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1 minute ago, DON said:

Norlinder just had a hat trick in pre season (I think) blowout game.

Yup ... don't want to get too excited but reports are pretty good so far ... Minnesota 2018 1st rounder Filip Johansson is also with Frölunda ... so some natural internal competition for Mattias.

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I fear I might be at risk of moaning Cole Caufield's stat line during sex.

Its been too long between Habs games and I might be drunk.

I still think it best to go the NCAA route for at least one year, look at Poehling now after waiting couple years, being in weight room twice a day and practising more than playing. Let the kid adjust

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Could be a tough year for some of the marginal CHL players, pushed out by NCAA players jumping to the CHL ... and a good year for the quality of CHL hockey ... assuming the leagues actually play.
 

 

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16 minutes ago, DON said:

SSM assistant captain big Jacob LeGuerrier can help watch Caufield's back, if he goes that route.

 

Jacob certainly has the name for the role of a warrior.

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So, some perspective on the announcement from earlier today regarding college players.  They can't go to the CHL for this season and back to college.  The CHL is deemed a professional league by the NCAA and that definition was not modified by this announcement.  This is for the USHL, European junior divisions, and Canadian Junior A teams (BCHL, OJHL, etc).  Caufield isn't dropping into one of those leagues and neither are Struble, Harris, or any of Montreal's better college prospects.  Rhett Pitlick I think is still USHL-eligible so he's someone that could benefit from this.

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3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

So, some perspective on the announcement from earlier today regarding college players.  They can't go to the CHL for this season and back to college.  The CHL is deemed a professional league by the NCAA and that definition was not modified by this announcement.  This is for the USHL, European junior divisions, and Canadian Junior A teams (BCHL, OJHL, etc).  Caufield isn't dropping into one of those leagues and neither are Struble, Harris, or any of Montreal's better college prospects.  Rhett Pitlick I think is still USHL-eligible so he's someone that could benefit from this.

 

That is always the case ... but for any player who was already planning to turn pro after the 20/21 NCAA season then the CHL, or even a European League, might be an option.

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9 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

That is always the case ... but for any player who was already planning to turn pro after the 20/21 NCAA season then the CHL, or even a European League, might be an option.

 

Or even thinking about it. The options are to go CHL now, and progress your game, or stay in college and study not-hockey, with quite possibly no hockey for a year. If you expect to go pro (and not all college players do, of course) then the CHL or Europe are much better options.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

Or even thinking about it. The options are to go CHL now, and progress your game, or stay in college and study not-hockey, with quite possibly no hockey for a year. If you expect to

McCarron’s at close to 70 games and may make it to 100.  He’s a late first rounder.If he makes it to 100 games, does it mean anything, other than he kept getting chances because of his size.  I always hated the argument that Montreal has done a decent job drafting because I’d the number of NHL’ers they drafted. Number of nhl games means squat. Finding the Kucherov’s in the 2nd round or Brayden Point even later, mow that is successful drafting.  Of our later picks, Gallagher was a gem.  Other than that Subban in the second round was good as he won a Norris.  But than Weber was also a second rounder and has been a Norris finalist,  so it wasn’t like wow, they stole a guy.
 

Off the top of my head, I can’t really think of a really good player other than Gallagher that we picked late unless we go back to Ryder or Markov.  Our bigger problem is the number of first round busts and I think you’d have a better chance of getting a top 10 pick right, than a mid to late 1st round pick unless you have a really good scouting department.  
 

We’ve done a great job of drafting 3rd/4th liners or bottom pairing dmen, but that is hardly what I’d call successful drafting just because those players may have played 100 games.  I’d take 10 legitimate top line forwards or top pairing dmen over fifty 100 gamers any day,

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11 hours ago, GHT120 said:

That is always the case ... but for any player who was already planning to turn pro after the 20/21 NCAA season then the CHL, or even a European League, might be an option.

 

For those, it's a possibility although they could also decide to turn pro and sign now to be ready for the start of the AHL season which appears to be lined up with the OHL and WHL starts.

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

  I always hated the argument that Montreal has done a decent job drafting

Why, it is true.

Great no, horrible no, top 10-15... likely.

The grass isnt greener for most other scouting staffs.

