What has happened to Habs fans?

[Quebecois]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Habs fans are the WORST on the planet. Now, that's a blanket statement, because for sure there are thousands of really, really good and knowledgeable fans, but when you count the morons as well? We make hooliganism look good.

Holy hyperbole Batman! Is O'Byrne receiving death threats right now? Is his life in danger? Please...keep the exaggerations to a minimum.

Go to any psychologist and that's what they'll tell you: you go with your dominant thought. If your dominant thought is that you hear boos when you touch the puck, you will have a natural propensity to making errors. They've done test after test on this stuff, it's not made up. You boo-birds are negatively affecting a player, a career, and the Canadiens club. If you boo O'Byrne more, he may make another critical error which could potentially cost the Habs a playoff spot, or a Cup, and perhaps even his career.

Komi never scored on his own net, but there were times when he was just awful back in the day. Why was he never booed like this? You don't think he went through stretches of horrible play? Do you think he'd be half the player he is today had his confidence been utterly wrecked by boo-birds voicing their opinions? The difference is that he was given slack because he was a first round pick and was slated to be some kind of savoiur. O'Byrne? Later round pick so the tether is short. He's making mistakes, ride him out of the city. Doesn't matter that he could very well become the next Komisarek with continued work, he's making mistakes now so boo him mercilessly.

The bolded part makes a lot of sense, and provides a good argument for booing players on the opposition. Anything to get an edge right?

As far as Komi goes, he was indeed terrible when he first came up. Maybe worse than O'Byrne. He just never had a spark that would have ignited the boo birds as O'Byrne did last night.

Somehow I think management has an infinitely better take on whether or not O'Byrne's play is a disgrace. Seem to me management managed to take a useless team circa 2000 and build them into a competitive team today. Surely, they must know something.

But you're right, boo consistently at O'Byrne and management. I'm sure that will help the situation. Boo until Ryan's confidence completely implodes, until he does more mistakes. Boo until you run him out of town, then boo until you run Carbo and Gainey out of town. When Houle and Tremblay take over...

And people wonder why we can't attract UFA's. "What a great place to play, this Montreal. Fans are soooo knowledgeable."

Please, we haven't attracted UFAs because Bob has been unwilling to fork over the dough. If professional athletes are that worried about being thrown under the bus by fans, then you wouldn't have anyone wanting to sign with the Philadelphia Eagles, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox of the world.

Look, I was disappointed with the O'Byrne chants last night as well. It's impossible to know how many fans were chanting and I genuinely felt terrible for the guy. The bottom line is, if I'm paying 100 bucks of my hard earned money, add in another 20 bucks for a couple of beers, there's a good chance I'm extremely upset when the Habs don't pull it out. Would I have chanted? I doubt it. Do i understand where these fans are coming from? Sure do.

It goes both ways.

Right now? "Habs fans suck, no class, omg they booed the poor kid, riots last year, booed the anthem move the team"

After the Rangers comeback game last year? "Wow best fans in the world!, stuck with their team even when down 5-0, willed the team back into the game, everyone must love to play in Montreal!"

[johnnyhasbeen]

I found it hard to believe that these were the same fans that got behind Price awhile back, after he had boned a couple.

Why can our star goalie make huge blunders that cost us goals and even games, but our young, and as everyone on here admits, still learning, defenceman gets crucified for them. True he hasn't had any stellar outings yet this year, but I for one believe he will have many great NHL games in his career.

As for booing the other guys....so what?

As you can all assume safely, I get way into live games when I get to go.

When the Vees were here I was even challenged to get on the ice once.

I avoided the game misconduct, even with a few in me.

Don't tell me you can't get into an opponents head with verbal abuse.

I pay my money and let it out, cheer loud, curse louder, boo bad calls, cheer hits and fights!

I boo players I particularly dislike for any given reason.

It is part of the live game experiance. Your adrenaline gets going more when you are there.

It is not a bad thing and as has been mentioned, they are pros and can handle it.

Fan abuse is part of the game, you deal with it.

When I was a Midget they chanted things like "Sieve" and "Its all your fault"

I laughed at it, really liked when I was away and they chanted my name. Figured I was doing good if they knew me!

What they did to O'Byrne was wrong and he better get some support from the faithful next outing!

In the heat of battle it happened, those who did it feel shame, I am sure.

