The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) You value Hammer over Wiz? If the Habs bring back Wiz, Markov and Gill and Markov plays 55 games, then I think they'd still have one of the stronger Ds in the East. I think the time to try making a significant upgrade would be in the summer, not now. Like Brian said, I think it's more likely they pick up a veteran #6 or 7 for a late pick. And maybe do the same thing at the forward position. Defensively I think Wiz is a drop-off from Hammer, but obviously if a choice were forced I'd pick Wiz. I just meant that we're weakened by Hammer's absence. Remember that I'm not counting on Markov any more. Like you, I like our current configuration a whole lot, if you factor in #79; but if you imagine our present Markov-less D AND subtract Hammer, you've got a recipe for adject disaster. The Habs pencilling in Markov to be there at playoff time or for the bulk of a season is equivalent to the Canucks doing the same with Sami Salo. It's just naive at this point. But I suspect you're correct that the Habs will not acquire another top-4 guy this season - if only because they don't grow on trees (unless Garth Snow is the gardener ). All I was saying is that if one comes up, we should be interested. Edited February 4, 2011 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The report this week suggested that we had talked to Florida about Weiss. Our Gm. may have had a tete to tete, but how do you know it was about Weiss? I think Mccabe is a more likely target. He should be healthy somewhere close to the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Defensively I think Wiz is a drop-off from Hammer, but obviously if a choice were forced I'd pick Wiz. I just meant that we're weakened by Hammer's absence. Remember that I'm not counting on Markov any more. Like you, I like our current configuration a whole lot, if you factor in #79; but if you imagine our present Markov-less D AND subtract Hammer, you've got a recipe for adject disaster. The Habs pencilling in Markov to be there at playoff time or for the bulk of a season is equivalent to the Canucks doing the same with Sami Salo. It's just naive at this point. But I suspect you're correct that the Habs will not acquire another top-4 guy this season - if only because they don't grow on trees (unless Garth Snow is the gardener ). All I was saying is that if one comes up, we should be interested. Hamrlik-Wisniewski Spacek-Subban Gill-Gorges Weber It isn't great but I don't think it's the disaster you're suggesting. It's actually a pretty decent "D by committee" it just lacks a top pairing guy until Subban can fill that role. But I think Markov will be signed and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll play less than half the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Hamrlik-Wisniewski Spacek-Subban Gill-Gorges Weber It isn't great but I don't think it's the disaster you're suggesting. It's actually a pretty decent "D by committee" it just lacks a top pairing guy until Subban can fill that role. But I think Markov will be signed and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll play less than half the season. Argh! We keep talking past each other. Again: YES, I agree that IF we keep everyone, our D is fine. The difference is that I would like a safety net so that we can absorb the loss of a Hammer or a Wiz and still have a strong (preferably enhanced) defence corps, should one or both of these stalwarts walk come summer. Factoring in the added benefit of a major short-term improvement to the club and this seems the way to go provided it can be done. Anyway, time to let this rest, I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Argh! We keep talking past each other. Again: YES, I agree that IF we keep everyone, our D is fine. The difference is that I would like a safety net so that we can absorb the loss of a Hammer or a Wiz and still have a strong (preferably enhanced) defence corps, should one or both of these stalwarts walk come summer. Factoring in the added benefit of a major short-term improvement to the club and this seems the way to go provided it can be done. Anyway, time to let this rest, I think! Ah, okay. Gill-Wiz, Spacek-Subban, Weber-Gorges is pretty weak. But the only person I think the Habs could upgrade is Spacek and Gauthier's unlikely to trade Spacek when half of the D squad is hitting free agency. So I think that even if there is an interesting d-man on the trade market, Montreal will have trouble opening a roster spot for him (which one of our D do we trade?). Safety nets are always welcome but we need to be realistic. Montreal has the cap space but I can't see them acquiring a top 4 d-man without giving back a d-man in the trade, and we have no d-men that we readily want to give away. In regards to next season, I won't know if I think the Habs have a spot for another top 4 d-man until July 1st once we know which of The Four have been retained. My trade deadline prediction remains: 1 #6/7 veteran d-man + 1 2nd/3rd line veteran winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Ah, okay. Gill-Wiz, Spacek-Subban, Weber-Gorges is pretty weak. But the only person I think the Habs could upgrade is Spacek and Gauthier's unlikely to trade Spacek when half of the D squad is hitting free agency. So I think that even if there is an interesting d-man on the trade market, Montreal will have trouble opening a roster spot for him (which one of our D do we trade?). Safety nets are always welcome but we need to be realistic. Montreal has the cap space but I can't see them acquiring a top 4 d-man without giving back a d-man in the trade, and we have no d-men that we readily want to give away. In regards to next season, I won't know if I think the Habs have a spot for another top 4 d-man until July 1st once we know which of The Four have been retained. My trade deadline prediction remains: 