[Game Thread] Calgary Flames @ MONTREAL CANADIENS

[Chris]

I got a chance to read some of the other psosts and i'm not really sure why everyone is on the top 3 new guys. The truth is they are the ony players scoring and are dangerous. When they play together they get chances every night, they obviously don't bury them all. The only other forward scoring is Pleks. Moen and Metro are where they should be.

Lats, lapierre, AK46 had about 60 goals last year combined, i think thye have 3 more then i do right now. They are on pace for a whopping 16b goals this year.

The REAL problem with the team is the young players not progressing, they are actually regressing. I like Pacioretty so far, 1 more on the checking line and i expect he'll grow into a top 6 guy.

Lats and Lapierre are at this point worthless, Pyatt and White are doing a better job.

Chipchura is a bust, injury caused that i beleive.

They are still without there best player.

[Habsfan]

I can't believe there's still all this crap about Price vs Halak.

Both goalies are doing a decent job. Neither one of them is excellent, and neither one of them has outplayed the other one by a mile.

As long as our young guys keep struggling (AK46, Lats, Laps, MaxPac) the habs will struggle. The goalies aren't responsible for the 8-10 record or the fact that we can't score more than 2.5 goals per game!!!

Edited November 11, 2009 by Habsfan

[Trizzak]

Hmmm, Trizz? It's not the loss that get people complaining about secondary scoring. That topic has been on the air for a while in various thread. People are second guessing Gainey's moves. It's just that losing 1-0 underlines it even more.

Like I said, you chose a bad game to try to make the point of people having double standards when it comes to Halak & Price. In the TB game Price allowed two iffies, the 3rd one being a back-breaker when the Habs are trying to get back in the game. Tonight Halak allows 1 goal mid-first and then keeps the Habs in the game the rest of the whole 50 mins left. You should be honest enough to admit it makes a ton of difference.

Halak in nets = we win.

Whether you said it just to antagonize the Price supporters, or whether you actually believed that Halak was going to be the difference in the team winning or losing, I think my satire speaks to both of those options.

Of course Halak played great and of course this loss isn't his fault. But if against Tampa Bay, Price played like Halak did against Calgary, Montreal still doesn't win the game, and it would be nice if those crusading against Price actually acknowledged other problems the team has when Price is in net instead of looking at the goals against and automatically stating "Price's fault." It's tiresome and weakens the argument.

[v-hab]

I got a chance to read some of the other psosts and i'm not really sure why everyone is on the top 3 new guys. The truth is they are the ony players scoring and are dangerous. When they play together they get chances every night, they obviously don't bury them all. The only other forward scoring is Pleks. Moen and Metro are where they should be.

Lats, lapierre, AK46 had about 60 goals last year combined, i think thye have 3 more then i do right now. They are on pace for a whopping 16b goals this year.

The REAL problem with the team is the young players not progressing, they are actually regressing. I like Pacioretty so far, 1 more on the checking line and i expect he'll grow into a top 6 guy.

Lats and Lapierre are at this point worthless, Pyatt and White are doing a better job.

Chipchura is a bust, injury caused that i beleive.

They are still without there best player.

Habitforming “ This thread is the reason this board is dying . . .Disgusting” This thread is not the only reason it is dying, new member’s with new ideas and new points of view, are intimidated and clash with the long time established membership. Almost like the same ten members have formed a elite clique. The sad part is, this board has so much hockey knowledge and information to share compared with other habs boards. I read every day, but post very little.

JoeL assister & Chris Really like reading your posts, and have learned much, or at the very least, have had to give a second thought when I had a different opinion .

Chris, I completely disagree with you on Chipchura, in fact I believe he was playing his best hockey in a long time before being assigned to the press box. His faceoff % has improved, his skating has improved, and plays with a edge when it comes to standing up for his team-mates. He was NOT a big time goal scorer. On the Junior gold medal team (captain ) he was a defensive specialist-PK and was drafted for that position. 3rd. and 4th. line players are not expected to carry a team.

