

[ch_nl]

One major slump and the season was over.

Also, this season was tight and many played great hockey. I hate to say it but maybe with Ribeiro or Perreault the Habs would be in the Stanley Cup right now...

The big reason why the Habs are out are because of chemistry. The lack of it.

Higgins injury spoiled some and the second line never got it going when Samsonov and Kovalev was supposed to play hockey like they did in the old days in Russia. To bad it never happend.

But now the group must re-group and start to think on what to do to get there next season.

One thing is clear to me. The Montreal Canadiens needs more talent up front. All respect to Saku Koivu but the guy played with an eye injury and none of the lines clicked.

With players like Michael Ryder, Alex Kovalev, Saku Koivu, Sergei Samsonov, Guillame Latendresse and Chris Higgins this team should have scored more goals.

Don't know how this will be fixed but it has to be done.