 

I would be curious to see how many of own draft picks each team has on active roster, not that = drafting as GM could be trade happy, but just curious. 

Habs looks like have 12.

 

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15 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Off the top of my head, I can’t really think of a really good player other than Gallagher that we picked late unless we go back to Ryder or Markov.  Our bigger problem is the number of first round busts and I think you’d have a better chance of getting a top 10 pick right, than a mid to late 1st round pick unless you have a really good scouting department.  

 

We’ve done a great job of drafting 3rd/4th liners or bottom pairing dmen, but that is hardly what I’d call successful drafting just because those players may have played 100 games.  I’d take 10 legitimate top line forwards or top pairing dmen over fifty 100 gamers any day,

 

Late rounds are really a lottery of a kind. You take chances and they may or may not work out. In your view, which team is consistently picking solid NHL players in the late rounds?

 

For the Habs, selected players picked after the second round:

  • 2001: Plekanec at 71
  • 2003: Halak at 271
  • 2004: Grabovski at 150
  • 2004: Streit at 262
  • 2005: Kostitsyn at 200
  • 2007: Subban at 43
  • 2010: Gallagher at 147
  • 2016: Mete at 100
  • 2017: Primeau at 199

You can argue that some names don't belong on this list but there are certainly some that do (Plekanec, Halak, Streit, Subban,Gallagher).

 

As for the first round, every team has some busts. Somebody must have done a comparative analysis of this, but I don't know where to find it.

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3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

Late rounds are really a lottery of a kind. You take chances and they may or may not work out. In your view, which team is consistently picking solid NHL players in the late rounds?

 

For the Habs, selected players picked after the second round:

  • 2001: Plekanec at 71
  • 2003: Halak at 271
  • 2004: Grabovski at 150
  • 2004: Streit at 262
  • 2005: Kostitsyn at 200
  • 2007: Subban at 43
  • 2010: Gallagher at 147
  • 2016: Mete at 100
  • 2017: Primeau at 199

You can argue that some names don't belong on this list but there are certainly some that do (Plekanec, Halak, Streit, Subban,Gallagher).

 

As for the first round, every team has some busts. Somebody must have done a comparative analysis of this, but I don't know where to find it.

Subban was a second rounder and pleks third.  That’s not much to show.

 

Compare to TBL under Yzerman:

2011 - Kucherov 2nd round, Palat 7th round

2014 - Point 3rd round

2015 - Cirelli - 3rd round 


That doesn’t include other late picks that are home drafted and developed players in their lineup, or undrafted UFA signings like Johnson that are part of their core.  That’s four guys from their core after the first round and the only one we have that is a comparable in our lineup is Gallagher. 

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16 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Subban was a second rounder and pleks third.  That’s not much to show.

 

Compare to TBL under Yzerman:

2011 - Kucherov 2nd round, Palat 7th round

2014 - Point 3rd round

2015 - Cirelli - 3rd round 


That doesn’t include other late picks that are home drafted and developed players in their lineup, or undrafted UFA signings like Johnson that are part of their core.  That’s four guys from their core after the first round and the only one we have that is a comparable in our lineup is Gallagher. 

 

If we're looking for "core" level players (top six/top four/goalie) from second round or later (I was looking for third or later, my mistake on Subban), then I think these qualify as core-level players. Many have been traded but that doesn't make them any worse as draft picks.

  • 2001: Plekanec at 71
  • 2003: Halak at 271
  • 2004: Emelin at 84 (missed him last time)
  • 2004: Streit at 262
  • 2007: Subban at 43
  • 2010: Gallagher at 147
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2 hours ago, DON said:

 

Puck handling can always look good in highlights, but there have been enough of them to be impressed and optimistic, but I also love his skating ... look forward to seeing him challenge for a spot in 21/22

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6 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Puck handling can always look good in highlights, but there have been enough of them to be impressed and optimistic, but I also love his skating ... look forward to seeing him challenge for a spot in 21/22

Pronman Athletic take on these 2 in habprospect list;

 

3. Alexander Romanov, D, CSKA-KHL

Jan. 6, 2000 | 5-foot-11 | 185 pounds

Tier: High-end NHL player

Skating: 60
Puck Skills: 55
Physical Game: 45
Hockey Sense: 60

 

