illWill Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The more I think about this hiring, the more I like it. Unlike most new coach hires, Therrien is very familiar with this team already, as he's been working for RDS lately. He's already coached them and knows exactly what that entails. There is only one player (Markov) who is still with the team from when he was there. There is new owners and management, so it kind of is a fresh start with a familiar face. And because he is a rehire, it sort of promotes a team loyalty and identity, which will help with the image of the team around the league. I read somewhere that when Therrien told his Grandma he was able to coach the Habs again, he shed a tear. I definitely like a guy behind the bench who appreciates the opportunity given to him. And I'm still holding out hope that Crosby will become UFA next year and sign with the Habs, and perhaps Therrien will be a factor in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Wait, I'm not supposed to give Bergevin any time? Bergevin needs to be fired on his first mistakes? You have to give management room. Otherwise you're just playing an EA Sports hockey game. Seriously, what teams fire new GMs in their first two years? I realize that he needs time, but what I'm saying is he has to make the right moves. He needs to move the team in the right direction right away. If we are going to improve, we need to make good moves and right away, and if he does we will be get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I realize that he needs time, but what I'm saying is he has to make the right moves. He needs to move the team in the right direction right away. If we are going to improve, we need to make good moves and right away, and if he does we will be get better. Make the right moves and we will get better. Did you have an essay written to explain this concept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Make the right moves and we will get better. Did you have an essay written to explain this concept? For instance, do not trade your top defensive prospect (and McDonagh was our top prospect, I knew it at the time so Gainey should of as well) for Scott Gomez. Do not acquire Tomas Kaberle at any point in your reign, and do not trade arguably your top scorer for an underachiving winger that takes stupid penaties and does not contribue offensively. Those are a few things at the top. When every one of those moves were made I knew they were going to be terrible moves. As long as Bergevin does not make moves that everyone is unanimous are terrible moves we will get better. I guess what I was saying was when a GM makes moves like I mentioned above, we all knew we were going to be worse, if he does not repeat those mistakes we WILL get better. Even questionable moves (hiring Therrien) may be the right move. Time will tell. We didn't need time to tell with the above made moves. We knew right away, so he needs to avoid doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 For instance, do not trade your top defensive prospect (and McDonagh was our top prospect, I knew it at the time so Gainey should of as well) for Scott Gomez. Do not acquire Tomas Kaberle at any point in your reign, and do not trade arguably your top scorer for an underachiving winger that takes stupid penaties and does not contribue offensively. Those are a few things at the top. When every one of those moves were made I knew they were going to be terrible moves. As long as Bergevin does not make moves that everyone is unanimous are terrible moves we will get better. I guess what I was saying was when a GM makes moves like I mentioned above, we all knew we were going to be worse, if he does not repeat those mistakes we WILL get better. Even questionable moves (hiring Therrien) may be the right move. Time will tell. We didn't need time to tell with the above made moves. We knew right away, so he needs to avoid doing that. I'm a big fan of leaving the new management and coaching team in place for 3 to 4 years at least. I'm really thinking that a quick turnaround is quite likely this coming season, but a slump the following season should not be the end of the coaching or management team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I noticed a few interesting comments from Therrien yesterday, in which he questioned the teams motivation and conditioning. He pointed out that you cannot have that many games lost to injury as a team, and said he would have to look into that. He also stated the need to have more leadership and discipline from each player. I agree that on many nights, this team shit the bed, so to speak, and just didn't seem to have the expected effort level, especially against lackluster teams (ie, Toronto) which they should have beaten. I'm sure it was obvious to everyone that this team needs a coach who will light a fire under a few guys, so I think Therrien might be a good choice in that regards. (Just had a text from a buddy who cheers for the leafs, and even he felt the habs were undermotivated last year, especially against his team) As for him not being liked by players, I suggest that some people read Larry Robinsons book, and get an idea of what players thought about Scotty Bowman, because to a man, they couldn't stand the guy. Personally, I'm not looking for a coach who will make the players all warm and comfy, we need a motivator, who will do whatever is needed to get results. As for the conditioning issue, I'm not sure how pro hockey players in this day and age are not showing up in the best possible condition, but hey, what do I know. Maybe he is on to something