Did we get better?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

And, I don't buy this "Too small" crap. Screw McGuire. You don't slam the door on a "Gionta" or a "Cammelleri" because your immediate concern is size. You welcome these guys and fix that when you can. I mean seriously. Imagine BOb saying to Cammeleri, "Thanks for considering us but we need size...bye"

Boo 'Urns to that!

[alexstream]

YES WE ARE!!! Of course this is an "IMO" but Cammelleri, Gomez and Gionta have one thing that is being overlooked by many right now. They have heart and they have guts. Many up until now many have complained that we were/are too Euro and soft and the Ruskies don't care etc. Cammelleri and Gionta play bigger than their size would suggest. Gomez is a talented player but does well at the pest role while playing well. Cammelleri :can: looks possessed when he is playing. They give a SH/T!!!

The D is a bit of a bummer. Spacek is a good QB. Gill is slow and immobile but shouldn't be any worse than Komisarek was when he found his own D game "LOST".

And, BOb says he's done but if an opportunity emerged he would improve the team so I take "being done" with a grain of salt.

We lost one Koivu and we got 3 players in a similar mold. younger, quicker and ... at least as good. (maybe a bit less heart and feistiness)

What is more important though, is that those three guys seem to have a better reputation league wide than Koivu.

Everyone is EXCITED to have Cammalleri on board

Cammalleri is EXCITED at the idea of playing with Gomez...

Gionta signed here because of Gomez.

Gomez Gomez Gomez.

That guy sounds to have a better reputation league wide than Saku.

[alexstream]

And, I don't buy this "Too small" crap. Screw McGuire. You don't slam the door on a "Gionta" or a "Cammelleri" because your immediate concern is size. You welcome these guys and fix that when you can. I mean seriously. Imagine BOb saying to Cammeleri, "Thanks for considering us but we need size...bye"

Boo 'Urns to that!

Koivu is too small, Higgins is too small. (no hate intended)

They play a Joe Thornton game.

I don't think CGG are "too small" for the game they are playing.

Gainey was talking about puck possession. They represent to me what puck possession is supposed to be.

Higgins and Koivu are "scrap it out in the corners" type, and for that, they were "too small".

[Dalhabs]

I have a feeling that the Molson's have told Gainey that if this season isnt successfull he is gone. And Gainey does the only thing he can. Use all caproom to sign and trade for players that will help now and might ruin the chances of resigning Price next summer.

[Chris]

I'll take 2 "too small" 40 goal scorers anytime. I can't even remember the last 40 goal scorer they had.

They averaged 1 30 goal guy per year. Think about that, that is sad.

In this case, size doesn't matter.

Those guys play big and have some rings to prove it.

As for Mcguire, once the season starts i'm sure some of those guys will be "MONSTERS" and he'll be back to having a man crush on them.

Price has no options, he resigns or doesn't play.

He could earn a raise though.

[BTH]

Yes, we improved on paper, and this was something I thought would be virtually impossible to do going into the offseason.

I think that even had we kept the same players we were going to be a much better team though.

My concern is whether the team we have fits into Martin's usual system. (I know he addressed this at his press conference).

More broadly, I'm kinda disgusted by the media's piling on. The general tone is one of sheer dismissive contempt. Dutatschek (sp?) in The Globe today dismissively says we're not a playoff team. I find this quite a stretch. They seem to be assuming that none of our younger players (Kostitsyns, Plekanec, Price, Latendresse, Weber, even O'Bryne) can possibly do better than last year, that coaching makes no difference, that Gomez cannot possibly top last season's 58 points, and that Cammalleri in particular cannot possibly duplicate for us what he did in Calgary and LA. Take ANY team and work with worst-case-scenarios and you can predict disaster. I think we are a dangerous, talented team full of character additions, and I cannot believe that if the Leafs or some other team had added Cammalleri we would be reading about what a mediocre signing that is. It's all part of a narrative of Montreal Disaster that the media have settled on. Nothing to do with reality, UNLESS their analysis is referring to the possibility of a future cap crunch. But saying this team sucks? Come on.