Perhaps a fourth line of; Stewart/Pyatt- Chipchura, and White/ Stewart would be more effective.

If there is anyone that actually believes Metropolit will lead this team to a cup is in for a sad awakening . He is a career third or fourth line player with age and we have a abundance of young players waiting for a spot on those lines.

Lapierre is a proven very good third line centre, why judge his effectiveness when he has been forced into a wing position, on the second line. ‘The Peter Principal’ effect.

I often wonder if Brisebois had not bee signed for 08/09, perhaps O’Byrne would have developed into a top 6 player with confidence as we have today, much sooner than he did playing top 4.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Is this board dying? Discuss.

[Habsfan]

Is this board dying? Discuss.

I don't think so. But with the Habs sucking as much as they've been this year, it's normal to see this many arguments. When the team wins, everythinig is generally alot smoother!

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I take my vacations. There's reason for that. But we're Habs fans and we don't all think alike. One of my friends who is a fan thinks Gainey is supreme while another wants me to tell him when he gets fired. We don't all agree.

I think the trouble on the board happens when a poster condescends another - especially when a newbie is attacked or called "crazy" or something similar. The worst happens during struggles and that's where we are right now.

I agree with a lot and I disagee. Wamsley01 is an excellent poster and I loved his goalie post at eyesontheprize. But sometimes I even disagree with him (Usually 1 out of 200 times ). I don't FULLY agree with him posting the concern about the money and cap being tied up with Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez. He has a point in that cap movement will make moves difficult. However, imagine a genie popped out of his bottle and magically made Getzlaf a Canadien. Our 3 prized acquisition players are an excellent foundation or nucleus to introduce a "Getzlaf" and all of a sudden make us dangerous. We are one player away with the correct compliments on the lines to give us potency. Where Wamsley01 is (IMO) correct is A) "Where or how are we going to get a Getzlaf? Yeah right AC" and B) "How can we structure this player or players into our front loaded cap lineup?"

The thing I realized from training camp and up until today and don't readily like to admit is that we are not complete and 2009-10 is a transition year with the strategy being to get that impact power forward via 2010 free agency. Gainey's gamble was on Kostitsyn and Plekanec filling the void - Pleks is going strong but it's not good enough without contribution from Kosty. 2009-10 Gainey gamble on secondary scoring looks to be a fail. If we float at .5 and remain floating around the 8th position by January we may be OK. Gainey MIGHT be able to round the roster out at the deadline....

....I hope

Edited November 11, 2009 by Athlétique.Canadien

[Chris]

V-habs, as i stated earlier on Chipchura, 0 points and minus 8 for your 4th line centre isn't good. I am simply saying i haven't seen anything out of him that makes him a must have on the roster. Pyatt in 4 games has already done more then Chipchura. I have nothing against Chipchura, i think there are others ahead of him. So for a 1st round pick, he hasn't done anything. He can't even make a 4th line centre.

[JoeLassister]

"Blame Price that much"? Just look at the freaking replay of the goal. http://canadiens.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?h...414&fr=true

First off, the Habs are trailing by 1, defensemen will pinch in to keep the puck in the offensive zone. You will give 2-on-1's if you're trying to score a goal by all means possible.

2nd of all, Tanguay just sent fumbled with the pass and sent a feeble backhander toward the net. Price had make his lateral movement, he was there. He just missed the puck completely. You could make a case that if Gorges doesnt trip over himself he could have swapped the puck from behind Price before Wright got there, but the goalie is supposed to stop that shitty shot.

What the hell ??? Just looked back at the replay for the 5th time this week. 2 things :

1. This is a bad pinch decision by a somewhat slow dman who've been on the ice for 1min or so already.

2. Tanguay's play is just AMAZING. One timer skate reception - backhand shot. The force on the shot is not the hardest but still decent. Can Price stop that, maybe. Is this a iffie, I don't think so.

Gotta give credit to other teams sometimes instead of blaming the Habs, especially on these kind of play : a mix of 2 on 1, hit the post, scramble.