7. Mattias Norlinder, D, MODO-Allsvenskan

April 12, 2000 | six-foot | 179 pounds

Tier: Legit NHL player

Skating: 60
Puck Skills: 60
Physical Game: 40
Hockey Sense: 60

 

Tool grades are based on the 20-80 scale. In this scale, 50 projects as pro average, 55 as above-average, 60 top third, 70 as elite and 80 as among the very best; 45 is below-average and 40 is fringe pro quality. The shot is only graded if it is notably good.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Pronman Athletic take on these 2 in habprospect list;

 

3. Alexander Romanov, D, CSKA-KHL

Jan. 6, 2000 | 5-foot-11 | 185 pounds

Tier: High-end NHL player

Skating: 60
Puck Skills: 55
Physical Game: 45
Hockey Sense: 60

 

7. Mattias Norlinder, D, MODO-Allsvenskan

April 12, 2000 | six-foot | 179 pounds

Tier: Legit NHL player

Skating: 60
Puck Skills: 60
Physical Game: 40
Hockey Sense: 60

 

Tool grades are based on the 20-80 scale. In this scale, 50 projects as pro average, 55 as above-average, 60 top third, 70 as elite and 80 as among the very best; 45 is below-average and 40 is fringe pro quality. The shot is only graded if it is notably good.

It would be nice to have a dman prospect with a 70 for hockey sense, puck skills, and skating.

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8 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Of course. But 60-60-60 is still very much a legit first-line defenceman.

Mete (5th rated) is listed as 65-55-60 and I see him as a second pairing at very most ... and not at all confident of that happening

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Mete (5th rated) is listed as 65-55-60 and I see him as a second pairing at very most ... and not at all confident of that happening

Mete is good, if not for the lack of scoring.

the type of defenseman that helps you make the playoffs but that does not have much impact in the playoffs 

Like Yannick Weber , he will have a decent NHL career

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9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Mete is good, if not for the lack of scoring.

the type of defenseman that helps you make the playoffs but that does not have much impact in the playoffs 

Like Yannick Weber , he will have a decent NHL career

Were we watching the same dman during the year? How was he effective during the year in helping make the playoffs?  He finally scored the this year, but I wouldn’t call him effective.

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9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Mete is good, if not for the lack of scoring.

the type of defenseman that helps you make the playoffs but that does not have much impact in the playoffs 

Like Yannick Weber , he will have a decent NHL career

Agree ... they are different players (Yannick has a very hard shot) but will have similar enduring careers as 5/6/7 defencemen on good teams, maybe a 4 on an average to poor team.

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Mete finally got a bit of PP time in playoffs. If he got more in reg season, it should help his offensive #s.

I think he has much better passing, skating and puck skills than Y. Weber.

But Petry and Weber will likely eat up most of PP time again next season.

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12 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Mete (5th rated) is listed as 65-55-60 and I see him as a second pairing at very most ... and not at all confident of that happening

 

Some of those ratings were were rather off and didn't reflect the overall rankings (or vice versa). 60-60-60 should very much be a top-pairing defender.

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I've watched a handful of games with Norlinder thus far and have been saying for a while that he's a great prospect. Obviously, Im not anointing him the next Lindstrom, Karlsson or Hedman. However, some hockey experts out of Europe have done just that saying he's the best kept secret out of Europe currently! I recall reading a piece by Jack Han a while back that had me intrigued on the player. Since then, Ive researched and watched him. Im not talking about 2 minute highlight reels either. What I've seen is dominant play from him pretty much always. He is the protagonist in every game he's played that I've watched even if the points weren't there. On top of that he's had accolades from everyone he's played with including former NHL'ers. Even Victor Hedman says he's a diamond. I guess hes seen alot of him because of his brother Oscar. Tobias Enstrom claims hes the best partner he's ever had? The one thing I've noticed of him in the games Ive watched is how is skating is absolutley elite (like Erik Karlsson elite)! His stick is so active, always in the right place as well as is his shoulders when tracking puck/ player.

 

This is one player I insist we dont include in any trade.

Romanov, Norlinder, Primeau and Caufield (obviuosly KK and Suzuki have graduated from prospects to players in my book)

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