In a lot of ways the 'expert commentary' reminds me of the generalized attitude going into 2007-08: Nothing Can Possibly Get Better In Montreal. Well, I for one think the 'experts' are in for a 'little' surprise. This team will kill with speed and feistiness and be a real pain in the ass :hlogo:

What's a little bit strange is that the anglophone media (e.g. TSN) are blasting our moves but the guys on RDS have repeatedly applauded the moves and referred to Gainey's July 1st as a huge success. I think that's because from an outsider's point of view, the "correct" move was to keep the old bunch and play it safe, while people who've followed the Habs closely had mostly decided to replace the core.

[brobin]

We have gutted out the "leadership" who constantly quit on coaches, had riffs in the room, etc. That alone will make this a better team. The Kots boys best wake up and realize that the guys who put up with them are gone. The coach won't take any shit. The first line will teach these guys what playing hard is all about. This could be very good.

[rafikz]

The most important thing is that Gainey is creating a group with an identity, which is a solid group of pros.

No more controversies (hopefully), less party boys, etc...

I think the revamped Habs will show up every single night; and if Price delivers next season, we'll be seriously competitive (barring injuries of course)

Edited July 2, 2009 by rafikz

[kenadian]

I think Bob did what had to be done. He made offers to some of the UFA's that were "in the ballpark" of what they got[will get] elsewhere. And when it was obvious to Bob they weren't going to resign he HAD to got to the next option. He's waited the last couple years (and we missed out on signing UFA's) and everyone was bitching he didn't do enough etc....

So this year he was proactive IMO, did he overpay? maybe, but that's what signing UFA's IS.........you have to be the top bidder to lure them away from other teams. Had he waited for current players to decide on the Habs offers (and then missed out on who we actiually signed), all the good UFA's would have probably signed elsewhere.

So I'm going to enjoy the rest of my summer and come training camp I'm going to be more excited than the last couple of years.

[KoZed]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I dont think we're more talented. Both Tanguay & Kovy are more naturally talented than any of the 3 guys we got. We got younger, we got speedier... but above all else, we got go-to guys who are better team players. We had too many egos, too many vets with their own personal agendas. They never really meshed together and they also never really did their leadership job, ie. never took enough care of all the young players on our team.

With Cammalleri, Gomez & Gionta I see more humble guys, experienced vets who are closer in age to the rest of our roster and probably have more in common with them than Koivu or Kovalev had. Gionta isnt an upgrade on Kovalev, nowhere near as much puckhandling skills or as deadly a shot or as feared; but I think he'll fit in much better in a team concept than Kovy was. Look at Hal Gill or Spacek, those guys are as low-key and humble as they come.

I think we lost raw, pure talent; but I think we gained something greater. What ultimately failed us was the lack of team spirit. And I think now we have players who are more excited about playing together and who will be better at all pulling together for the same goal.

[ForumGhost]

Don't forget that Gomez and Gionta have no only played together, the battled their way to a Stanley cup together and put dual career seasons together on the same line! Gainey said it was Gomez that made him decide on Gionta over Tanguay, and I think that was a smart move.

Plus, we just got 4 Stanley cup rings on our team. How's that for experience!

[KoZed]

Don't forget that Gomez and Gionta have no only played together, the battled their way to a Stanley cup together and put dual career seasons together on the same line! Gainey said it was Gomez that made him decide on Gionta over Tanguay, and I think that was a smart move.

Plus, we just got 4 Stanley cup rings on our team. How's that for experience!

It was Cammalleri over Tanguay because Gainey wanted a shooter. Gionta won over Kovalev because Kovy waited too long to reply.

[The Saint]

What's a little bit strange is that the anglophone media (e.g. TSN) are blasting our moves but the guys on RDS have repeatedly applauded the moves and referred to Gainey's July 1st as a huge success. I think that's because from an outsider's point of view, the "correct" move was to keep the old bunch and play it safe, while people who've followed the Habs closely had mostly decided to replace the core.

Yo BTH - I absolutely agree with your perspective on this. In fact, I have flipped and flopped over how I feel for the past day and a half. I have listened to the so-called experts (TSN mainly, Sportsnet, Canadian Press etc...) read you guys, many of whom I consider more expert (on the Habs), as I consider myself. I do not mean in a professional way, but in a dedicated observer way, one who has not just watched almost every game of the past 5 years, but truly observed and experienced the oddities, the strange patterns the crazy runs of momentum and the horrendous crashes. It is difficult for many of us, who respect some of these players for various reasons, on and off-ice included and I understand the state of confusion and trepidation that many of us are feeling.