1 #6/7 veteran d-man + 1 2nd/3rd line veteran winger. Seriously? we can trade Picard we can trade Weber Carle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Seriously? we can trade Picard we can trade Weber Carle... Nobody wants Picard. I think Weber is in the long term plans, not going to be traded for a rental. Carle has limited value, every team has their own Carle - and he isn't even on the NHL team. I meant that if the Habs acquire a d-man, they would want to give back an NHL d-man. I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I don't think the Habs will acquire a top 4 d-man by the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Nobody wants Picard. I think Weber is in the long term plans, not going to be traded for a rental. Carle has limited value, every team has their own Carle - and he isn't even on the NHL team. I meant that if the Habs acquire a d-man, they would want to give back an NHL d-man. I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I don't think the Habs will acquire a top 4 d-man by the deadline. I understand your view, but we see differently then. Come trade deadline anything is available for a price for some teams, and to others it could mean saving a buck or two. To acquire a top 4 d-man that is in a his last year of contract, it could only take a Pick and a Picard.... hehe i like that word play. Same goes for a top 6 forward. So yes it takes two to tango but you portray a top 4 dman acquisition almost at the same level as acquiring a top pairing Dman. to me very different Edited February 6, 2011 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Nobody wants Picard. I think Weber is in the long term plans, not going to be traded for a rental. Carle has limited value, every team has their own Carle - and he isn't even on the NHL team. I meant that if the Habs acquire a d-man, they would want to give back an NHL d-man. I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying why I don't think the Habs will acquire a top 4 d-man by the deadline. I agree that the odds of our acquiring a top-4 defenceman are slim. The return would likely have to be a high draft pick, a good young player, or maybe someone like Kostitsyn (but there I'm probably delusional). I would be very happy if we could do it, though. One thing we haven't discussed much on this board so far is what the Habs are positioned to give back in a trade. Does the emergence of Patches and the ongoing inconsistency of Pouliot/Kostitsyn give a surplus at FW? Are there young guys of the D'Agostini/O'Bryne stripe who might interest other organizations, but who clearly aren't in our long-term plans? Do we have a glut of a certain type of defencemen in the system? How are we positioned with draft picks? (Not well, as I recall). It's one thing to talk about our wish-list, it's another to actually think like a GM and calculate what our tradeable assets are. Edited February 6, 2011 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I agree that the odds of our acquiring a top-4 defenceman are slim. The return would likely have to be a high draft pick, a good young player, or maybe someone like Kostitsyn (but there I'm probably delusional). I would be very happy if we could do it, though. One thing we haven't discussed much on this board so far is what the Habs are positioned to give back in a trade. Does the emergence of Patches and the ongoing inconsistency of Pouliot/Kostitsyn give a surplus at FW? Are there young guys of the D'Agostini/O'Bryne stripe who might interest other organizations, but who clearly aren't in our long-term plans? Do we have a glut of a certain type of defencemen in the system? How are we positioned with draft picks? (Not well, as I recall). It's one thing to talk about our wish-list, it's another to actually think like a GM and calculate what our tradeable assets are. Maybe Ben Maxwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinHab Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why, why, why, why everyboby is talking about defence, you all think our offence is good enough to go all way??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why, why, why, why everyboby is talking about defence, you all think our offence is good enough to go all way??? It's basically the same offence that the Habs made it to the 3rd round with last year. Defence is a concern beyond this season as has been discussed and the fact of the matter is, the Habs have 2 rookies and 3 that are 35+ on the back end. That alone makes it a concern as due to the inexperience and age, there will always be questions. In all likelihood, Montreal needs to improve both the defence and the offence - will they be able to fix both with what they have left to spend? If no, then you've gotta pick one. If the offensive pieces aren't available (and quite frankly, there aren't many available), then you have to look at the D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Well according to this article (discussion with Hamrlik) He wants to finish his career in Mtl. And he is willing to accept a cheaper contract along with less responsibilities. If PG can find the price we have our bottom 4-6D in the Hammer! http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/201102/07/01-4367923-hamrlik-accepterait-un-role-moindre-pour-finir-sa-carriere-a-montreal.