nihilz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Minnesota is an interesting trade partner.. I wonder if Vanek would like to play with Desharnais again? Mikko Koivu for Desharnais, Reway, 2nd in 2015 & 2016. Or perhaps take Parenteau for his contract and give up Pominville. You know I hate the thought of trading away Plek but Plek is our most valuable center. The return will be higher. Maybe Eller & DLR can evolve to cover his loss defensively. If Im MB. 1st of July Im trying to sign Vermette. Then trading Plek becomes less of a problem and becomes more of a lateral move in a hockey move or asset swap. You give him Plek's A and the following year you have your coveted bilingual veteran captain. *tongue in cheek.. We will never win with Desharnais top 6 nor will we ever win with Desharnais bottom 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 The Habs don't have their 2nd in 2015, that was used in the Petry deal. Reway does not have the type of value that a lot of people hope for. He's a mid-round pick with lots of skill and lots of ego/attitude concerns. His value by himself is probably a 3rd round pick, certainly not the centrepiece of a proposal. If you want a core guy in Koivu, Minnesota is going to want a core guy (or a prospect who could become one) back, not a collection of mid-round picks and Desharnais. That all said, Koivu is an interesting idea and is a player I think could move this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I never thought of Koivu. While I agree that the specific proposal at issue is probably implausible, it's still a very interesting idea. He had only 48 points last season and is 32, however; is there a risk of buying a white elephant here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I never thought of Koivu. While I agree that the specific proposal at issue is probably implausible, it's still a very interesting idea. He had only 48 points last season and is 32, however; is there a risk of buying a white elephant here? Plekanec for Koivu straight up might work. Minnesota gets out of a cap crunch in the future, they get Plekanec to keep their center depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Plekanec for Koivu straight up might work. Minnesota gets out of a cap crunch in the future, they get Plekanec to keep their center depth. No way Bergevin moves his highest valued trade chip for another aging center, who basically has a 50pt ceiling now. If Plek gets moved he'll go with a first round pick or a legit prospect to get a first line forward. Eric stall makes an absurd amount of money, but he's a guy I'm looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 No way Bergevin moves his highest valued trade chip for another aging center, who basically has a 50pt ceiling now. If Plek gets moved he'll go with a first round pick to get a legit first line forward. Honestly, if Bergevin doesn't does something of serious proportions this offseason. I'm losing faith 100% agree. I want to pick up a young centre who can be a star for years to come. We don't need to make another overpaid Gomez type has been. Four years ago, Koivu was a good option. I also don't want Joe Thornton, Marleau or any another player who is in the downside of their career. We need some Jim Nill type moves to sore up the centre position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 100% agree. I want to pick up a young centre who can be a star for years to come. We don't need to make another overpaid Gomez type has been. Four years ago, Koivu was a good option. I also don't want Joe Thornton, Marleau or any another player who is in the downside of their career. We need some Jim Nill type moves to sore up the centre position. Yup, I guess even staal is getting older, but he has winning pedigree and is a true leader. I do think a younger guy if he comes along would be a better option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Everyone and his dog can agree that the ideal scenario is to pick up a young player with the potential to become an elite #1 C. The reason for kicking around other ideas is that - quite obviously - no organization is going to be in any kind of hurry to trade away a young player who projects to become that. The return for such a player is likely to be mind-bogglingly high. E.g., PK Subban, something like that. A Seguin trade is lightning a bottle, not the sort of thing that fans can reasonably expect or demand from their GM. Like it or not, therefore, the Habs have to consider other scenarios. There would be nothing wrong with acquiring a player like Thornton, say, as a short-term solution to the problem at C, provided the asking price is within reason. Staal is a particularly interesting possibility because - at least in theory - he should have 5-6 more years ahead of him as an impact player. But specifics aside, acquiring a veteran or some form of 'patch up' job might be the only way to fix the problem without gutting the system or the current roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Yea Koivu would be great but only moving Desharnais.. add whatever picks and prospects not named McCarron, Scherbak or Hudon. Yep. Agree. If Plek is going out I'd need to see Hanzal, Draisaitl/RNH/Eberle, ROR or Saad ..maybe a Boone Jenner or Sean Couturier! Luongo doesn't have very many seasons left.. Fucale might be great.. Throw in Beaulieu. With Huberdeau and Gallant in FLA. For Barkov or Bjugstad? Ante up and get Kulikov. Could be good.. I don't think Thornton would come at a very high cost but he'd be my last choice. Right after Eric Staal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Yea Koivu would be great but only moving Desharnais.. add whatever picks and prospects not named McCarron, Scherbak or Hudon. Then why does Minnesota do it? "We want Koivu but refuse to add any player or prospect of consequence. How's that sound?" Tacking on a late first rounder isn't going to enthuse them and the Habs aren't in a position to cough up multiple high picks since their prospect pool is thinning out in a hurry. If the Habs want Koivu, they will have to pay something of considerable value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Staal could easily come in and put up 70 points. 