The RDS guys are more like many of us, (maybe only in this way -not trying to start a riot...and except for their paychecks). Really, this change is deep. Like it or not, it truly changes the face of the team and hopefully for the better and frankly after last season how could it get much worse?

These are crazy times and all i can do right now is look forward to next season with a positive outlook. At least that is what I will attempt to keep on doing, though admittedly there are elements of scepticism regarding cap waste, talent/asset management and a concern that size is a factor, regardless of what my heart tells me.

:hlogo:

[KoZed]

What's a little bit strange is that the anglophone media (e.g. TSN) are blasting our moves but the guys on RDS have repeatedly applauded the moves and referred to Gainey's July 1st as a huge success. I think that's because from an outsider's point of view, the "correct" move was to keep the old bunch and play it safe, while people who've followed the Habs closely had mostly decided to replace the core.

It's like breaking up with a long-time girlfriend all your family and friends knew and hooking up with a new chick. Everybody around you blasts your move, but they're outsiders. They dont know your ex was nagging non-stop, couldnt be trusted in important times and wasnt even shaving her legs anymore.

[ch_nl]

Koivu, Higgins, Kovalev, Komisarek, Lang and Tanguay for Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Spacek and Gill.

If someone would have posted this as a trade proposal then he or she would have been called insane. Basicly this is what happened.

Player for player the Habs are a weaker team. I think Cammalleri is the only uppgrade. I could be the only one, but Im actually glad the Koivu era is over. Loved him as person but Montreal always expected too much from him. He never was anything but a second line centre.

I also find it hard to understand why Robert Lang having such a hard time to find a team to stick with. When healthy he was one of our best players last year. And Kovalev... Have to have one of thoose on your team.

But in the end it's always about chemistry. Gionta and Gomez reunited and it works well everybody will bless Gainey. Cammalleri showing he's not a fluke and can stay at the level and this team might be great.

I think Komisarek was asking for too much. Even if he played at the All-stars he will never be anything but a defensive body.

[habs rule]

we are a better team no question. We have guys who want to be here, can't say that for Gomez yet, but he is part of the reason the other guys came. The guys who left, komi etc did not really want to be here yeah probably kovy did but I am not sure saku wanted to come back. I think even he realized that after the monumental fork up that last year was, this team had to change. Last years team really let Bob down. He took it personally. I don't think there was a man on this planet more disappointed than Bob at the lack of effort this team showed last year. Hell he had to fire a guy who has been his friend for 30 years. Bob is a very loyal man and that really had to hurt especially when he realized it was not Guy's fault, he had a bunch of losers on the team. Guys that he had nurtured and protected and paid very well and had great faith in, they knifed him in the back and they are GONE. Yep it is a better team.

[Wamsley01]

Koivu, Higgins, Kovalev, Komisarek, Lang and Tanguay for Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Spacek and Gill.

If someone would have posted this as a trade proposal then he or she would have been called insane. Basicly this is what happened.

Player for player the Habs are a weaker team. I think Cammalleri is the only uppgrade. I could be the only one, but Im actually glad the Koivu era is over. Loved him as person but Montreal always expected too much from him. He never was anything but a second line centre.

I also find it hard to understand why Robert Lang having such a hard time to find a team to stick with. When healthy he was one of our best players last year. And Kovalev... Have to have one of thoose on your team.

But in the end it's always about chemistry. Gionta and Gomez reunited and it works well everybody will bless Gainey. Cammalleri showing he's not a fluke and can stay at the level and this team might be great.

I think Komisarek was asking for too much. Even if he played at the All-stars he will never be anything but a defensive body.

Removing the contracts and the ages and looking at the players straight up this is not insane.

If you are trading the 2008 version of Kovalev and the 2007 version of Koivu then you have a point.

If you are trading the 2009 versions for the 2009 Cammallari, the 2006 Gionta and the 2008 Gomez is it insane?

Home fans tend to overrate their own players.

Komisarek was brutal last year and the home fan takes that into account that he was injured, yet blasts Gomez for underperforming

with little to zero knowledge as to why. Gionta's career 2006 is ignored as fluke, Kovalev was great 2 years ago and was brutal last year

matching a career pattern of inconsistency, and? so, he is so exciting to watch.

Spacek was 17th in D scoring yet is treated as though he is overpaid at 3.75M.

