ICEWATER77 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 asst coach boullion...nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuternoga Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Cube is good. I like him but we have to move on and let play our young guns. PS BONNE FÊTE JEAN BÉLIVEAU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Cube is such a good nickname for Frankie. Sure, the obvious origin is "Bouillon Cube" ... but I think it's fairly descriptive of Bouillon. He's 5'8 tall, nearly 5'8" wide at the shoulders, and while the ribcage doesn't come close to 5'8" in diameter, it's big enough that "cube" seems to describe his general shape. At 200 lbs, Mr. 5'8" is much bigger than his height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I would like to see tinordi get some minutes this year if he can handle it. The team is short on toughness this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I would like to see tinordi get some minutes this year if he can handle it. The team is short on toughness this year. Look for Finely to get some reps in Montreal. He basically rag dolled every guy he fought in the minors. Pretty much only thing he's got going for him, but Montreal is lacking a heavy weight and Tinordi isn't ready for that role yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Look for Finely to get some reps in Montreal. He basically rag dolled every guy he fought in the minors. Pretty much only thing he's got going for him, but Montreal is lacking a heavy weight and Tinordi isn't ready for that role yet. They only gave Finley a one way deal like Stortini years back. We don't need a heavyweight. We need space for Sekac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Look for Finely to get some reps in Montreal. He basically rag dolled every guy he fought in the minors. Pretty much only thing he's got going for him, but Montreal is lacking a heavy weight and Tinordi isn't ready for that role yet. Finley couldn't even crack an AHL lineup at times last year. If the Habs are using him (of which they'd have to sign him first, he's on an AHL-only deal), they're in serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Finley couldn't even crack an AHL lineup at times last year. If the Habs are using him (of which they'd have to sign him first, he's on an AHL-only deal), they're in serious trouble. I could see him signing a two way deal strictly based on his size. He's young enough to keep around for sizeable depth on D in Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I could see him signing a two way deal strictly based on his size. He's young enough to keep around for sizeable depth on D in Hamilton. If they wanted him on a two-way deal, he'd have one by now; an NHL two-way deal would have been more appealing for Finley and the Habs aren't near the contract limit. As things stand, they don't deem him worthy of an NHL look. Personally, I'm hoping he's not used as a defenceman at all with the Bulldogs. He's a four minute a game goon that isn't particularly good defensively, here's hoping Hamilton doesn't repeat the mistake of having their enforcer play 16 minutes a night yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 If they wanted him on a two-way deal, he'd have one by now; an NHL two-way deal would have been more appealing for Finley and the Habs aren't near the contract limit. As things stand, they don't deem him worthy of an NHL look. Personally, I'm hoping he's not used as a defenceman at all with the Bulldogs. He's a four minute a game goon that isn't particularly good defensively, here's hoping Hamilton doesn't repeat the mistake of having their enforcer play 16 minutes a night yet again. Oh there's no doubting he's awful, I just figured with his size he'd at least get a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Oh there's no doubting he's awful, I just figured with his size he'd at least get a look. Oh he'll get a look but not in Montreal. we tried the good thing a few times. We need hockey players who are tough. Not big dummies who can play 45 secs at a time and then gone for game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 No one is arguing that he is a top-4 defender. We're talking about a veteran depth defenceman. It's a no brainer, really, but people are terrified that The Genius is a fundamentally irrational fool and arguing that we should be making managerial decisions on that basis of that. I don't want him as the number 7 Why.... Here are our games played by bottom pairing guys. Games played by Habs D last year (guys on the third pairing). Bouillon - 52 Murray - 54 Weaver and Diaz (combined 17 and 46) - 63 Tinordi and Beaulieu (combined 22 and 17) - 39 I combined Weaver and Diaz because a few weeks after Diaz was shipped out, WEaver came in (they were never on the team together). I combined Tinordi and Beaulieu because they seemed to swap places in callups and demotions (although there were times both were demoted). So given this.... the #7 Dman can still play over 50 games next year (with injuries above him in