Things haven't changed much this year

[kaos]

My how things do not change even though The Montreal Candiens were the most improved team in the League last year. They won there division (albiet only because Pittsburgh tanked their last game) advanced to the second round of the playoffs, have one of the most exciting teams in the game today. Yet no major free agents....infact no free agents want to sign here?

Whats the deal?

I am suprised at the lack of Gainey bashers. No one saying " he underestimated the market, was too slow, spent too much time on that douchebag Sundin"...or whatever the case may be.

I appreciate what Gainey has done. He has not totally lost it like the GM's*** in Chicago (what the F**K is with the Campbell Huet Contracts???), Vancouver and their absolutley stupid offer of $10 Million a year for Sundin, Fletchers dumbass contract to Jeff Fingers, and the numerous other dumb contracts awarded. Nobody bashing him for not making a move for a centre...yet anyways.

*** Koudos to Detroit for the Hossa signing and there Stanley Cup next year if Osgood stays healthy and halfway decent. Just a very impressive organization and I am almost jealous. Thats just sooo extremely impressive...my god.

BUt considering this is Montreal I marvel at the restrait of the city and the media. There has not been a negative comment. Is everyone in shock? Whats the deal?

Edited July 2, 2008 by kaos

[sbhatt]

I am suprised at the lack of Gainey bashers. No one saying " he underestimated the market, was too slow, spent too much time on that douchebag Sundin"...or whatever the case may be.

considering this is Montreal I marvel at the restrait of the city and the media. There has not been a negative comment. Is everyone in shock? Whats the deal?

I think we all realize that we need a centre, not a winger, and to have overspent on a winger as so many teams already have would have been a mistake by Gainey. Sundin is the only top-tier centre out there, and that's the only player Bob should overspend for. That Sundin hasn't signed is no fault of Bob's...he's done everything in his power to persuade Mats to sign with the Canadiens. The ball is in Sundin's court now, and nothing BG could do will speed up his decision. Couple that with the smart re-signing of A. Kostitsyn, and really, what more do you want from the man up until this point?

[BTH]

It is not that they don't have any interest in coming here. It's that we had interest in very few of the UFA. We spent most of our attention on Sundin and I'd imagine we only spoke to a handful of other guys after Hossa and Rolston.

I don't thikn anyone's been complaining because the people who were expecting anything were mostly expecting Sundin - and he hasn't signed anywhere yet (or at least not since the last time I checked, I only just got home) so people are still hopeful.

[Wamsley01]

I am sure Mats will consider us when he returns from his life walk.

[Habitforming]

Sundin's shenannagins (love that word!) aside, Bob has done very well to avoid the cash flow to UFA's this year.

Sundin will play with the Habs IF he does play, we just need to keep that much aside for him. In the meantime, why not make a pitch to Orpik?

The guy is mean and would round out our D enough to rival any D corps in the league. Naturally, Dandy and maybe Brisebois would suffer from it (like being traded or not resigning in Beezy's case) but that would be huge for us.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Habitforming

[saskhab]

Only Detroit and us could afford to wait on Sundin to make a decision, although Pittsburgh might come in late here now that Hossa is gone and if they can't entice Jagr to come back. The Rangers had to make a couple of quick decisions and really, they are out of it right now. Vancouver will have to act quickly to get some other players signed and that $20m will be off the table shortly. Toronto has already moved on. Detroit has got Hossa to bite (who as a natural right winger, is an even better fit for them than Mats), so that option is off the table.

When Mats makes up his mind, Montreal will be front and centre as an option for him.

I'm glad Montreal isn't saddled with pretty much all of those contracts handed out yesterday, although that Hossa one would've been good because it was short term.

[Habsfan]

I am suprised at the lack of Gainey bashers. No one saying " he underestimated the market, was too slow, spent too much time on that douchebag Sundin"...or whatever the case may be.