This is not fantasy hockey, there are chemistry issues, coachability, experience etc.

So if you put those names on the board, of course you would get a NO WAY. It is called emotional attachment, and it was the reason

for the freak out on the board yesterday. Having the core of a team that you are attached to being ripped apart is traumatic.

But once you realize that these players are now Montreal Canadiens your perception of their ability will change in time and you

will likely overrate them.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Wamsley01

[Colin]

Komisarek was brutal last year and the home fan takes that into account that he was injured, yet blasts Gomez for underperforming

with little to zero knowledge as to why.

I believe Gomez had an ankle injury early in the season and struggled after that (Nov 8, maybe?). He only missed five games, but from the little I've read (no links, sorry, it was a while back and I never copied the links) he struggled to find form. More than likely, he was somewhat rushed back considering the Rags were going through the usual Rag struggles. And, as I understand it (and have gone through it) ankles take 8 weeks to hit proper shape, but still hurt for months after that. (Have torn one of my ankles a leg-bending five times. Doctors, on each occasion, said the same thing.)

[Fanpuck33]

Spacek was 17th in D scoring yet is treated as though he is overpaid at 3.75M.

My problem with Spacek's deal is the term, not the money. I think it's crazy to give over 35 players multi-year deals when they count against the cap, even if they retire. Though, I do wonder if retirement can be treated like a long term injury. Anyone know?

[soflhabfan]

hopefully this will be more of a TEAM. the k brothers need to clean up after last season. and with higgins gone, perhaps gorges and price can study opposing teams at nite instead of beer bottles.i wish kovy and beachemin could be added. still feel we need more grit on defense.with henry resigned for next year, he's just a call up away.still not happy with martinas coach. hopefully the gainey/martin tandem will be short lived.i would imagine if this ufa blitz doesn't work out, then bg will be cleaning his desk out at some point next year.hard to figure the psych of this team right now. think they'll either be real ggod, or real bad, with no middle ground.i think the key players this year could be the k bros and plek.if plek can bury most of his many chances, we'll be fine. so many IFS.......

[KoZed]

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I dont think we're more talented. Both Tanguay & Kovy are more naturally talented than any of the 3 guys we got. We got younger, we got speedier... but above all else, we got go-to guys who are better team players. We had too many egos, too many vets with their own personal agendas. They never really meshed together and they also never really did their leadership job, ie. never took enough care of all the young players on our team.

With Cammalleri, Gomez & Gionta I see more humble guys, experienced vets who are closer in age to the rest of our roster and probably have more in common with them than Koivu or Kovalev had. Gionta isnt an upgrade on Kovalev, nowhere near as much puckhandling skills or as deadly a shot or as feared; but I think he'll fit in much better in a team concept than Kovy was. Look at Hal Gill or Spacek, those guys are as low-key and humble as they come.

I think we lost raw, pure talent; but I think we gained something greater. What ultimately failed us was the lack of team spirit. And I think now we have players who are more excited about playing together and who will be better at all pulling together for the same goal.

Hmm, interestingly enough, Habs Prez Pierre Boivin basically told the same thing I did to the SRC in an interview yesterday: http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/hockey/2...vin-jeudi.shtml

In short, Boivin said the team would be more united, and that the new environment would be "more stable, motivating and (cant find an english word for "entrainant", it means something that makes you want to get up and do something).

He said the 5 new guys would better take care of the young guys.

Said a word about there only be 4 francos left on the team (including Weber): "Talent comes first. We tried all we could to get more, but we have to work with what we have. What matters is to have a talented and competitive team, but we keep an eye on them (French players)"

[Colin]

"Did we get better."

I dunno, but we're a damn sight more sexy.

[tokyohabs]

Hmm, interestingly enough, Habs Prez Pierre Boivin basically told the same thing I did to the SRC in an interview yesterday: http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/hockey/2...vin-jeudi.shtml

That's because...

you are Pierre Boivin?

Cammmmallllerrrri and Gionta and Spacek are very talented; Gomez is a decent player, Gill is whatever. Don't think our talent 'downgrade' was actually all that significant.

Plus, anyone who watched any of our playoffs last season knows that the core had to be changed. Bob changed the core...ripped it out. Kudos to him for going hard with change. His message since the off season began has been very clear, from coaching staff to players, about what is unacceptable.