Mob mentality, it got carried away. We shall overcome it!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Great thread!

A historical perspective: this goes back a long way. Read Habs' histories, such as Dick Irvin's incomparable The Habs, and you'll find that classy defenceman J.C. Tremblay was boored mercilessly by the Forum faithful back in the 1960s. For that matter, Frank Mahovlich was booed by Leafs' fans when he played for them. There may be earlier instances, for that matter.

Booing is indeed a very personal, very hurtful act. Players hate to be booed by the home crowd - either as a team or as individuals. Remember Phil Esposito's impassioned interview in the great 72 Series against the Soviets, where he ripped into Vancouver fans for booing the team? It hurt him personally to hear his team booed. Then there was the atrocious, impardonable example of Saku Koivu himself being booed by Montreal "fans" who had bought into some B.S. that Koivu was impeding Mike Ribeiro's development. Red Fisher's post-game report described him as "ashen-faced" (probably with rage). And we all know the Brisebois story, where relentless booing actually gave him a stress-induced heart condition.

Therefore, the argument that these are "pros" and ought to be able to "take the heat" doesn't hold up. No matter how much someone is paid, they still deserve to be treated like human beings - with a minimum of decency and respect. Everybody deserves this.

So when is booing justified? Well, booing a team has to be less hurtful than singling out an individual. It may be counter-productive for the fans to boo a team that is struggling, but I don't see any real moral problem with it. When fans care, they need some outlet to express their frustration, and booing is the best they've got.

What is usually inexcusable is this anonymous swarming and humiliation of an individual. All that is, is glorified collective bullying; it makes fans feel powerful, in their anonymity, to channel all their resentments (most of which have nothing to do with hockey) and direct them toward the degradation another person who is helpless to respond. In short, it's a version of a wider social phenomenon of scapegoating. You saw it in the schoolyard. It's no better in the hockey rink. It is doubly inexcusable when that player is just a kid, as in the case of O'Byrne.

The only time I could see home fans being justified in booing one of their own players is if that player is a Jagr or a Yashin or a Bure - one of these players who clearly does not give 100% to the team, or only plays well when he feels like it; or who actively hurts the team by doing things like holding out for ridiculous salary demands, or publicly bitching about teammates (as Ribeiro did when he blamed Ryder for his crappy numbers). A grey area is when the player has a huge contract but plays nowhere near the level that his contract would imply. In a cap system, that's actively hurting the team too. But this is a tougher call, because a player can hardly be blamed for agreeing to get paid a lot, and not one of the boo-birds would have done any differently.

Brisebois should never have been booed the way he was. He fit none of these criteria - he was overpaid, but not in a cap era; his crime was simply that he was being used as a #1 defenceman when he clearly wasn't. He also had the double whammy of playing on his wrong side for that notorious -31 season. For that, he was tarred and feathered, night after night. It's even worse in the case of O'Byrne. It's not inconceivable that a steady diet of this stuff could destroy his career. How would you like to have to face a crowd of bullies bent on your systematic humiliation every time you went to work? Not so much, huh? Then shut up and save the booing for recipients who actually deserve it.

Edited November 25, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[huzer]

It's just amazing to me that people can justify acting like idiots, and think that because they spent some cash, it gives them the right to do so. That it's acceptable behavior. That if I don't act like a tool when a player makes a mistake, that I'm being soft. Just absolutely amazes me. It's sad that management, and ambassadors of the team (Beliveau), have to remind some fans on occasion what classless idiots they are being.

I also think it's funny that people tend to confuse apathy with being polite.

Edited November 25, 2008 by huzer

[Quebecois]

It's just amazing to me that people can justify acting like idiots, and think that because they spent some cash, it gives them the right to do so. That it's acceptable behavior. That if I don't act like a tool when a player makes a mistake, that I'm being soft. Just absolutely amazes me. It's sad that management, and ambassadors of the team (Beliveau), have to remind some fans on occasion what classless idiots they are being.

I also think it's funny that people tend to confuse apathy with being polite.

What is your definition of acting like an idiot? If booing O'Byrne is wrong then what about booing a ref or an opposing player? I mean they are all human beings at the end of the day, it would be pretty disrespectful to boo any of em no?

[johnnyhasbeen]

What is your definition of acting like an idiot? If booing O'Byrne is wrong then what about booing a ref or an opposing player? I mean they are all human beings at the end of the day, it would be pretty disrespectful to boo any of em no?

