A Little Perspective

[bar]

MAB succkkkkssss a$$!

MAB = 10G 18A 28pts -9

99% of his points are on the PP yet he still sports a minus 9

Haha ok..forgive me if this is sarcasm, but you do know that PP points do not count towards your +/- right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus-minus

So a guy whos 99% of production comes on the PP, it goes to show that yes he would have a terrible +/-

I think for the cost he saved the Montreal PP, because Spacey and Hammer were not getting the job done, Spacey has come on a bit recently. Without the Berg signing we are in the Hall-Seg sweepstakes.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

u learn something new every day on this site.... ha ha ( reading my wording i see how u would of thought that)

well if his 28 points on the PP were included that would mean he has a -37... making him not even worthy of playing in our local beer league

but spacek has been given zero time with markov... who is clearly the key to this PP.

p.s MAB is nowhere near the reason we are fighting for a playoff spot rather then a lottery pick.

[bar]

I disagree again that Markov has been the key to MABs play.

Mab for good or bad, has been producing on the power play before Markov came back.

[Habsfan]

I disagree again that Markov has been the key to MABs play.

Mab for good or bad, has been producing on the power play before Markov came back.

Agreed. The THREAT of MAB's shot from the point allows other players on the PP to get more space. Other teams expect MAB's shot, so they have to take that into consideration when they are on the PK.

I agree that MAB is a liability defensively speaking, but what he's brought to this PP(which was one of the worst in the league before he showed up) is well worth the 750,000$ we are paying him!

[Fanpuck33]

u learn something new every day on this site.... ha ha ( reading my wording i see how u would of thought that)

well if his 28 points on the PP were included that would mean he has a -37... making him not even worthy of playing in our local beer league

Um, what are you talking about? If powerplay points counted toward +/-, then Bergeron's 20 powerplay points would be a positive 20. -9 plus 20 is 11.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Um, what are you talking about? If powerplay points counted toward +/-, then Bergeron's 20 powerplay points would be a positive 20. -9 plus 20 is 11.

meaning 28 points on the powerplay if i thought they were included in +/- would make him -37 at even strength. hence him sucking bad! but whatever the point is he reeks of fish!

as for markov.... we were not even close to being capapable on the pp until markov returned and we went something like 14 of 18 to sky rocket us to 1st in the league on the pp. i didnt say markov was the reason to MAB's success on the pp. he was wiring them in b4 marky was back but MAB has clearly cooled off since. he's got 1 goal on the pp in his last 15 games & if u take out the 2 he scored on atl more then a month ago he's got 1 G in 25.

put into "perspective" he has 9 PP goals. he scored 2 of them in his first 3 starts and had another 2 games with multiple goals = 6. he's scored 1 every 5/6 games since plus the game winner in OT on that 2on 1 when he crashed the net.

his powerplay exploits are overrated if not inflated to say the least and i just dont think the pro's to him dressing to play the point on the pp are enough to have us be a player short the rest of the game. he sucks and going forward if we want to compete for Lord Stanley in the future he will and has no part in it.

he was a short term fix and now that we have marky back we can move forward with spacek and SK

[bar]

Haha ok just to clarify, you do not have to get a point to get an increase in +/- just be on the ice when a goal is scored.

I still prefer Berg on the PP, and 4th line duties. SK, no thanks to the PP.

Edited January 25, 2010 by bar

[Fanpuck33]

Haha ok just to clarify, you do not have to get a point to get an increase in +/- just be on the ice when a goal is scored.

I still prefer Berg on the PP, and 4th line duties. SK, no thanks to the PP.

Exactly. Adding his 20 PP points wouldn't even account for PP goals scored with him on the ice and not getting a point.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Haha ok just to clarify, you do not have to get a point to get an increase in +/- just be on the ice when a goal is scored.

I still prefer Berg on the PP, and 4th line duties. SK, no thanks to the PP.

just so u know SK ran the right point for like 3 seasons in london. no thanks???

no thanks maybe after he's tried and failed in the nhl on the pp.

but he was highly successfull in junior in that role.

i vote spacek on first unit with markov and SK with hammer on the 2nd. bergeron in the press box taking notes on how to play defence in the NHL from the defencemen on both teams

[bar]

just so u know SK ran the right point for like 3 seasons in london. no thanks???

no thanks maybe after he's tried and failed in the nhl on the pp.

but he was highly successfull in junior in that role.

i vote spacek on first unit with markov and SK with hammer on the 2nd. bergeron in the press box taking notes on how to play defence in the NHL from the defencemen on both teams

SK also put up tons of pts in juniors hows that working out? Berg is cheap labour pure and simple. SK is a headache.

[Trizzak]

i vote spacek on first unit with markov and SK with hammer on the 2nd. bergeron in the press box taking notes on how to play defence in the NHL from the defencemen on both teams

I think he's been very effective as a 4th liner/PP specialist. Also, isn't Montreal's powerplay top of the league at this point? Why mess with what works?

