Nov. 15, Blue Jackets vs Habs, 7:00 PM

[DON]

Wish someone would remind Bourque that he is larger than DD and actually allowed to physically contact the opposition.

Eller is now 28th best centre for FO%, which is a huge leap for any top six Hab centre for awhile.

Diaz a shot blocker, smart play.

Markov just seems to be playing better than ever.

DD is still a deadweight and playing him 21 shifts (when Plekanec and Galchenyuk played 23 & 22), is simply a killer, but they keep running him out at end of periods and giving him every chance to do something, but at the moment it is costly, especially I think to Bournival who would benefit from a few more shifts.

Briere looked OK.

Galchenyuk seemed around the net a lot and looks good on the PP.

Budaj again played solid.

[Colin]

I saw long stretches of the game, here's what I saw:

DD looks better. That's not saying a whole lot, though.

Briere looks better. In this case, though, he really does look better. He has something over DD that I can't quite put my finger on - I've been searching for an appropriate term all night, but I can't think of one. Confident slickness. He looks so much smarter out there.

Markov. Just think of those seasons where he was lost to us. Where *could* we have been with him fully healthy? The more he plays this season, the more I look at Subban and think wow, you still have a ways to go, son. Markov will surely be overlooked for the more flashy defenders, but the more the season goes on, the more Markov looks absolutely elite. His poise has increased season to season and this year he looks... well honestly he looks like a Lidstrom-type defender you want anchoring your back line until he retires. Rumours have Montreal getting ready to talk with Diaz. If this is over Markov, this is a calamitous mistake. Markov MUST be a priority. I'd sign him a full three years more and wouldn't worry about it at all. And he's going to make a similar sum to what he's making now, which will be tough, but essential.

Nice to see Eller starting to be rewarded again. There are some who say he wasn't getting points so therefore was irrelevant recently, but I'd counter by saying he was still making more chances than ever before but he was playing against better opposition talent. He's adjusting and it looks great.

Galchenyuk. So here's the thing, when the other kids weren't able to find points quite as much, who kept finding a way on to the scoresheet? Now he's on track for a 60+ point season, and I don't think anyone would disagree that he's still getting better. 'Nuff said.

[BCHabnut]

I streamed the game last night and the American announcer kept calling him Gachelnuk. Made me think. How many people even know who he is?

[Neech]

I streamed the game last night and the American announcer kept calling him Gachelnuk. Made me think. How many people even know who he is?

Some people just have trouble reading. It's like Don Cherry: if there are 8+ letters and it looks foreign, it's going to be mispronounced.

Kostygin

Korvalev

Yammy Jagr

You're right about Galchenyuk flying under the radar for many people, though.

[DON]

I streamed the game last night and the American announcer kept calling him Gachelnuk. Made me think. How many people even know who he is?

Yes, sounded so odd, then he actually got it correct once or twice.

Don't think Ohio is a big hockey market.

I would guess that most Canuck fans likely don't know who Galchenyuk is neither and they might say "that young Russian on Habs looks good" and that maybe about extent of familiarity.

He is tied for 50th in scoring and will need to climb scoring race or/and play a super Olympics for USA, then would get a bit more recognition in other markets.

[hab29RETIRED]

I saw long stretches of the game, here's what I saw:

DD looks better. That's not saying a whole lot, though.

Briere looks better. In this case, though, he really does look better. He has something over DD that I can't quite put my finger on - I've been searching for an appropriate term all night, but I can't think of one. Confident slickness. He looks so much smarter out there.

Markov. Just think of those seasons where he was lost to us. Where *could* we have been with him fully healthy? The more he plays this season, the more I look at Subban and think wow, you still have a ways to go, son. Markov will surely be overlooked for the more flashy defenders, but the more the season goes on, the more Markov looks absolutely elite. His poise has increased season to season and this year he looks... well honestly he looks like a Lidstrom-type defender you want anchoring your back line until he retires. Rumours have Montreal getting ready to talk with Diaz. If this is over Markov, this is a calamitous mistake. Markov MUST be a priority. I'd sign him a full three years more and wouldn't worry about it at all. And he's going to make a similar sum to what he's making now, which will be tough, but essential.

Nice to see Eller starting to be rewarded again. There are some who say he wasn't getting points so therefore was irrelevant recently, but I'd counter by saying he was still making more chances than ever before but he was playing against better opposition talent. He's adjusting and it looks great.

Galchenyuk. So here's the thing, when the other kids weren't able to find points quite as much, who kept finding a way on to the scoresheet? Now he's on track for a 60+ point season, and I don't think anyone would disagree that he's still getting better. 'Nuff said.