the lineup, and rotating healthy scratches)... its time for Tinordi and Beaulieu to play. Let them be the 6/7 and play over 50 games each. If Bou is on the team, even if Therrien uses him in the role he's supposed to be used in #7, he still stands to be in the way of one of the kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A lot of those extra games came from injuries though. Emelin missed the first 19 games recovering from his knee surgery, that won't be the case this year. Gorges missed 15 games with a broken hand. Bouillon also saw time over Diaz and it's safe to say the coaching staff has a lot more confidence in Weaver (his eventual replacement) so Weaver won't be getting benched in favour of Bouillon like Diaz was. It's far from a guarantee that if Bouillon is to sign that he'll get 50+ games again this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 There's a misconception that youth is developed by putting them into the lineup before they are the best choice available on your roster. This is not the case. Youth is developed because they make themselves the best choice available on the roster, play their way onto the team, and make the spot their own. Both Tinordi and Beaulieu failed to do that last year. This was not the fault of le genius, or Bergevin. This is the fault of Tinordi and Beaulieu for not being good enough. Last year, players like Weaver, Diaz, Bouillon, and even Doug Murray were simply better than those kids for most of the year. There is also a misconception that management should avoid having depth defensemen so that Tinordi and Beaulieu become the best choices available because we did them a favor and got rid of the players in their way. This is also not the case. We should ice the best team we can put together at any given time. Player development is something that happens naturally if your prospects are doing their job and making themselves ready. I'd love to see Tinordi and Beaulieu become legitimate NHL defensemen. This is not the responsibility of MT or MB. This is the responsibility of Tinordi and Beaulieu. They've been given every chance to do so, and so far, have not taken advantage of those opportunities. Hopefully this is the year they do it. In the meantime, MB and MT have a responsibility to ensure we have competent players to go to if Tinordi and Beaulieu choose not to elevate their games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 There's a misconception that youth is developed by putting them into the lineup before they are the best choice available on your roster. This is not the case. Youth is developed because they make themselves the best choice available on the roster, play their way onto the team, and make the spot their own. Both Tinordi and Beaulieu failed to do that last year. This was not the fault of le genius, or Bergevin. This is the fault of Tinordi and Beaulieu for not being good enough. Last year, players like Weaver, Diaz, Bouillon, and even Doug Murray were simply better than those kids for most of the year. There is also a misconception that management should avoid having depth defensemen so that Tinordi and Beaulieu become the best choices available because we did them a favor and got rid of the players in their way. This is also not the case. We should ice the best team we can put together at any given time. Player development is something that happens naturally if your prospects are doing their job and making themselves ready. I'd love to see Tinordi and Beaulieu become legitimate NHL defensemen. This is not the responsibility of MT or MB. This is the responsibility of Tinordi and Beaulieu. They've been given every chance to do so, and so far, have not taken advantage of those opportunities. Hopefully this is the year they do it. In the meantime, MB and MT have a responsibility to ensure we have competent players to go to if Tinordi and Beaulieu choose not to elevate their games. What a great post. I couldn't agree more - except with the highlighted bit, which seems like an overstatement. I do think MT in particular has a 'responsibility' to help young players become better hockey players, in the sense of communicating effectively with them about how to improve, providing tangible and dedicated guidance, etc.. That's a coach's job. But I am 100% behind your general argument that it is NOT the job of a coach or a GM to hand ice time to inferior hockey players; and that it is ultimately the job of the young players to outperform marginal veterans. This is the fundamental root of the disagreement over signing Bouillon. Again, we can't have it both ways. Either you want a meritocracy - players earn their ice by superior performance - or you don't. If you do, and you believe in the kids, then why are you afraid of Bouillon? He then becomes an upgrade on Drewiske as 8th defenceman. Similarly, either Beaulieu and Tinordi are NHL-ready, in which case they will surely outplay Bouillon, or they aren't, in which case we should definitely sign Bouillon or a comparable veteran. All that remains is paranoia that The Genius is incompetent, and that he will relentlessly play Bouillon even if the kids give better performance. This may or may not be a valid assessment of Therrien, but it's a damned lousy basis for managerial decisions about player signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'd rather have Komisarek than Bouillon as our #7. Moar big!