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

u want to beat the pens? or the caps? or the devils? never mind beat... compete? then he's got to go.

like i said ... he's a horrible defensemen & brings nothing to a 4th line that is suppose to bring energy...

he has done good on the pp but nothing in his last 20 games. i'm pretty sure we were sitting in like 19th on thee pp till marky's return and that huge run on our 7 game road trip propelled us to 1st. we had an above avg pp last year till schneider came and boom it was like 3rd by seasons end. the year b4 that we were #1 (markov/striet)and the yr b4 that #1 (markov/ souray)

spacek was signed for this role and given a chance with markov will do just as good.

[Trizzak]

u want to beat the pens? or the caps? or the devils? never mind beat... compete? then he's got to go.

like i said ... he's a horrible defensemen & brings nothing to a 4th line that is suppose to bring energy...

he has done good on the pp but nothing in his last 20 games. i'm pretty sure we were sitting in like 19th on thee pp till marky's return and that huge run on our 7 game road trip propelled us to 1st. we had an above avg pp last year till schneider came and boom it was like 3rd by seasons end. the year b4 that we were #1 (markov/striet)and the yr b4 that #1 (markov/ souray)

spacek was signed for this role and given a chance with markov will do just as good.

He has 12 points in the last 20 games. 10 of those points are from the powerplay. If those numbers aren't good enough for you, then it's true, we shouldn't have Bergeron, we should have Bobby Orr.

And if our 4th line is an energy line, then Bergeron is only 1/3rd of the problem.

[bar]

u want to beat the pens? or the caps? or the devils? never mind beat... compete? then he's got to go.

like i said ... he's a horrible defensemen & brings nothing to a 4th line that is suppose to bring energy...

he has done good on the pp but nothing in his last 20 games. i'm pretty sure we were sitting in like 19th on thee pp till marky's return and that huge run on our 7 game road trip propelled us to 1st. we had an above avg pp last year till schneider came and boom it was like 3rd by seasons end. the year b4 that we were #1 (markov/striet)and the yr b4 that #1 (markov/ souray)

spacek was signed for this role and given a chance with markov will do just as good.

I plain do not trust Spacey at the point, how many times has he fumbled a pass, been out of positioning, leading to a breakaway or 2 on 1 short handed chance for the other team? At least you know what you're getting with MAB.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

that's what i mean about overrated and inflated. yes he has 12 pts. 1 OT goal to win it which i mentioned earlier, he had the 1st assist on laraque's goal which i believe should of been unassisted considering bergeron played no part in that goal.

his 10 pp points consist of 6 2nd assists 1G & 3 first assists.

he has 1 goal in his last 15 games and if u take out the 2 goal performance its like 25....

i know he's french canadian and all but when the goals stop coming who will be the first to throw him under the bus like brisbois.

by the way 2nd assists are meaningless and should be stricken from point totals in imho

[Zowpeb]

What I hate most is the ridiculous notion of blind supporters. You take away from your opinion, when you say that. If someone doesn't agree with you, and might like a move the GM makes, they become a blind supporter. It's a two way street.

Your right...we should all simply agree that everything Gainey does is perfect...

If ANYONE thinks that every move, from trades to picks to development has been a great move then I would submit that it takes away from THEIR opinion...

I have, at no point, claimed that if someone doesn't agree with me then they are a blind supporter. However, it seems to me that some posts about Gainey's GREAT moves are nothing but unobjective, poorly thought out poison to the organization. Complacency (and a level of support that does not hold them accountable) from the fan base is what keeps a team from feeling the need to legitimately improve (see: Leaf "Nation"). But hey, that's just my opinion...

Gainey has made some good moves. He has also made some bad moves. Sure, all GM's make some bad moves...but there is a growing sentiment that some of those bad moves are going to hamstring this team for the next couple years.

[Trizzak]

that's what i mean about overrated and inflated. yes he has 12 pts. 1 OT goal to win it which i mentioned earlier, he had the 1st assist on laraque's goal which i believe should of been unassisted considering bergeron played no part in that goal.

his 10 pp points consist of 6 2nd assists 1G & 3 first assists.

he has 1 goal in his last 15 games and if u take out the 2 goal performance its like 25....

i know he's french canadian and all but when the goals stop coming who will be the first to throw him under the bus like brisbois.

by the way 2nd assists are meaningless and should be stricken from point totals in imho

wow

[Habsy]

Your right...we should all simply agree that everything Gainey does is perfect...

If ANYONE thinks that every move, from trades to picks to development has been a great move then I would submit that it takes away from THEIR opinion...

I have, at no point, claimed that if someone doesn't agree with me then they are a blind supporter. However, it seems to me that some posts about Gainey's GREAT moves are nothing but unobjective, poorly thought out poison to the organization. Complacency (and a level of support that does not hold them accountable) from the fan base is what keeps a team from feeling the need to legitimately improve (see: Leaf "Nation"). But hey, that's just my opinion...