My mother said it is rude to boo, always, it is fine to cheer for your team but not to boo the other.

I guess that is proper manners.

[Quebecois]

My mother said it is rude to boo, always, it is fine to cheer for your team but not to boo the other.

I guess that is proper manners.

That's all well and good, but this is not golf. This is hockey.

[huzer]

Booing the anthems, chanting O'Byrne's name at the end of the game. Singling out a specific player constantly. Reaction to a play, a call, a goal, a hit, or fight...I'm fine with that. I've booed and cheered at many a game. But for some reason, Habs fans have some attachment to singling out one player and just riding them until the end of time. Given what's happened in the past, I fully expect O'Byrne to get dumped on every time he doesn't play to perfection. A turnover here...he'll get booed, a missed assignment there, he'll get booed.

I can even let the "booing another team's player" slide. I think it's stupid and childish and don't condone it, but whatever. In the end I just find that foolish, unnecessary and reflects poorly on the fans.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

We have 24 championships since 1915. Canadiens fans have been spoiled. We are greedy. It's just the nature of who we are.

I'll put it this way using an opinion of a friend of mine who likes the Maple Leafs. He says the difference between the fans of the 2 teams is in Toronto a player will be adored and have non-deserving admiration thrust upon him even if he's a total loser and bum. In Toronto, losing isn't OK but it's not a stoning offence either.

In Montreal a loser or a total bum or losing is UNACCEPTABLE and IS a stoning offence!

We are greedy and spoiled fans and I wouldn't change a thing.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Athlétique.Canadien

[Fanpuck33]

I think all of you should listen to Fanpuck on this one...I was going to post something similar to what he wrote...but his two posts are so dead on that I don't even have to. When you put that CH on, you play your absolute hardest until your frigging lungs give out, i know so many youngsters who would DIE to play for the Habs and have that one shot, one opportunity to play for the most storied franchise in all of sports. Ryan O'Byrne by no means has been playing hard this season. When I was at the Ottawa game I was freaking out about him too. Why are so many habs fans so damn soft these days? Unlike other hockey markets...fans OBSESS and LIVE FOR this team. They should have known expectations were going to be sky high this season!!!

While I appreciate your compliment, part of what you are agreeing with is something I never said. By no means do I think O'Byrne is not giving his all. He's a young kid who knows he has to work to keep his spot. He is trying out there. The problem is that he is being thrust with too much responsibility and arguably should not even be at the NHL level at this point. Even before this incident he was playing without confidence. A player without confidence is not going to help this team win. He needs to go back to Hamilton and get his game together. As I mentioned in the thread about him, he is still very inexperienced professionally. He still can learn in the AHL. Down there he'll be able to get his confidence back up so that later in the year he can return to the Habs ready to make a positive contribution. All they're doing by continually playing him 18 minutes a game is hurting him. He isn't ready for it, so they're essentially setting him up to fail. That, more than anything the fans can do, will continue to hurt his psyche.

[ForumGhost]

Give me an arena with 200 classless fans and 21000 passionate screaming fans over some half-empty arena in Florida where no one cheers any day.

Edited November 25, 2008 by ForumGhost

[BTH]

I think all of you should listen to Fanpuck on this one...I was going to post something similar to what he wrote...but his two posts are so dead on that I don't even have to. When you put that CH on, you play your absolute hardest until your frigging lungs give out, i know so many youngsters who would DIE to play for the Habs and have that one shot, one opportunity to play for the most storied franchise in all of sports. Ryan O'Byrne by no means has been playing hard this season. When I was at the Ottawa game I was freaking out about him too. Why are so many habs fans so damn soft these days? Unlike other hockey markets...fans OBSESS and LIVE FOR this team. They should have known expectations were going to be sky high this season!!!

Yet I bet if any of those great kids you speak of were to play for the Habs, they'd all do 20 times worse than O'Byrne and you'd be ripping them to shreds on these boards. Forgiving him isn't about being soft, it's about being rational. He's a good prospect and a pretty good player, there's no reason to get rid of him or humiliate him to death because of one mistake. O'Byrne might wind up a great player for us within a year or less. It makes no sense to run a guy out of town just because you wish the team had someone better. The team doesn't have anyone better and they surely don't on the farm.