6'4 big Canadian boy with hands and mean side. Point per game player in playoffs with a triple gold under his belt. Why would he be at the bottom of your list. Yea Koivu would be great but only moving Desharnais.. add whatever picks and prospects not named McCarron, Scherbak or Hudon. Yep. Agree. If Plek is going out I'd need to see Hanzal, Draisaitl/RNH/Eberle, ROR or Saad ..maybe a Boone Jenner or Sean Couturier! Luongo doesn't have very many seasons left.. Fucale might be great.. Throw in Beaulieu. With Huberdeau and Gallant in FLA. For Barkov or Bjugstad? Ante up and get Kulikov. Could be good.. I don't think Thornton would come at a very high cost but he'd be my last choice. Right after Eric Staal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Staal could easily come in and put up 70 points. 6'4 big Canadian boy with hands and mean side. Point per game player with a triple gold under his belt. Why would he be at the bottom of your list. Im sure Staal would go out west. Edmonton would be all over him before anything we could offer. Then why does Minnesota do it? "We want Koivu but refuse to add any player or prospect of consequence. How's that sound?" Tacking on a late first rounder isn't going to enthuse them and the Habs aren't in a position to cough up multiple high picks since their prospect pool is thinning out in a hurry. If the Habs want Koivu, they will have to pay something of considerable value. Save salary. They have players to sign and not alot of cap to work with. Parise, Granlund, Coyle down the middle Desharnais would be a discound ppg match to Koivu without the intangibles. There has to be a combination of prospects in the organization and picks available to sway the scales. Mind you, If the Wild are moving Koivu, Im certain they get better offers elsewhere. Imo, The Habs are in a position now where stocking up is no longer necessary. Weaknesses identified, cupboards full and the fat being trimmed. Time to swing for the fences. Ultimately, Habs won't get over the hump with DD PAP and Emelin(playing #5) eating 11M$. I trust MB to make the right decisions but hope he has it in him to go balls out if need be! Now is the time, not 3 or 4 seasons from now. Invest NOW! The East is ripe for picking. Stick a fork in it zoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Yea Koivu would be great but only moving Desharnais.. add whatever picks and prospects not named McCarron, Scherbak or Hudon. Yep. Agree. If Plek is going out I'd need to see Hanzal, Draisaitl/RNH/Eberle, ROR or Saad ..maybe a Boone Jenner or Sean Couturier! Luongo doesn't have very many seasons left.. Fucale might be great.. Throw in Beaulieu. With Huberdeau and Gallant in FLA. For Barkov or Bjugstad? Ante up and get Kulikov. Could be good.. I don't think Thornton would come at a very high cost but he'd be my last choice. Right after Eric Staal.. The Panthers big need is a scoring winger, they have the center depth but won't part with Barkov or Bjugstad. I could see them using Vincent Trochek as a trade chip with Mike Matheson or Dylan Olsen...With the wants and needs, I don't see the two teams doing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Everyone and his dog can agree that the ideal scenario is to pick up a young player with the potential to become an elite #1 C. The reason for kicking around other ideas is that - quite obviously - no organization is going to be in any kind of hurry to trade away a young player who projects to become that. The return for such a player is likely to be mind-bogglingly high. E.g., PK Subban, something like that. A Seguin trade is lightning a bottle, not the sort of thing that fans can reasonably expect or demand from their GM. Like it or not, therefore, the Habs have to consider other scenarios. There would be nothing wrong with acquiring a player like Thornton, say, as a short-term solution to the problem at C, provided the asking price is within reason. Staal is a particularly interesting possibility because - at least in theory - he should have 5-6 more years ahead of him as an impact player. But specifics aside, acquiring a veteran or some form of 'patch up' job might be the only way to fix the problem without gutting the system or the current roster. They gotta be careful though, the last overreaction about the centers brought on the Age of Gomez. Be careful what we wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Everyone and his dog can agree that the ideal scenario is to pick up a young player with the potential to become an elite #1 C. The reason for kicking around other ideas is that - quite obviously - no organization is going to be in any kind of hurry to trade away a young player who projects to become that. The return for such a player is likely to be mind-bogglingly high. E.g., PK Subban, something like that. A Seguin trade is lightning a bottle, not the sort of thing that fans can reasonably expect or demand from their GM. Like it or not, therefore, the Habs have to consider other scenarios. There would be nothing wrong with acquiring a player like Thornton, say, as a short-term solution to the problem at C, provided the asking price is within reason. Staal is a particularly interesting possibility because - at least in theory - he should have 5-6 more years ahead of him as an impact player. But