there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You realize that "lackluster teams:" still win about 45% of their games, right? I always find it funny when fans say... "but that team is in last place, we are better than them, we shouldn't lose to them"... because it doesn't recognize the fact that no team goes 82-0, or 0-82. You are gonna beat some teams that are better than you in the standings (vancouver, detroit this season) and you are gonna lose some games to worse teams. The key is to minimize it, not to avoid it entirely and lets face it, we were a 28th place club, so many teams looked at the Habs as the easy pickings on the schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Others have pointed out quite correctly that Jacques Martin was the bad cop and Kirk Muller was the good cop. Players could be angry at Martin for saying something about their game and then work on it with Muller. Good cops, much like bad cops, only make good coaches for a while. The problem with good cops as head coach is that they have a tendency to get too close to the players, especially the veterans, and suddenly they can't discipline them for a bad game anymore because they are a friend. You need the dichotomy of both there to balance the team. Therrien will need a good cop and a specialist. I agree that on many nights, this team shit the bed, so to speak, and just didn't seem to have the expected effort level, especially against lackluster teams (ie, Toronto) which they should have beaten. Montreal and Toronto will almost always be a 3-3 series. 2011-2012: 3-3 2010-2011: 3-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You realize that "lackluster teams:" still win about 45% of their games, right? I always find it funny when fans say... "but that team is in last place, we are better than them, we shouldn't lose to them"... because it doesn't recognize the fact that no team goes 82-0, or 0-82. You are gonna beat some teams that are better than you in the standings (vancouver, detroit this season) and you are gonna lose some games to worse teams. The key is to minimize it, not to avoid it entirely and lets face it, we were a 28th place club, so many teams looked at the Habs as the easy pickings on the schedule. My issue, as stated, was the effort level against these teams. I feel this team wasn't prepared to give the required effort to win these games. Others have pointed out quite correctly that Jacques Martin was the bad cop and Kirk Muller was the good cop. Players could be angry at Martin for saying something about their game and then work on it with Muller. Good cops, much like bad cops, only make good coaches for a while. The problem with good cops as head coach is that they have a tendency to get too close to the players, especially the veterans, and suddenly they can't discipline them for a bad game anymore because they are a friend. You need the dichotomy of both there to balance the team. Therrien will need a good cop and a specialist. Montreal and Toronto will almost always be a 3-3 series. 2011-2012: 3-3 2010-2011: 3-3 Please elaborate in the new tread I just started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 As for him not being liked by players, I suggest that some people read Larry Robinsons book, and get an idea of what players thought about Scotty Bowman, because to a man, they couldn't stand the guy. Personally, I'm not looking for a coach who will make the players all warm and comfy, we need a motivator, who will do whatever is needed to get results. I agree with you in theory, but it seems today's NHL'ers are pre-madonnas, who just completely give up on a coach they don't like and wait for him to get fired. It seems that now coachs need to earn the respect of the room rather than demand it like the good ol' days. I wish it wasn't that way, but I think that had a lot to do with our issues last year. I suspect the team hated Martin's approach and just said, "F#$K it". When that didn't work, Cammy spoke out and got his wish out of the city. I also think we (as fans) care a whole lot more about the Habs than the players, Montreal is simply a destination for most guys here, it's all business, and if it doesn't work out, they simply move on. When Robinson was playing, those guys were invested in the city, fans, team etc. I don't think there is a way to get that back either, due to inflated salaries and so much movement among players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I agree with you in theory, but it seems today's NHL'ers are pre-madonnas, Pre-Madonnas? So what are they? Bette Midlers, Chers, or Diana Ross-es? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 One thing I like about Therrien that has been missing for a while is communication. Carbo's biggest weakness was his inability to communicate with players. We often heard from players that they didn't know what he wanted. We hear the same thing about Jacque too. There will be no lack of communication from Therrien. I also think that he is a coach that pushes players and demands passion, something lacking in the last few years. Therrien may be a transitional coach. He might be the guy that gets us back to respectability, grows the kids, but ultimately gets replaced when we are ready for a cup run and the top few coaches in the league are interested in coming in. I don't think that is a bad plan given the lack of coaching prospects that were actually available and interested. (note that many in the media have stated that Roy was never really interested unless he got an offer he couldn't refuse). I won't be surprised to see this team strong, ready to