[JoeLassister]

I promess i won't get into that, but if you guys keep saying booing anthems are wrong...

[huzer]

I promess i won't get into that, but if you guys keep saying booing anthems are wrong...

Go boo the anthem at a political rally. You're at a sporting event. I'm here to watch hockey, not hear your well thought out political views, eloquently expressed by booing the national anthem. And I don't care if it happens in Montreal (more common, it seems) or anywhere else.

Edited November 25, 2008 by huzer

[Habsfan84]

The Habs fans are the most passonite fans in all of sports and though i dont think booing the national anthem is great, it shows that we have beliefs and will speak up against them when Bush decaleres war on other Countries. Obyrne was ok with the booing because frankly he deserved it.

They are hostile but damn are they the best fans in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MMPL]

What has happened to Habs fans?

The team has started the negativity and worries. Not the fans.

So the better question is, "What has happened to the Habs?"

I'd say it is a slump and nothing major, hope I'm right.

[JoeLassister]

Go boo the anthem at a political rally. You're at a sporting event. I'm here to watch hockey, not hear your well thought out political views, eloquently expressed by booing the national anthem. And I don't care if it happens in Montreal (more common, it seems) or anywhere else.

LOL what about booing TWO national anthems BECAUSE they are playing at a sporting event that involves INTERNATIONAL players ??? My loudest booos are going to the man that once thought it was a good idea to sing the national anthems at a sporting event other than the Olympics. Anyway, this is offtopic.

I think O'Byrne received a fair part of booos highlighting the fact that he was just not following the game. Fans made it clear that they (well, everyone) will not tolerate that players on the ice don't follow the game.

[Colin]

Please, we haven't attracted UFAs because Bob has been unwilling to fork over the dough. If professional athletes are that worried about being thrown under the bus by fans, then you wouldn't have anyone wanting to sign with the Philadelphia Eagles, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox of the world.

I think he bid the same amount as other teams in a few cases, they just chose to play elsewhere.

[tokyohabs]

Just read this thread, and it occurs to me several years too late now...if only we had cheered Mario Tremblay, he might still be with us! Aw shucks Mario, we're sorry.

My first game live was about 1976, I have heard booing of our players at nearly every game since then. This is not a new 'phenomenon' or 'development'.

When you try to apply objective rationale to a medium like fans at professional sports events, you're the one who is bonkers. And whoever compared Habs fans to hooliganism has no clue what they're on about. Happy clappers indeed. Here's an idea: if you don't like people booing, stand up and confront them about it.

[Colin]

Just read this thread, and it occurs to me several years too late now...if only we had cheered Mario Tremblay, he might still be with us! Aw shucks Mario, we're sorry.

My first game live was about 1976, I have heard booing of our players at nearly every game since then. This is not a new 'phenomenon' or 'development'.

When you try to apply objective rationale to a medium like fans at professional sports events, you're the one who is bonkers. And whoever compared Habs fans to hooliganism has no clue what they're on about. Happy clappers indeed. Here's an idea: if you don't like people booing, stand up and confront them about it.

Richard riots? Riots after Cups? Riots after series wins? No hooliganism there.

[JoeLassister]

Richard riots? Riots after Cups? Riots after series wins? No hooliganism there.

Please don't make the mistake to put the Richard's riot in the same category as After Cups and Series wins. Richard's riot was one political and the other ones were just stupid riots.

[Colin]

Please don't make the mistake to put the Richard's riot in the same category as After Cups and Series wins. Richard's riot was one political and the other ones were just stupid riots.

When is hooliganism not stupid? You're proving my point.

[JoeLassister]

Define Hooliganism.

[kaos]

Go boo the anthem at a political rally. You're at a sporting event. I'm here to watch hockey, not hear your well thought out political views, eloquently expressed by booing the national anthem. And I don't care if it happens in Montreal (more common, it seems) or anywhere else.

This statement is very true....you are at a sporting event....what should be added is that National Anthems have no business here when professional sports teams are playing. Fine have them at international events but keep them out of the NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA ect. They serve no purpose

[tokyohabs]

Define Hooliganism.

The Football Factory.

"what should be added is that National Anthems have no business here when professional sports teams are playing. Fine have them at international events but keep them out of the NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA ect. They serve no purpose"

Very well put kaos.

Edited December 2, 2008 by tokyohabs