I was shocked when we signed him for three years - one few good signings by PG, although i had hoped they would have signed him for 5 or 6 years.

I don't get why they are talking to Diaz right now. Get it done with Markov and Subban and then deal with the others in order of priority. Prioritize to the critical Dmen, lock up Eller and then work your way down. Hopefully they finally lock up Subban long-term for 8 years, Markov for another 3-4 years and eller for 5 years.

[DON]

I was shocked when we signed him for three years - one few good signings by PG, although i had hoped they would have signed him for 5 or 6 years.

I don't get why they are talking to Diaz right now. Get it done with Markov and Subban and then deal with the others in order of priority. Prioritize to the critical Dmen, lock up Eller and then work your way down. Hopefully they finally lock up Subban long-term for 8 years, Markov for another 3-4 years and eller for 5 years.

Or Bergevin wants to find out what Diaz/agent are looking for in a raise, no-trade clause etc long before trade deadline; whereas Markov/Subban maybe are locks to get done and neither is even a possibility of being traded at deadline?

[hab29RETIRED]

Or Bergevin wants to find out what Diaz/agent are looking for in a raise, no-trade clause etc long before trade deadline; whereas Markov/Subban maybe are locks to get done and neither is even a possibility of being traded at deadline?

I'd rather determine what it is going to cost to lock the pieces we need first and than see what is left for the nice to haves.

[DON]

I'd rather determine what it is going to cost to lock the pieces we need first and than see what is left for the nice to haves.

But range for Markov and Subban salary is likely not very wide (maybe $6-7/year for Subban and 5-6 for Markov, just the term is more an unknown) and they are not expendable or tradable as Diaz is.

So, my guess would be that Bergevin wants to shortly decide whether to; extend Diaz (maybe he will take hometown discount), trade (if he is looking for too much) or keep him for playoffs and let him walk for nothing (if not in big demand)?

[Guest Stogey24]

But range for Markov and Subban salary is likely not very wide (maybe $6-7/year for Subban and 5-6 for Markov, just the term is more an unknown) and they are not expendable.or tradable as Diaz is.

So, my guess would be that Bergevin wants to shortly decide whether to; extend Diaz (maybe he will take hometown discount), trade (if he is looking for too much) or keep him for playoffs and let him walk for nothing (if not in big demand)?

Diaz home town discount?

[hab29RETIRED]

I think the range for Subban is going to start at $7m. His agent can easily get that on a short term deal by simply going to arbitration.

Markov will start at his current deal, which I think is around $5.75m. Given they are talking about $7m for Phaneuf, if he wants Markov will easily get that on the open market. We were able to get him to sign at the same rate on his existing deal, because there was a risk of him coming off an injury plagued couple of years. But if you think about it, Markov is playing for an annual rate negotiated 6 or 7 years ago.

I think best case scenerio will be $13.5m for the two, more likely will be around $15m.

This is why MB playing hardball with Subban was stupid, as we probably could have got him locked up long term for under $6m. Hell prior to the lockout I was saying let's lock him up to a 12 to 15 year deal in the $5m to $5.5m range. We were talking about a kid who was committed to fitness and was an obvious top two dman.

Diaz will want at LEAST $3m, which is probably less than what he will command as a UFA. Given what we have committed to Emelin and Gorges - around $8m - can we afford $26m for 5 dmen? Especially when Gorges and Diaz are best suited as 3rd pairing dmen and we still need atop 4 if Tinordi, patryn or Belieau are not ready?

But range for Markov and Subban salary is likely not very wide (maybe $6-7/year for Subban and 5-6 for Markov, just the term is more an unknown) and they are not expendable or tradable as Diaz is.

So, my guess would be that Bergevin wants to shortly decide whether to; extend Diaz (maybe he will take hometown discount), trade (if he is looking for too much) or keep him for playoffs and let him walk for nothing (if not in big demand)?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

With Diaz, sign, then look to trade him.

This will be the first season where Bergevin has to start making really serious decisions with ramifications for the rebuild. It's gonna be interesting.

[Guest Stogey24]

With Diaz, sign, then look to trade him.

This will be the first season where Bergevin has to start making really serious decisions with ramifications for the rebuild. It's gonna be interesting.

Next year is when M.B gets to stamp his name on this team. A TON of decisions to make.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Next year is when M.B gets to stamp his name on this team. A TON of decisions to make.

Yes. So much is riding on MB in the next two seasons, it's scary.

I'm not at all an expert on the Habs's system, but I'm still not convinced we have a critical mass of elite young/youthful talent to become true contenders. (Of course, watching McDonagh on Saturday was depressing in this respect, as it always is; he's just the #3-4 blueliner we need). Very curious to see what Bergevin makes of it all...and we'll start to know more at this year's deadline, I suspect.