specifics aside, acquiring a veteran or some form of 'patch up' job might be the only way to fix the problem without gutting the system or the current roster. I think you are close here to what MB is thinking. Even the second tier centers will be expensive. ideally we will get lucky and draft our own. Keep drafting centers till one or two stick to the wall. This ought to cause hysterics, but I will throw it out anyways; it may be easier at this point to replace Subban than get a true number one center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Save salary. They have players to sign and not alot of cap to work with. Parise, Granlund, Coyle down the middle Desharnais would be a discound ppg match to Koivu without the intangibles. There has to be a combination of prospects in the organization and picks available to sway the scales. Mind you, If the Wild are moving Koivu, Im certain they get better offers elsewhere. Imo, The Habs are in a position now where stocking up is no longer necessary. Weaknesses identified, cupboards full and the fat being trimmed. I'd expect Minny would rather a winger than Desharnais, especially if they're taking someone back with a bit of term and money. As you said, it's likely they'd get better offers. The prospect cupboards aren't as full as you might think at first glance. Over the next couple of weeks, I'll be running one of my depth series and you'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I'd expect Minny would rather a winger than Desharnais, especially if they're taking someone back with a bit of term and money. As you said, it's likely they'd get better offers. The prospect cupboards aren't as full as you might think at first glance. Over the next couple of weeks, I'll be running one of my depth series and you'll see what I mean. Amen. Keep reading about how deep our prospect pool is. Its not that fantastic. Don't see any top 6 guys besides sherbak. Defense is slim pickings, besides maybe Dietz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Amen. Keep reading about how deep our prospect pool is. Its not that fantastic. Don't see any top 6 guys besides sherbak. Defense is slim pickings, besides maybe Dietz. Everyone who projects as a top-6 or top-4 is already on the team. There isn't single blue chipper in the system. The best guys have some question marks - Hudon, Tinordi, Sherbak. McCarron. They might get big minutes out of one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 And to get a 'blue-chipper' you likely need to either deal away top quality roster player (i.e. Cory Schnieder, a starting goalie was worth a pick #9-Horvat), or have a terrible season. Not sure Bergevin is willing to try and trade up from 26th; how high would Plekanec, Eller, Emelin, Beaulieu, Tinordi, or a Gallagher +pick #26 get you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Like I said in the 'improvement' thread, piecemeal improvement is the likeliest outcome IMHO. Zoot is not going to radically alter his vision of building from the net on out and is probably not going to blow up the system, or the core, in a desperate lunge for the brass ring. Nor is he liable to deviate from his commitment to building a long-term contender, which means he won't start dishing picks and prospects willy-nilly. This will frustrate some fans who lust after the Big Move, the Seguin-type home run, but it's not clear to me that we're in a situation where we have to make a massive all-or-nothing move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The last time the Habs almost made a home run trade it would have meant Ilya Kovalchuk coming to the Habs as an 18 year old. The deal included a young Andrei Markov going to Atlanta and the deal fell apart because the Habs wanted to give up Theodore instead of Garon and the Thrashers wanted Garon. The problem with the "home run" analogy is its inaccurate. It's more like trying to get a hole in one on a golf course. Rarely you get it in. Sometimes it takes a few extra swings. Sometimes it looks like it's going in, hits a tree and falls in the lake. The greatest golfers in the world aren't because they have 100 hole in ones. It's because they need the least amount of swings to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The last time the Habs almost made a home run trade it would have meant Ilya Kovalchuk coming to the Habs as an 18 year old. The deal included a young Andrei Markov going to Atlanta and the deal fell apart because the Habs wanted to give up Theodore instead of Garon and the Thrashers wanted Garon. The problem with the "home run" analogy is its inaccurate. It's more like trying to get a hole in one on a golf course. Rarely you get it in. Sometimes it takes a few extra swings. Sometimes it looks like it's going in, hits a tree and falls in the lake. The greatest golfers in the world aren't because they have 100 hole in ones. It's because they need the least amount of swings to win. The irony in that trade is that it would not have mattered who they gave up as neither ones career blossomed after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Plekanec, Emelin, and a second round pick for Eric Staal. No trade clauses probably an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Plekanec, Emelin, and a second round pick for Eric Staal. No trade clauses probably an issue That's a reasonable deal. Carolina probably wants a first. The question is whether he's available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Why would Carolina make this trade?? They already have a 2nd/3rd line centre in the younger stall. They'll want someone younger and more offensive than pleks. Plekanec, Emelin, and a second round pick for Eric Staal. No trade clauses probably an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.