There are no Gainey bashers cause they would be idiots to bash him. Gainey has done well up to this point and there's no need to make crazy offer sheets to UFA who are not big centres. It would be nice to have Hossa, but he's not what the Habs need!

Like I said, Gainey has led this team in the right direction, to bash him now would just be stupid and ignorant!

[Dalhabs]

Id love a mean Dman and if Orpik is that then lets try and sign him for a reasonable cost. But Id rather get Yemelin to come here and fill that position.

[Zowpeb]

There are still other UFA's on the market that can help the Habs...not to mention potential trades that can still happen.

I don't buy this "the Habs don't need a winger" junk either.

The Habs have Higgins, Tanguay, Kovalev and A Kostsytsin as top 6 wingers...but they have enough money to create 3 good lines. A centre would help more then anything BUT it's not like Kostsytsin or Higgins couldn't drop to the 3rd line if you wanted to roll out 3 quality lines.

The team scored a lot last year and did so without a legitimate game-breaker. Tanguay is not a game breaker and neither is Kovalev, Koivu or Plekanec. So, this team could definitely have used a guy like Hossa.

Jagr, Sundin are the legit game breakers still on the market.

If those are not available to the Habs then signing a couple of players could still help put this team over the top. Guys like Huselius, Demitra, Naslund and even Fedorov (if you can get him to play D and man the PP point) could all be helpful. The added high level depth would compensate for the lack of a true game breaker...

[Jean]

I'm glad than it's not Gainey who is handling all those crazy contracts. I cant help but feel than this league is going straight into a wall with huge long terms contracts like the ones who are being handed out. Gainey's one of the only GM who still have a brain.

Plus, next year we have a lot oF UFAs to worry about.. Kovalev,Koivu,Tanguay,Komi .. this is gonna cost a lot to keep 'em all If Gainey was handling out large contracts like candies, we wouldnt be able to keep our core together after next season.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Jean

[lazy26]

I too admire that the fans aren't in a panic this off-season... Truth be told, we don't need to add much, and I think most people recognize that Bob knows what he is doing.

[MFT77]

As it stands right now, the Habs still have a good, solid team capable of competing at the top of the Eastern Conference, and it Sundin does decide he wants he play in Montreal, the Habs will be that much better. No use wasting cap space of crap.

[Dalhabs]

And there Orpik resigned witht he pens. Alrighty then, lets just resign our RFA's, maybe throw smolinski a offer and save the rest in case Sundin makes a move. I hope Price has gotten over the scary play he had against Philly.

[saskhab]

Pittsburgh has lost a couple of pieces as well. They need to find a couple of wingers and lock up Fleury. We upgraded on Ryder by getting Tanguay, and presumably will look from within to find a new point man for the PP. No other team below the Pens has really improved besides maybe Boston because of Bergeron coming back from injury and adding a top 6 forward in Ryder. The Rangers are all over the place and could be either better or worse, Ottawa is handcuffed and Tampa was so far back they needed a lot just to get back into the playoff picture. Philly and Washington haven't done much, and Carolina is shifting gears right now. The Devils look more formidable, I'll grant them that, although they're relying on some older guys now.

I like how we stack up. We're still a huge player for Sundin right now and that's the only thing I care about when it comes to free agents, although Fedorov would be interesting.

[smon]

The reason I'm not getting angry is that Sundin makes the most sense. I like the optics of getting a skilled vet who wants to win a Cup. Frankly, I would not be displeased if Gainey waits for Sundin to take his time and make a decision. The Habs have needed a big centre for ages.

Jagr, yeah he's won the Cup and he's superbly talented, but he's too much of a prima donna to make it here in MTL. Plus, he's a winger.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Orpik signed with the Pens at 4:58PM.

the smart re-signing of A. Kostitsyn, and really, what more do you want from the man up until this point?

I highly dispute that comment. Bob signing A Kostitsyn to a 3 year deal is the exact opposite of "smart". Am I the only 1 who realizes Bob just signed lil A.K. till he is UFA eligible?