[Guest Stogey24]

Yes. So much is riding on MB in the next two seasons, it's scary.

I'm not at all an expert on the Habs's system, but I'm still not convinced we have a critical mass of elite young/youthful talent to become true contenders. (Of course, watching McDonagh on Saturday was depressing in this respect, as it always is; he's just the #3-4 blueliner we need). Very curious to see what Bergevin makes of it all...and we'll start to know more at this year's deadline, I suspect.

Bergevin seems to have a head on his shoulders. I still have faith in him after signing Briere.

McDonaugh is the main reason I would never trade Beaulieu or Tinordi.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Bergevin seems to have a head on his shoulders. I still have faith in him after signing Briere.

McDonaugh is the main reason I would never trade Beaulieu or Tinordi.

Well, it's one thing to trade a young, stud blueliner for a veteran with a huge contract who proceeds to stop playing at anything like the level he'd always played at over his career. It's another to trade a young, stud blueliner for a comparable elite young talent at another position. E.g., if Beaulieu was shipped out as part of a package for Yakupov, say, that'd be high risk, but not analogous to the disastrous Gomez deal. But anyway, I'm not saying we should trade those guys - just saying that every case is different.

[Colin]

This is why MB playing hardball with Subban was stupid, as we probably could have got him locked up long term for under $6m. Hell prior to the lockout I was saying let's lock him up to a 12 to 15 year deal in the $5m to $5.5m range. We were talking about a kid who was committed to fitness and was an obvious top two dman.

You remember in the movie The Lion King when the monkey whacked Simba in the head with the stick?

"It does not matter, it's in the past."

We can go round and round and on and on about trading Patrick Roy for parts etc, etc, etc, ad nausea, but...

It does not matter. It's in the past.

[Trizzak]

You remember in the movie The Lion King when the monkey whacked Simba in the head with the stick?

"It does not matter, it's in the past."

We can go round and round and on and on about trading Patrick Roy for parts etc, etc, etc, ad nausea, but...

It does not matter. It's in the past.

Also known as the Rob Ford defense...

"I smoked crack before, but I don't now, so why does it matter?"

[Colin]

Also known as the Rob Ford defense...

"I smoked crack before, but I don't now, so why does it matter?"

I find myself watching more Toronto TV rather than Habs games lately because the former is SO much more amusing.

[PMAC]

I think the range for Subban is going to start at $7m. His agent can easily get that on a short term deal by simply going to arbitration.

IThis is why MB playing hardball with Subban was stupid, as we probably could have got him locked up long term for under $6m. Hell prior to the lockout I was saying let's lock him up to a 12 to 15 year deal in the $5m to $5.5m range. We were talking about a kid who was committed to fitness and was an obvious top two dman.

And then what if Subban folded under the pressure of the big contract and we have him as a salary cap anchor for years? Hindsight is always 20/20. Similarly the DD deal is not bad in and of itself...it looks awful because he is in such an awful slump but if he starts puttng up points it will look bettter.

[hab29RETIRED]

There is difference with a guy who has always been an elite talent and a guy we signed out of the echl.

Subban since the first time he came up was a guy you knew was going to be a Norris candidate. DD was a guy we rushed to sign, when everyone knew the cap was coming down and there would be teams who would not have the room to sign all their players. There was no need to rush into signing DD and Bouillon.

And then what if Subban folded under the pressure of the big contract and we have him as a salary cap anchor for years? Hindsight is always 20/20. Similarly the DD deal is not bad in and of itself...it looks awful because he is in such an awful slump but if he starts puttng up points it will look bettter.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Subban is not going to "fold under a big contract." Subban never folds. He ain't the foldin' kind. When are people going to realize what an unbelievable stud this guy is? Who worries about, say, Shea Weber "folding?" Why worry about PK, then?

I agree that it's all water under the bridge, and I also have no objection to paying players what they're worth. But that Bergevin may have missed the chance to lock up Subban on a cheap, long-term deal (something that I don't believe we know for certain he could have done, incidentally) could be understood as one consequence of cleaning house. New GM and coach comes in, neither have first-hand knowledge of what kind of man PK is; influenced by the universal suspicion of his "character" they proceed to err on the side of caution in his contract.

These kinds of errors always happen when you bring in new guys. Look at JM driving Sergei Kostitsyn out of town just to make a point. Perhaps he wouldn't have been so eager to throw a flawed-but-useful player on the scrap-pile if he'd had a little more time in the driver's seat.

Fans who are too eager to throw management on the junk-pile might keep in mind that "transitional" errors of this sort are basically inevitable.