[Colin]

Is this board dying? Discuss.

Yes, slowly.

As mentioned, there's an 'elite' few who feel they have to press their "knowledge" upon others and disparage any idea which doesn't conform to theirs.

While spirited discussion and critical argument are excellent, flogging a dead horse is tiresome and redundant.

There have been unfortunate incidents where newcomers have posted something the boards have previously talked about and they are immediately attacked by various the 'elite' for not reading the entire boards to find the appropriate place, or for not having an idea which properly conformed to the established ideals.

We do NOT welcome new posters with open arms, we generally slag them until they, essentially, leave us alone.

There have been unfortunate instances where moderation was done not intellectually, but emotionally, and therefore there has occurred a form of censorship.

The HabsWorld.net main page doesn't haven nearly the consistent coverage needed to encourage growth in the forums.

[Habitforming]

Yes, slowly.

As mentioned, there's an 'elite' few who feel they have to press their "knowledge" upon others and disparage any idea which doesn't conform to theirs.

While spirited discussion and critical argument are excellent, flogging a dead horse is tiresome and redundant.

There have been unfortunate incidents where newcomers have posted something the boards have previously talked about and they are immediately attacked by various the 'elite' for not reading the entire boards to find the appropriate place, or for not having an idea which properly conformed to the established ideals.

We do NOT welcome new posters with open arms, we generally slag them until they, essentially, leave us alone.

There have been unfortunate instances where moderation was done not intellectually, but emotionally, and therefore there has occurred a form of censorship.

The HabsWorld.net main page doesn't haven nearly the consistent coverage needed to encourage growth in the forums.

Hmmmm........

[JoeLassister]

The HabsWorld.net main page doesn't haven nearly the consistent coverage needed to encourage growth in the forums.

Only 1 solution : reset the news !

[RJP]

Yes, slowly.

As mentioned, there's an 'elite' few who feel they have to press their "knowledge" upon others and disparage any idea which doesn't conform to theirs.

While spirited discussion and critical argument are excellent, flogging a dead horse is tiresome and redundant.

There have been unfortunate incidents where newcomers have posted something the boards have previously talked about and they are immediately attacked by various the 'elite' for not reading the entire boards to find the appropriate place, or for not having an idea which properly conformed to the established ideals.

We do NOT welcome new posters with open arms, we generally slag them until they, essentially, leave us alone.

There have been unfortunate instances where moderation was done not intellectually, but emotionally, and therefore there has occurred a form of censorship.

The HabsWorld.net main page doesn't haven nearly the consistent coverage needed to encourage growth in the forums.

[jackp]

No guys seriously. I am angry! Furious that Halak let that goal in. We had a chance to win and bottom line is he let his team down. Calgary's goalie let in less goals than our goalie. I am sick of weak goaltending deciding our fate!

You can try to change history all you want with your sarcasm. NO ONE complained about Price when he let in a single goal against Boston. On the contrary, he was praised, even by me!

The complaints came in when he let in *3* goals on 27 shots (and similar such games).

Sure, part of your point is well made, that team scoring is a huge problem. But we were behind last night 1-0, *the entire game.* We weren't behind 3-0 or 3-1. Halak gave us a chance to tie or win the game *the entire time.*

[jackp]

National news agencies never call me up for my opinion, but I think Mr G made necessary moves this year. We WERE going for it all, and we didn't make it with terrible injuries and the subsequent downloading of the team weight onto kid Price. He got Lang, Tanguay....did a simply wonderful job. And it didn't work out. Man proposes, Allah disposes as the Muslims say.

It was time to gear up again and try to re-ignite the team. He had to gamble with Price and should at least give him this season to do or die. Losing Markov is a very big loss to this team, and I suspect we'd have a different dynamic if he were with us, but c'est la vie.

In short I think Mr G has done an excellent job as GM and continues to do so. I am happier than hell, I have not had to look at him in the Leaf box for the last few years.