content, and suddenly, Roy is the coach. He isn't interested in the rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I agree with you in theory, but it seems today's NHL'ers are pre-madonnas, who just completely give up on a coach they don't like and wait for him to get fired. It seems that now coachs need to earn the respect of the room rather than demand it like the good ol' days. I wish it wasn't that way, but I think that had a lot to do with our issues last year. I suspect the team hated Martin's approach and just said, "F#$K it". When that didn't work, Cammy spoke out and got his wish out of the city. I also think we (as fans) care a whole lot more about the Habs than the players, Montreal is simply a destination for most guys here, it's all business, and if it doesn't work out, they simply move on. When Robinson was playing, those guys were invested in the city, fans, team etc. I don't think there is a way to get that back either, due to inflated salaries and so much movement among players. I disagree. I think management is at fault, much to quick to juts fire a coach when things go bad. I think players need to know that this is the coach, and you play for him, if you don't like it, too bad. Buffalo, Nashville, Detroit, they seem to have that attitude, its all about having a confident management team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Pre-Madonnas? So what are they? Bette Midlers, Chers, or Diana Ross-es? Prima donnas. haha, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I disagree. I think management is at fault, much to quick to juts fire a coach when things go bad. I think players need to know that this is the coach, and you play for him, if you don't like it, too bad. Buffalo, Nashville, Detroit, they seem to have that attitude, its all about having a confident management team. Again, I agree with you as well, however, fans/media (especially in Montreal) demand a move to be made, and they are left with little choice. Combine that with the fact that these guys don't really give a shit, and most likely can tank a whole season, as long as they get paid, and management kind of has to make a move. This board was crazy last year with people demanding Martin's head, and that was 3 months before he was actually fired. I believe you have to treat players these days with kidgloves or else they will just give up on you, because there is no vested interest in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I held off commenting until the shock wore off. I was like some on here, i couldn't believe they hired Therrien. Then someone posrted his actual coaching accomplishments, they are pretty impressive. Then i read someone posted the actual line up he had and i didn't know whether to laugh or cry when i saw that. I will give him a chance, i am interested to see who the assistants will be. I honestly can;t remember what kind of system he plays other than he expects hard work and passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Whether we like it or not, most top teams are playing pretty defensive systems, using their talent to jump on mistakes. The big O teams do well in the regular season but come playoff team, those who commit to defense first seem to win. Chicago / Philly was an anomaly, imo. It was the battle of the sucky goalies. Offense one that one. Given we have Price, Markov, PK, Gorges, etc., a defensive system probably suits this team (with some fast strike offense). I won't be surprised to see Therrien use that system. (or any other coach we hired). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 How many players on current roster had Crazy Mike harshly criticized on RDS shows, not expecting to ever be their coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 How many players on current roster had Crazy Mike harshly criticized on RDS shows, not expecting to ever be their coach? I doubt it's a problem. He was actually rather cool on RDS. Now Kaberle might be a problem. The ultimate in "soff" defenseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 He's been particularly harsh to PK and Eller; both of which scare me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 They better not play soff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I doubt it's a problem. He was actually rather cool on RDS. Now Kaberle might be a problem. The ultimate in "soff" defenseman. thanks, my french is poor and just pick up bits/pieces and dont watch antichamber.Kaberle is criticized by many (which i dont understand) and he would likely admit he isnt the most physical d-man, and unlike Cammalleri Kaberle is a team player who wouldnt ever whine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Two words: Patrick Lalime Don't utter those words around my wife, lol. Yes, very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Pre-Madonnas? So what are they? Bette Midlers, Chers, or Diana Ross-es? Exactly the problem. We need more Celine Dions types, you know, Franco divas. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He's been particularly harsh to PK and Eller; both of which scare me. I'm a big fan of both these guys, but truth be told, PK often tries to do too much, and Eller is sometimes really good, but not consistant at all. Both typical flaws for young players, and something the new coach will want to address. Therrien was asked about his RDS comments during the press conf., and he said he didn't think he said anything which the players would hold against him, and said he was honest with his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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