Permanent Rumour Thread

[saskhab]

I am with Apron Basu on this one

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110216/mtl_habshub_habit_110215/20110216/?hub=MontrealSports

Don't make any deals that cost anything of significance just to make the playoffs. I am open to deals that accentuate this core and move the team forward. Targeting pieces that will make this team better next season AND this season are the deals I would try to make if I was Gauthier.

I think there are some that argue that simply making the playoffs benefits your team for the next season even if that specific asset is not retained. Dealing a second rounder for Dominic Moore helped our team make the playoffs and advance to the third round, laying the foundation for the team to be more competitive this year and challenge for the division title. There are no guarantees, obviously, since Carolina made the 3rd round in 2009 and might not make the playoffs this year for the second year in a row since then, but I'm starting to be of the opinion where just experiencing some modest success is of value long term.

I still don't expect our team to re-sign Wisniewski, as I think he'll be tremendously over-valued on the open market. But trading for him was a good move both short term and long term.

[Wamsley01]

I think there are some that argue that simply making the playoffs benefits your team for the next season even if that specific asset is not retained. Dealing a second rounder for Dominic Moore helped our team make the playoffs and advance to the third round, laying the foundation for the team to be more competitive this year and challenge for the division title. There are no guarantees, obviously, since Carolina made the 3rd round in 2009 and might not make the playoffs this year for the second year in a row since then, but I'm starting to be of the opinion where just experiencing some modest success is of value long term.

I still don't expect our team to re-sign Wisniewski, as I think he'll be tremendously over-valued on the open market. But trading for him was a good move both short term and long term.

I have no problem with those type of deals. It was a draft pick and the Habs have shown an ability to unearth talent in later rounds. A 2nd rounder could be PK Subban, but it could also be Cory Urquhart or Matt Carkner. I don't want to see a rental that removes a productive piece of the lineup moving forward or a building block for the future just to win one round.

Secondary prospects and draft picks are fine, but Kostitsyn for a depth player to help with injuries, no thanks.

[patience is a virtue]

Secondary prospects and draft picks are fine, but Kostitsyn for a depth player to help with injuries, no thanks.

I agree with most of the praise for AK above. He is a valuable asset, with a killer shot, big body, and creative passing abilities. The lure of untapped potential is there - especially given what has been happening with his bro.

I think the time to move him has come. Can't see resigning him for $3.25M.

Nashville is even more desperate for offense than Montreal is, and they're also trying to make a playoff run. They know how to rehab a Kostitsyn.

Cody Franson in return fills a number of Mtl's needs and the Preds are deep with backend prospects. Maybe they force us to take the slumping Dumont and his salary in return as part of the deal. We have to send Picard, a pick and maybe a prospect the other way for him.

The stars are aligning on such a deal - meets both teams short and long-term needs.

OK, I'll stop repeating myself now

Edited February 16, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[CoRvInA]

With the emergence of Pouliot this season, I think AK leaving could actually be an upgrade as it'd give chickenboy more time and some PP finally, I wouldn't mind a line of Cammy/Gomez/Pouliot, it'd mirror the first line with Gionta/Plek/MaxPax.

Shhhhhhh Dont tell Gomez but he already is playing on the third line... AK-Gomez-Moen. When Camm comes back he'l be paired to Plek And Gionta.. And Max Pac will finally be paired with his Bulldog linemate. the MaxPac-DD-Pouliot line should be our third line but CLEARLY will be used as second

[Wamsley01]

I agree with most of the praise for AK above. He is a valuable asset, with a killer shot, big body, and creative passing abilities. The lure of untapped potential is there - especially given what has been happening with his bro.

I think the time to move him has come. Can't see resigning him for $3.25M.

Nashville is even more desperate for offense than Montreal is, and they're also trying to make a playoff run. They know how to rehab a Kostitsyn.

Cody Franson in return fills a number of Mtl's needs and the Preds are deep with backend prospects. Maybe they force us to take the slumping Dumont and his salary in return as part of the deal. We have to send Picard, a pick and maybe a prospect the other way for him.

The stars are aligning on such a deal - meets both teams short and long-term needs.

OK, I'll stop repeating myself now

That would meet the criteria I personally set. Although the Habs don't have to give AK 3.25 as an RFA. He could go to arbitration and get less. He got that deal coming off the 2008 season when he had a career high 53 points. 53 points for a 23 year old points to brighter days ahead.