Carry on uncle Bob and I'll try to have the good sense to see the course you're steering with a club that doesn't have the luxury of tanking a season, but which has to get the job done with late draft picks and entertaining hockey.

I lost my faith in Bob when he refused to switch goalies in the Boston series last year, when it was obvious Price was struggling. I've never seen a coach do that before. Contrast that with Boudreau in Washington who made the switch instantly when Theodore had a bad 1st game.

The Carbonneau firing was also suspect, seeing as Bob did even worse than Guy with the same team.

[Fanpuck33]

National news agencies never call me up for my opinion, but I think Mr G made necessary moves this year. We WERE going for it all, and we didn't make it with terrible injuries and the subsequent downloading of the team weight onto kid Price. He got Lang, Tanguay....did a simply wonderful job. And it didn't work out. Man proposes, Allah disposes as the Muslims say.

It was time to gear up again and try to re-ignite the team. He had to gamble with Price and should at least give him this season to do or die. Losing Markov is a very big loss to this team, and I suspect we'd have a different dynamic if he were with us, but c'est la vie.

The thing is, Bob has essentially admitted that his first five years were a total failure. His five year plan ended with an 8 seed and a first round sweep. He then completely blew up the team. What he did wasn't "gearing up again." That would have meant keeping the core together and triying to improve upon it. Instead, he dismantled the core of the team and is now starting over with half a new team.

The only way Bob's first five years can be deemed anything other than a failure is if a whole bunch of prospects become excellent players. His first netted Grabovski and Streit, who are both gone, and Chipchura. Nothing helping us there. 2005 netted Price, Latendresse, D'Agostini, and SKost, none of whom have established themselves yet as difference makers. Price obviously has shown signs of being a difference maker, but not consistently. 2006 and on is really too soon to say anything, as the guys who have played have barely done so. The likes of Price, Latendresse, Subban, Pacioretty, Fischer, Weber, Carle, LeBlanc, etc. are going to need to come up big in the future for those first 5 years not to have been a total waste.

[jackp]

As far as the board is going... I'm not aware that it's dying. Sure, there's been spirited arguing, which sometimes turns personal, but I think that's the sign of a healthy board, not a stagnant one.

Years ago, I belonged to a Habs mailing list which at one point, had hundreds of subscribers. A new owner stepped in after a number of "healthy" vibrant years, and started to censor posts and demand "etiquette." I warned him that this would kill the mailing list... and it did. By time I left, there were probably 10 members remaining. It took a mere year for this to happen.

I agree that one shouldn't tell a newbie to "read the thread" or "read the FAQ." But I don't think discourse hurts the board. Someone writes something that I disagree with or (god forbid!) criticizes me, makes me *want to respond,* not clam up.

I don't think most people are so timid that having someone mouth off on them, scares them into shutting up. If board membership or posts are down, I think it has more to do with how the Habs are doing. For many (including me), it's depressing - makes you feel like saying, "ah f--k it! I'm not gonna get worked up over that bunch." JMHO

[Habsy]

As far as the board is going... I'm not aware that it's dying. Sure, there's been spirited arguing, which sometimes turns personal, but I think that's the sign of a healthy board, not a stagnant one.

Years ago, I belonged to a Habs mailing list which at one point, had hundreds of subscribers. A new owner stepped in after a number of "healthy" vibrant years, and started to censor posts and demand "etiquette." I warned him that this would kill the mailing list... and it did. By time I left, there were probably 10 members remaining. It took a mere year for this to happen.

I agree that one shouldn't tell a newbie to "read the thread" or "read the FAQ." But I don't think discourse hurts the board. Someone writes something that I disagree with or (god forbid!) criticizes me, makes me *want to respond,* not clam up.

I don't think most people are so timid that having someone mouth off on them, scares them into shutting up. If board membership or posts are down, I think it has more to do with how the Habs are doing. For many (including me), it's depressing - makes you feel like saying, "ah f--k it! I'm not gonna get worked up over that bunch." JMHO

I agree with you jackp. While I find you completely out to lunch on goaltending, lol, I enjoy the lively debate. And at the end of the day, any habs fan is a friend of mine.