How smart will you think Bob is when lil A.K. walks in 3 years? :?-

The Sundin sweepstakes looks better for the Habs every day though. Most of the teams that were interested in him have already signed other UFA's while he waits till make his decision. i.e. Wings - Hossa, Rags - Redden.

[smon]

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Tis the price you pay for young players in today's market, it seems. Gainey tends to overpay players anyhow.

[saskhab]

Kostitsyn will have one year until UFA when his contract expires. You can't go to UFA after only 6 accrued seasons and at age 26. He needs 7 accrued seasons to become a UFA. So he'll be in the same situation that Plekanec and Higgins are next summer, not what we're facing with Komisarek next summer.

What Bob is doing is keeping players under 25 signed for cheaper contracts. If he signed Andrei through some of his UFA years (like a 6 year deal or so) he'd have to sign him for well over $4m per. He's actually keeping money aside for when these players hit UFA age... and then he'll make the tough choices if they need to be made (i.e., Plekanec or Higgins). If he had gone by the way some other GM's operate, Ryder might've gotten a 5 year deal 2 years ago.

A Kostitsyn is now one of only 3 players (not including rookies like Maxwell and White) under contract for 2010-11 (Hamrlik and Markov are the only other two). No one is signed beyond 2011.

[saskhab]

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Tis the price you pay for young players in today's market, it seems. Gainey tends to overpay players anyhow.

Komisarek, Plekanec and Higgins are 3 of the better value players in the NHL. Markov, Kovalev, and Koivu all have at the very least fair value contracts. No one makes over $6m. I think Gainey is managing the cap system quite well.

One only needs to look at a team like Florida paying 14 goal scorer Rostislav Olesz over $3m a year to realize Gainey isn't overpaying his young players.

[lazy26]

Pittsburgh has lost a couple of pieces as well. They need to find a couple of wingers and lock up Fleury. We upgraded on Ryder by getting Tanguay, and presumably will look from within to find a new point man for the PP. No other team below the Pens has really improved besides maybe Boston because of Bergeron coming back from injury and adding a top 6 forward in Ryder. The Rangers are all over the place and could be either better or worse, Ottawa is handcuffed and Tampa was so far back they needed a lot just to get back into the playoff picture. Philly and Washington haven't done much, and Carolina is shifting gears right now. The Devils look more formidable, I'll grant them that, although they're relying on some older guys now.

I like how we stack up. We're still a huge player for Sundin right now and that's the only thing I care about when it comes to free agents, although Fedorov would be interesting.

All good points. Just remember that Gagne should be back for Philly and Fernendez should be back for Boston. I'm still waiting to see what Ottawa will do, because they've got a lot of holes to fill.

I'm comfortable waiting for that impact player, be it next week, next month or at the trade deadline. We're capable of icing a fully competitive team right now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Bob's philosophy with young players who haven't hit their ceiling is that it's fairest to all concerned to sign medium-term deals. That way, the organization doesn't get saddled with a fat contract for players who fail to develop into stars, and players that DO develop into stars aren't trapped with a contract that undervalues them. He has demonstrated with the Koivu and Markov contracts that a player who delivers on their potential will be paid at fair market rate. I fail to see the problem. The assumption that Kosty will automatically "walk" in three years is foolish. Did Markov walk? Did Koivu? No, because those guys were developed within the organization and like it here. So there's no reason for pessimism at all.

Whether we'll be able to keep everyone (Komisarek, Higgins, both kostytsins, Price, Lats, O'Byrne, etc., etc.) in the longer term is certainly questionable - although it helps to recall that Kovy and Koivu, with their hefty contracts, will not be around forever. But here the mistake is in thinking that the rebuild is "done" and now we do nothing but live off the drafts of 2002-07. No, you have to keep drafting good young players who can replace the guys you do have to lose. That's how it works in a cap system, as I'm sure Bob is well aware. I like the Tanguay deal, but he can't keep doing that, and probably won't.