I agree that if he has to take a paycut or goes to arbitration that his days may be done and you don't want to lose him as a UFA the next season.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Wamsley01

[dlbalr]

That would meet the criteria I personally set. Although the Habs don't have to give AK 3.25 as an RFA. He could go to arbitration and get less. He got that deal coming off the 2008 season when he had a career high 53 points. 53 points for a 23 year old points to brighter days ahead.

I agree that if he has to take a paycut or goes to arbitration that his days may be done and you don't want to lose him as a UFA the next season.

For the record, the biggest pay cut Kostitsyn can take through arbitration is 15%, which would drop his salary to $2,762,500. If it ever got that far though, he'd probably just take his QO of $3.25M.

[Chris]

Then what do you do with Puliot whio i expect will outscore AK46 this year. ou can't have both of them making 3 mill. Just trade AK46.

Also, for what it's worth not eklund but reports are Ian White has been moved and the Sharks or Habs are the most likely destination. Please don't shoot the messanger.

Doesn't make any sense anyway, the habs need LD. I am ok with Wis, Subban and Weber as the RD.

[dlbalr]

Also, for what it's worth not eklund but reports are Ian White has been moved and the Sharks or Habs are the most likely destination. Please don't shoot the messanger.

Spector speculated the Habs could be in the mix, that's the only source I've seen suggesting the Habs may be involved. Did you see a different one?

[BTH]

Still more media speculation (if you can call Eklund media, he is right once out of every 100, so him saying it really means very little) , not Gainey was seen talking to Keenan and it is believed they are talking about Tanguay. Tanguay is also french and when a french player is unhappy, what is the first thing that happens in regards to rumours? On his way to Montreal.

I am talking about speculation based on the GMs actions. Scouts in Nashville, sit down with the Florida GM etc.

Also, the Theo trade came out of left field. I was shocked when he was dealt, happy, but shocked considering that Gainey had essentially forced him back in the net even though Huet was outplaying him.

I don't see why it makes a difference what the rumours are based on. Either way there were months of speculation leading up to both the Tanguay and Theodore deals. Maybe they came as surprises to us the exact moment we found out about them but we surely had heard about a Theodore/Aebischer trade (and a Tanguay to Montreal trade) a thousand times before the real thing happened. I was shocked that Theodore was dealt because he was playing horribly, was overpaid, had alleged attitude problems and was injured at the time. That doesn't mean that the idea of a Theodore to Colorado trade wasn't speculated about by fans and media for months, maybe even years, and that I hadn't considered the possibility many times. I never agreed with Gainey's reputation for being super secretive and unpredictable.

[Wamsley01]

I don't see why it makes a difference what the rumours are based on. Either way there were months of speculation leading up to both the Tanguay and Theodore deals. Maybe they came as surprises to us the exact moment we found out about them but we surely had heard about a Theodore/Aebischer trade (and a Tanguay to Montreal trade) a thousand times before the real thing happened. I was shocked that Theodore was dealt because he was playing horribly, was overpaid, had alleged attitude problems and was injured at the time. That doesn't mean that the idea of a Theodore to Colorado trade wasn't speculated about by fans and media for months, maybe even years, and that I hadn't considered the possibility many times. I never agreed with Gainey's reputation for being super secretive and unpredictable.

Because fans speculate on 40-50 rumours per season. When they finally get one right it isn't an example of Gainey or Gauthier leaking anything or leaving a trail, it is a case of if you throw enough shit at the wall some of it will stick.

For every "Tanguay/Theo" was right, there are hundreds of ( Jokinen, Hossa, Ignila) unsubstantiated rumours. Go through this whole thread an count the names and add up all the names that were wrong. Divide it by the ones that were right and you will have less than 1%.

There is a huge difference between the stuff Burke is doing in Toronto and the stuff that is speculated. One is being fed and the other is not.

[saskhab]

Because fans speculate on 40-50 rumours per season. When they finally get one right it isn't an example of Gainey or Gauthier leaking anything or leaving a trail, it is a case of if you throw enough shit at the wall some of it will stick.

For every "Tanguay/Theo" was right, there are hundreds of ( Jokinen, Hossa, Ignila) unsubstantiated rumours. Go through this whole thread an count the names and add up all the names that were wrong. Divide it by the ones that were right and you will have less than 1%.