[KoZed]

What the hell ??? Just looked back at the replay for the 5th time this week. 2 things :

1. This is a bad pinch decision by a somewhat slow dman who've been on the ice for 1min or so already.

2. Tanguay's play is just AMAZING. One timer skate reception - backhand shot. The force on the shot is not the hardest but still decent. Can Price stop that, maybe. Is this a iffie, I don't think so.

Gotta give credit to other teams sometimes instead of blaming the Habs, especially on these kind of play : a mix of 2 on 1, hit the post, scramble.

1. That kind of pinch happens often. If you noticed, Mara's not even on his side because guess which other D wasnt there?

2. Come on JoeLass. A pee-wee goalie could have stopped that 8 mph backhander. That's what probably fooled him in the first place. Still he's right there waiting for the shot!

[KoZed]

Whether you said it just to antagonize the Price supporters, or whether you actually believed that Halak was going to be the difference in the team winning or losing, I think my satire speaks to both of those options.

Of course Halak played great and of course this loss isn't his fault. But if against Tampa Bay, Price played like Halak did against Calgary, Montreal still doesn't win the game, and it would be nice if those crusading against Price actually acknowledged other problems the team has when Price is in net instead of looking at the goals against and automatically stating "Price's fault." It's tiresome and weakens the argument.

I said it because I believed it, and Halak ended up with the 2nd star and only a shutout by Kipper (elite as they come) could outdo him.

I am not crusading against Price. I tried to stay away from the endless debate as much as possible. But I call the shots like I see them and when the difference is the goalie as it was in the game vs Atlanta, I'll call it.

This "goalie controversy" is nothing compared to Hackett vs Theodore. That was 100 times more intense than this. It was old vs new, anglo vs franco, classy vs cocky, Hackett had made comments about Garon being better than Theo, etc. Price vs Halak is small stuff, really.

Now that I look back, even Soetart vs Penney vs Roy in 85-86 was more heated than this. Roy vs Hayward had its moments, especially when Roy was constantly weak on long shots. Then there was T-Bo vs Moog, Theo vs Huet, Huet vs Price... really, I've seen more seasons with goalie controversies than seasons when the #1 was unanimous. So no, I'm no crusading against or for a goalie anymore. It's pointless either way.

[jackp]

I agree with you jackp. While I find you completely out to lunch on goaltending, lol, I enjoy the lively debate. And at the end of the day, any habs fan is a friend of mine.

Yep, I agree. There's not a guy on this board whom I wouldn't invite to watch a game if they were in the Mississauga area. I've probably already mentioned this (encroaching Alzheimers) but every Leafs/Habs game, I have a bunch of friends over. Some are Leafs fans and some are Habs. It's an absolute blast - with all the teasing and exaggerated braying when one team or the other scores. When the teams were more even, a few sous might have switched hands also. (Leaf fans are not betting this year - I wonder why?)

I actually met a guy years ago from the Habs mailing list, whom I had often disagreed with. As you might expect, we had quite a laugh over some of our more acrimonious comments.

I'll even expand your comment about "any Habs fan is a friend of mine," to any *sports* fan is a friend of mine. We all belong to that crazy misguided bunch of lunatics who live or die based on whether a round disc gets placed in a certain area, or a spheroid ball gets carried or passed across an arbitrary line. Go figure! (But as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't change a damn thing!)

[habs rule]

As far as the board is going... I'm not aware that it's dying. Sure, there's been spirited arguing, which sometimes turns personal, but I think that's the sign of a healthy board, not a stagnant one.

Years ago, I belonged to a Habs mailing list which at one point, had hundreds of subscribers. A new owner stepped in after a number of "healthy" vibrant years, and started to censor posts and demand "etiquette." I warned him that this would kill the mailing list... and it did. By time I left, there were probably 10 members remaining. It took a mere year for this to happen.