Gainey has made some good moves. He has also made some bad moves. Sure, all GM's make some bad moves...but there is a growing sentiment that some of those bad moves are going to hamstring this team for the next couple years.

That's what you got from my post? That we should all agree Gainey is perfect? My point is there's middle ground on Gainey's performance. It's just not supporters and haters. Just like the Halak/Price debate.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

That's what you got from my post? That we should all agree Gainey is perfect? My point is there's middle ground on Gainey's performance. It's just not supporters and haters. Just like the Halak/Price debate.

agreed1

gainey has made good moves as well as terrible ones.

he's been fair as well as selfish.

he's shown that he can be laid back as well as cut throat which is what i want in a GM.

in the end, i believe every GM in the league has done a little of both good and bad moves.

moving forward, we have a better on ice product , farm system and organization since his hiring.....

[Wamsley01]

agreed1

gainey has made good moves as well as terrible ones.

he's been fair as well as selfish.

he's shown that he can be laid back as well as cut throat which is what i want in a GM.

in the end, i believe every GM in the league has done a little of both good and bad moves.

moving forward, we have a better on ice product , farm system and organization since his hiring.....

You would be hard pressed not to have "a better on ice product, farm system and organization" coming off

the Rejean Houle years.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

what i cant't understand is how anyone who truly follow the habs can be a fan of MAB. i've watched every single game this season... not the highlights.... every game.

as good as he plays on the PP he is equally bad if not worse at 5 on 5.

i appreciate his contribution to the PP his 9 pp goals and was extremely happy when he scored the game tieing goal against atl and then won it in OT when he crashed the net.... yes he has 28 pts blah blah blah.

BUT, he is a horrible defensemen. and if someone says he's a decent 4th liner my rebutal is dandenault is not a 4th liner, neither was streit, and MAB sure as hell isnt either.

there is a reason he wasnt signed by anyone at season's start.

markov has proven time and time again he can be successful with whoever he plays with on that point.... souray, streit, schneider , MAB.

spacek preformed excellent for BUF last year as their PP guy & gainey went out and got him to replace schneider. give him some 1st unit time with marky and you'll see....

if we want to contend this guy should not be around... that's my outlook

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

come on wamsley..... every single part of this team has drastically improved since his hiring in what 6 seasons... we were unlucky against philly as we made biron look like a world beater. 1 koivu eye later and we blow a 2 game lead and crumble as well as our first ever eastern conference championship. post wales conference.

not to mention 3 calder finals 2 of them victories... the bulldogs are sitting in 1st in there divsion and a couple off the conference with so many kids up or being used by the big club.

gainey's done good. if u reverse some bad moves we could be the cream of the crop already but the habs stock continues to rise and will continue in his next 5 seasons

[Toronthab]

What I hate most is the ridiculous notion of blind supporters. You take away from your opinion, when you say that. If someone doesn't agree with you, and might like a move the GM makes, they become a blind supporter. It's a two way street.

I am pretty far from the sharpest hockey mind ...even in Toronto...., but some critical points, like squeezing out another year with Saku and Alex sounds ok, and backing off to pick up less expensive help sounds ok too, but my take, and as I recall, Mr G's commitment was to make a team that could compete year in year out with the odd calculated attempt for the big prize.

Dumping a year to load up for the future is not a path open to uncle Bob. That's not even sports; that's accounting. I don't want to watch assets in an accounting match.

We needed Souray until the end that year. So we kept him. It was the right move, but not for an accounting match. Solid move with Lats. I'm STILL pissed at Robeiro and he's been gone for a while. Mr G has to show unfailing confidence in Price or the Price will be wrong. Theodore was the absolutely right move, just a bad result. GM's don't deliver results.

Getting both Big #### and LIttle #### was a potential stroke of genius as was picking the kid with the medical condition.

I don't know enough about player development to critique intelligently, but while I am no hockey whizzkid, I am EXTREMELY grateful that the great Bob Gainey, who is by many standards a great man, chose to come home to Montreal and pull us out of the swamp.

Oh, and I liked Souray, Koivu and Kovalev a heck of a lot and miss them all.

Go Bob Go!

[jackp]

I disagree again that Markov has been the key to MABs play.

Mab for good or bad, has been producing on the power play before Markov came back.

Completely true... Bergeron resurrected a moribund powerplay. Also, he's not as bad defensively as some people here say. He moves the puck out of the zone very well, for example.

[Dalhabs]

Completely true... Bergeron resurrected a moribund powerplay. Also, he's not as bad defensively as some people here say. He moves the puck out of the zone very well, for example.

Im VERY happy with Bergeron. Its like getting Souray back for under a million. Of course Souray added the grit and goon part as well but cant say Bergeron is any worse Defensively than Souray.