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_257_accueil_POS1 And another thing that comes from Danslescoullises is that PG no longer can get Arnott... after the Devs kicked our butt Arnott doesnt see the Habs as a contender So PG is in talks with: Pierre Gauthier est en discussion avec les Panthers, les Blue Jackets, les Blues et les Oilers présentement. C’est tout! Les noms de Huselius, Voracek, Frolik, Boyes, Dvorak, Hemsky et Penner sont au cœur des discussions. Selon Coup de balai, les DG des Oilers et des Panthers sont ceux qui appellent le plus Pierre Gauthier. Edited February 8, 2011 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Reports have been quiet swirling that Arnott debunked going to the Habs nearly 3 weeks ago, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 So according to Pierre Lebrun, Boston and Habs are after the same Dmen... Phillips and Kaberle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinHab Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's basically the same offence that the Habs made it to the 3rd round with last year. Defence is a concern beyond this season as has been discussed and the fact of the matter is, the Habs have 2 rookies and 3 that are 35+ on the back end. That alone makes it a concern as due to the inexperience and age, there will always be questions. In all likelihood, Montreal needs to improve both the defence and the offence - will they be able to fix both with what they have left to spend? If no, then you've gotta pick one. If the offensive pieces aren't available (and quite frankly, there aren't many available), then you have to look at the D. Yes, I can understand that, but I'm just thinking about this season. And I think we need to boost our offence, we need to have some muscle... And everyone who saw last nights game against Bruins must agree with me. In playoffs they will kill us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yes, I can understand that, but I'm just thinking about this season. And I think we need to boost our offence, we need to have some muscle... And everyone who saw last nights game against Bruins must agree with me. In playoffs they will kill us... The Habs allowed 8 goals and scored 6 last night...if you're basing the comment on last night's game, shouldn't defence be the bigger concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The Habs allowed 8 goals and scored 6 last night...if you're basing the comment on last night's game, shouldn't defence be the bigger concern? I just heard(HF Boards) that White was called up. Was somebody hurt last night? I thought Cammy was close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just heard(HF Boards) that White was called up. Was somebody hurt last night? I thought Cammy was close. I can see 2 reasons why other then injury. fingrs crossed) we traded Gomez or we needed to add a guy to the team that can play a little bigger then Gomez Does any one think Burke would take Gomez for Versteg(sp?, would be almost as good as the Courtnal for Kordic deal back in the days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I just heard(HF Boards) that White was called up. Was somebody hurt last night? I thought Cammy was close. I did post that note in the GDT from yesterday...and on the site. We here can break news too... Darche is questionable for tonight. Cammalleri hasn't skated with the team yet but hopes to this weekend. I think he'll be back by the outdoor game. Does any one think Burke would take Gomez for Versteg(sp?, would be almost as good as the Courtnal for Kordic deal back in the days With a couple of 1st rounders, maybe. Versteeg alone will fetch a couple of decent young pieces, that's not Gomez. The Leafs also surprisingly don't have a whole lot of cap space, I'm not sure they could actually do the deal as proposed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Fisher went to the Preds for a 1st rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Fisher went to the Preds for a 1st rounder. And conditional pick, something like 4th pick, 3rd if they win one round, 2nd if they get past 2 or more rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Fisher went to the Preds for a 1st rounder. Oops, that probably means Matthew Lombardi is out for the year. 1st round pick seems high but still, he's the player they wanted to add to their team and they paid to get it. Nashville is doing an impressive and quiet job at dressing up a competitive team year after year. kudos to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Oops, that probably means Matthew Lombardi is out for the year. 1st round pick seems high but still, he's the player they wanted to add to their team and they paid to get it. Nashville is doing an impressive and quiet job at dressing up a competitive team year after year. kudos to them I had noted this in the NHL thread where this trade was mentioned already but Ottawa was said to be asking for a 1st and a good prospect. I suppose the 2nd/3rd they'll get is like a prospect, just younger. Steep payments is the name of the game right now, may be worth holding off for another week or so. (That'd be good as my deadline articles won't start until early next week...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I did post that note in the GDT from yesterday...and on the site. We here can break news too... Darche is questionable for tonight. Cammalleri hasn't skated with the team yet but hopes to this weekend. I think he'll be back by the outdoor game. With a couple of 1st rounders, maybe. Versteeg alone will fetch a couple of decent young pieces, that's not Gomez. The Leafs also surprisingly don't have a whole lot of cap space, I'm not sure they could actually do the deal as proposed anyway. Maybe PG can trade Gomez, Kornev and ??? for Versteeg. Kinda like the deal Sather got. 1 player that I would keep but the rest would be players not comming here or don't want to be here. Gomez, Kornev, brother Andre and a bag of pucks (maybe even a big bag of pucks). Fine granted in this last suggestion only the bag of pucks would be useful to the Habs but I think for Versteeg it's worth the loss. Kosty, Kornev, Gomez, bag of pucks and a hardy handshake (since cap space is an issue) and we could get back Versteeg, Kaberle (sp) and Kadri??? we can give them 2Ks, 1G, 1BoP and 1HHS for 1V and 2Ks; sound fair to me, anybody else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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