Anyone criticizing Bob for not trapping the team into ludicrous contracts for UFAs needs to lay off the crack. He identified the one UFA who could really solve our glaring long-running problem at C. He did everything he could to get him. With Detroit out of the running, I think we're very close to getting him still. There's no problem here.

[saskhab]

Good point on Gagne, though at this stage, who knows how good he'll be again. Claude Giroux could be an impact rookie for the Flyers as well. I think Fernadnez could help the B's next year, but I don't think it's an improvement on the goaltending they got last year from Thomas all season. I don't expect Thomas to repeat his All-Star form for next year, so they will likely need Manny, but I don't view it as them improving their goaltending so much as helping them keep up with their performance from last year.

We shouldn't rule Buffalo out of the picture, either. They're definitely a playoff calibre club still, especially if Ruff can get Afinogenov back on track (if they keep him), or the team gets some value in return for him.

[habs rule]

Some of the comments on this board leave me wondering if we shouldn't have some kind of knowledge test before you make stupid posts. Bob is manging the payroll in magnificent fashion. Huet 5.65 mill Bob is not nuts... ryder 4 million bob is not nuts streight 4million bob is not nuts. But there are some gms who are. We are in very good shape AK47 signed because he WANTS to be here and I think gave us a little discount to accomodate that. We have 1 more year with him as an rfa and then we can sign him long term. Bob ain't gonna make no stupid moves. He's now well under the cap and has money to sign The Swede. Other than that there really isn't much in the market so we will save our money for when it will do the most good. Hossa at 7.5 is more than I would have paid BUT it is market value so good for them.

[saskhab]

Bob's philosophy with young players who haven't hit their ceiling is that it's fairest to all concerned to sign medium-term deals. That way, the organization doesn't get saddled with a fat contract for players who fail to develop into stars, and players that DO develop into stars aren't trapped with a contract that undervalues them. He has demonstrated with the Koivu and Markov contracts that a player who delivers on their potential will be paid at fair market rate. I fail to see the problem. The assumption that Kosty will automatically "walk" in three years is foolish. Did Markov walk? Did Koivu? No, because those guys were developed within the organization and like it here. So there's no reason for pessimism at all.

Whether we'll be able to keep everyone (Komisarek, Higgins, both kostytsins, Price, Lats, O'Byrne, etc., etc.) in the longer term is certainly questionable - although it helps to recall that Kovy and Koivu, with their hefty contracts, will not be around forever. But here the mistake is in thinking that the rebuild is "done" and now we do nothing but live off the drafts of 2002-07. No, you have to keep drafting good young players who can replace the guys you do have to lose. That's how it works in a cap system, as I'm sure Bob is well aware. I like the Tanguay deal, but he can't keep doing that, and probably won't.

Anyone criticizing Bob for not trapping the team into ludicrous contracts for UFAs needs to lay off the crack. He identified the one UFA who could really solve our glaring long-running problem at C. He did everything he could to get him. With Detroit out of the running, I think we're very close to getting him still. There's no problem here.

That's one of the best posts I've seen anywhere. Simple and well reasoned.

[smon]

Komisarek, Plekanec and Higgins are 3 of the better value players in the NHL. Markov, Kovalev, and Koivu all have at the very least fair value contracts. No one makes over $6m. I think Gainey is managing the cap system quite well.

One only needs to look at a team like Florida paying 14 goal scorer Rostislav Olesz over $3m a year to realize Gainey isn't overpaying his young players.

The Komisarek/Higgins deals are top-notch, as are the ones for most of the younger guys. The thing with Olesz is that it's a 6 year deal - paying for potential. I'd imagine would require at least 5-6M for Kostitsyn for a 6 year deal.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of UFAs such as Roman Hamrlik. Or Mathieu Dandenault, or Steve Begin. Those aren't great value. They're useful players (Dandenault's iffy), but the salary is questionable.