I agree that one shouldn't tell a newbie to "read the thread" or "read the FAQ." But I don't think discourse hurts the board. Someone writes something that I disagree with or (god forbid!) criticizes me, makes me *want to respond,* not clam up.

I don't think most people are so timid that having someone mouth off on them, scares them into shutting up. If board membership or posts are down, I think it has more to do with how the Habs are doing. For many (including me), it's depressing - makes you feel like saying, "ah f--k it! I'm not gonna get worked up over that bunch." JMHO

hey jackp i finally agree with one of your posts. well thought out. I bet that makes your day.

[jackp]

hey jackp i finally agree with one of your posts. well thought out. I bet that makes your day.

Thank you... and I'm not gonna bite!!!

[Sir_Boagalott]

1. That kind of pinch happens often. If you noticed, Mara's not even on his side because guess which other D wasnt there?

2. Come on JoeLass. A pee-wee goalie could have stopped that 8 mph backhander. That's what probably fooled him in the first place. Still he's right there waiting for the shot!

I think blaming Mara is silly. How much time does a goalie need to be prepared to stop a break away that starts 140 feet away? Even mistakes that happen at the other teams blue line result in goals basically every time.

I wont say Price should have had it, but it wasnt that hard of shot. However for the people wanting to place blame on that goal blame Laps. Watch him float back and not do much to try to stop Tangs. If Laps had put a bit more effort into actually back checking instead of just back skating he could have tried to accost Tangs in some way instead of just gliding along behind Tangs. Also Gui was uber weak with with the puck which lead to Mara loosing it at the blue line. Gui started that entire sequence.

I am not crusading against Price. I tried to stay away from the endless debate as much as possible. But I call the shots like I see them and when the difference is the goalie as it was in the game vs Atlanta, I'll call it.

Here here. When somebody makes a stupid mistake I will definitely point it out. I dont care who it is or how big of a following they have.

In the Cal game both Kipper and Halak were good, but Kipper was just a bit better.

[v-hab]

Yes, slowly.

As mentioned, there's an 'elite' few who feel they have to press their "knowledge" upon others and disparage any idea which doesn't conform to theirs.

While spirited discussion and critical argument are excellent, flogging a dead horse is tiresome and redundant.

There have been unfortunate incidents where newcomers have posted something the boards have previously talked about and they are immediately attacked by various the 'elite' for not reading the entire boards to find the appropriate place, or for not having an idea which properly conformed to the established ideals.

We do NOT welcome new posters with open arms, we generally slag them until they, essentially, leave us alone.

There have been unfortunate instances where moderation was done not intellectually, but emotionally, and therefore there has occurred a form of censorship.

The HabsWorld.net main page doesn't haven nearly the consistent coverage needed to encourage growth in the forums.

Thank you Colin, you appear to have understood the point I was trying to make. I know I did not presented well , and perhaps misled some members. I was more concerned that I don’t see that there is a lot of new growth . I see and read from the same group of members in most threads.

HW is my first stop in the morning for information, It seems, I’m reading the same 10-15 members and I question, is there ever any new members?. If so, are they reading just like I do ?.

Perhaps my comments should have been worded clearer. I’ll give it another try, I don’t see a growth in new members, and how active are the majority of new members, if there is any. I think the answer is this ‘elite group’ that is very knowledgeable dominates the threads through intimidation , intentionally or unintentionally. One half believes Price is great the other half, he is bum. It is a bit redundant game in and game out. Sometime I get the feeling I’m intruding in a private board. I hesitate to even consider opening a new thread in the event it is not acceptable to the elite membership. Wonder if there are other new members that get the same feeling.

Long story short, Four years ago I joined another Habs board, on my very first post I was taken to task for even suggesting a trade with Ryder in it from one member. I was so taken back and could not understand why. Two of the boards ‘captains’ ( JL and another ) came to my aid and helped me to understand, and not take it personally. What I’m trying to say, It’s ok to have new ideas, it might be fun to see what some of the newer members are interested in. we just want a place to post them. This might bring more interest and grow the HW boards membership.