There is a huge difference between the stuff Burke is doing in Toronto and the stuff that is speculated. One is being fed and the other is not.

Hossa wasn't unsubstantiated, though that equipment bag thing was obviously a crock. The Habs just lost out on that deal. Same thing with Sundin.

Lang everyone knew was available, and that the Habs were looking for a big RH centre (experience preferred), so it was an easy move to predict as a fall back option.

[Wamsley01]

Hossa wasn't unsubstantiated, though that equipment bag thing was obviously a crock. The Habs just lost out on that deal. Same thing with Sundin.

Lang everyone knew was available, and that the Habs were looking for a big RH centre (experience preferred), so it was an easy move to predict as a fall back option.

Gainey admitted after the day that they were trying to get Hossa, but that was on trade deadline day when people are monitoring phone calls and have Canadian

media all over them. THe Sundin thing was speculated, but I was still surprised when Gainey actually made the deal.

Like I said before. I could be wrong, I just don't remember it.

[Easy Ryder]

I would not consider trading Nash, left D, accurate pass and his shots hit the net.

work to do on his positionning and skating but sill very good.

Trading this asset would not be a logical move, they are too hard to find.

Even if they all get wounded, i do not want any other 6-7 defensemen from other team.

Valuable experience has been gain by PK and Weber.

Only one thing i wish for his another player that could help Moen on the physical side.

[BTH]

Gainey admitted after the day that they were trying to get Hossa, but that was on trade deadline day when people are monitoring phone calls and have Canadian

media all over them. THe Sundin thing was speculated, but I was still surprised when Gainey actually made the deal.

Like I said before. I could be wrong, I just don't remember it.

Most rumours surrounding all GMs are wrong. That isn't specific to Gainey. We've seen that the rumours that stuck around for months have pretty much always had legs to them (Lecavalier, Tanguay, Theodore, Schneider, ...). I bet it's true that Gainey was at times in talks for Marleau and Sharp as well.

[dlbalr]

Not necessarily a rumour but make of it what you will:

Wouldn't make too much out of this, but Habs GM Pierre Gauthier is at Caps/Sharks game

[BTH]

Darren Dreger says Gauthier is looking for a winger to play with Plekanec.

[dlbalr]

Darren Dreger says Gauthier is looking for a winger to play with Plekanec.

Makes sense if nothing else. He tossed Steve Sullivan's name out the other day apparently on the Team in Montreal; he's not on my list of 8 forwards the Habs might look into but if he's willing to waive his NMC, he might be worthwhile. Wouldn't help the size element though, that's for sure.

[BTH]

Makes sense if nothing else. He tossed Steve Sullivan's name out the other day apparently on the Team in Montreal; he's not on my list of 8 forwards the Habs might look into but if he's willing to waive his NMC, he might be worthwhile. Wouldn't help the size element though, that's for sure.

I was surprised. I was thinking a Dom Moore/Chris Kelly/Niklas Hagman type (weak 2nd/good third line forward). I don't know how Montreal would acquire a first line winger.

[dlbalr]

I was surprised. I was thinking a Dom Moore/Chris Kelly/Niklas Hagman type (weak 2nd/good third line forward). I don't know how Montreal would acquire a first line winger.

Theoretically, could they not acquire a 2nd line winger and bump Cammalleri up alongside Plekanec and Gionta? That's acquiring a 1st line winger...sort of.

[Mitch]

Theoretically, could they not acquire a 2nd line winger and bump Cammalleri up alongside Plekanec and Gionta? That's acquiring a 1st line winger...sort of.

LOL.... I would pay money to see that line... theoretically. And, I don't think I would need to indulge in too many pops to actually enjoy it.

[dlbalr]

From the CBC Hotstove yesterday, it was mentioned that the Habs were one of two teams (the other being LA) showing strong interest in Ales Hemsky. However, it was also noted that the asking price for Hemsky is extremely high.

Eklund has the Habs talking Brown and Simmonds (that they'd get one of them...gee, just a small difference in talent/value between the two) and that they were in on Ian White. That was the highlight, here's the link for those interested: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Caps-Serious-About-Vokoun-Habs-and-Kings-Deals-Rangers-Pushing-for-BR/1/33849

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

From the CBC Hotstove yesterday, it was mentioned that the Habs were one of two teams (the other being LA) showing strong interest in Ales Hemsky. However, it was also noted that the asking price for Hemsky is extremely high.

Eklund has the Habs talking Brown and Simmonds (that they'd get one of them...gee, just a small difference in talent/value between the two) and that they were in on Ian White. That was the highlight, here's the link for those interested: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Caps-Serious-About-Vokoun-Habs-and-Kings-Deals-Rangers-Pushing-for-BR/1/33849

Hmmm. The Hemsky rumours have surfaced in the past. Whenever one of these rumours keeps coming up over time, I tend to suspect there's something to it. (This is what happened with Tanguay and a few other deals we ended up making). Hemsky's a talented if erratic and injury-prone dude and would definitely kick out top-6 up a notch. But it all comes down to the return. Edmonton will want young talent back, no? Risky business.

[dlbalr]

Hmmm. The Hemsky rumours have surfaced in the past. Whenever one of these rumours keeps coming up over time, I tend to suspect there's something to it. (This is what happened with Tanguay and a few other deals we ended up making). Hemsky's a talented if erratic and injury-prone dude and would definitely kick out top-6 up a notch. But it all comes down to the return. Edmonton will want young talent back, no? Risky business.

If the price on Penner is a 1st + ___, I suspect the price for Hemsky would be a 1st + another prospect picked in the 1st, especially since he, unlike Kaberle who fetched a similar return, is under contract for next season. As I've said a couple times in different threads, that's the type of deal you bite the bullet on if he's the final piece to the puzzle. The Habs aren't in that situation, Hemsky (or frankly anyone else on the block) isn't going to turn them into a Cup contender overnight. That all said, he'd be a good complement to the speedy wingers the Habs already have.

[sakiqc]

If the price on Penner is a 1st + ___, I suspect the price for Hemsky would be a 1st + another prospect picked in the 1st, especially since he, unlike Kaberle who fetched a similar return, is under contract for next season. As I've said a couple times in different threads, that's the type of deal you bite the bullet on if he's the final piece to the puzzle. The Habs aren't in that situation, Hemsky (or frankly anyone else on the block) isn't going to turn them into a Cup contender overnight. That all said, he'd be a good complement to the speedy wingers the Habs already have.

Just a question about Ales Hemsky: wouldn't he become instantly our best forward? I see him as a better Plekanec, at least offensively.

Although we could probably say that because of his all-around game, Tomas is probably one of the best players in the league.

If we do get Hemsky, it could make a pretty dynamic duo with fellow czech Plekanec. I wouldn't hesitate to give a 1st+AK+Carle. Hemsky is younger than Plekanec and still has a year left on his contract. So it's not a rental.

Penner I like too. We don't have players his type. But Hemsky is more in the mold of what we are. Speedy and skilled.

I don't know why the Oilers would trade him though. You don't rebuild by trading young gems. That trade rumor is mostly wishful thinking IMO

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Just a question about Ales Hemsky: wouldn't he become instantly our best forward? I see him as a better Plekanec, at least offensively.

Although we could probably say that because of his all-around game, Tomas is probably one of the best players in the league.

If we do get Hemsky, it could make a pretty dynamic duo with fellow czech Plekanec. I wouldn't hesitate to give a 1st+AK+Carle. Hemsky is younger than Plekanec and still has a year left on his contract. So it's not a rental.

Penner I like too. We don't have players his type. But Hemsky is more in the mold of what we are. Speedy and skilled.

I don't know why the Oilers would trade him though. You don't rebuild by trading young gems. That trade rumor is mostly wishful thinking IMO

Hemsky is 28. Not old, but you're probably looking at maybe 4-5 more years of peak performance there. He is not part of the 'youth movement' in Edmonton and he may be a guy who's worn out his welcome (isn't he one of those guys who was expected to become a real elite player and has therefore tended to become crticised for what he's not, rather than appreciated for what he is?). I don't think it's beyond the pale that they would move him as part of the reconstruction.

He might interest the Habs because we're in an ambiguous place: if healthy, we're a better-than-bubble team that has already shown it can do playoff damage. With good health, effective re-signings (e.g., Wiz) and continued progression from MaxPac and Subban in particular I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that we could seriously contend as early as next season. This is the sort of thinking that could make Hemsky a sensible acquisition. But are we really in a position to deal a 1st rounder + (say) Weber? One to ponder.