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What a great post. I couldn't agree more - except with the highlighted bit, which seems like an overstatement. I do think MT in particular has a 'responsibility' to help young players become better hockey players, in the sense of communicating effectively with them about how to improve, providing tangible and dedicated guidance, etc.. That's a coach's job. But I am 100% behind your general argument that it is NOT the job of a coach or a GM to hand ice time to inferior hockey players; and that it is ultimately the job of the young players to outperform marginal veterans. This is the fundamental root of the disagreement over signing Bouillon. Again, we can't have it both ways. Either you want a meritocracy - players earn their ice by superior performance - or you don't. If you do, and you believe in the kids, then why are you afraid of Bouillon? He then becomes an upgrade on Drewiske as 8th defenceman. Similarly, either Beaulieu and Tinordi are NHL-ready, in which case they will surely outplay Bouillon, or they aren't, in which case we should definitely sign Bouillon or a comparable veteran. All that remains is paranoia that The Genius is incompetent, and that he will relentlessly play Bouillon even if the kids give better performance. This may or may not be a valid assessment of Therrien, but it's a damned lousy basis for managerial decisions about player signings. I agree with both posts but I will add one little caveat, it is the job of Lefebrve to make sure that these guys have all the opportunity, training, and help that they need to succeed. The question being, is he doing his job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 But does anybody here honestly think that Tinordi and Beaulieu are worse than Murray or Bouillon? I think there's some confirmation bias in play, where especially Tinordi makes one mistake and all of a sudden he's not ready. I remember the Pittsburgh game during the lockout year when he was burned by Crosby and that was that. As if nobody looks foolish defending the best player of his generation. Murray in particular stank like garbage. He was handed the easiest assignments and was terrible. That play against Boston where Matt Fraser scored in overtime was, without exaggeration, the worst defensive play I've ever seen in my life. Moreover, can we really say that they got a reasonable chance? Aside from Tinordi in the beginning of the year, they rarely played. I think at least playing ten games in a row is a reasonable tryout. The issue for me isn't the kids out playing Bouillon, but that there's an equal playing field. Bouillon is Therrien's baby. He will live and die with Frankie B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 The fear is fair when Nathan Beaulieu lost a spot he rightfully earned just because he didn't play great when the regular season was on hold. He didn't lose it in the NHL due to poor play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 that's the problem..the rookies are held accountable for their mistakes while the vets, not so much. leave em in there and let them develope. hell, it's not as if they're east coast leaguers trying to steal nhl spots ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 A lot of those extra games came from injuries though. Emelin missed the first 19 games recovering from his knee surgery, that won't be the case this year. Gorges missed 15 games with a broken hand. Bouillon also saw time over Diaz and it's safe to say the coaching staff has a lot more confidence in Weaver (his eventual replacement) so Weaver won't be getting benched in favour of Bouillon like Diaz was. It's far from a guarantee that if Bouillon is to sign that he'll get 50+ games again this season. There are always injuries. I can bet you right now (and I'm pretty confident in this bet). The combined total of games played by Defencemen not included in the Habs starting 6 in game 1 of the regular season will be over 50 next season. All 6 staying healthy and out of the coaches' doghouse for 82 games? It just doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What a great post. I couldn't agree more - except with the highlighted bit, which seems like an overstatement. I do think MT in particular has a 'responsibility' to help young players become better hockey players, in the sense of communicating effectively with them about how to improve, providing tangible and dedicated guidance, etc.. That's a coach's job. But I am 100% behind your general argument that it is NOT the job of a coach or a GM to hand ice time to inferior hockey players; and that it is ultimately the job of the young players to outperform marginal veterans. This is the fundamental root of the disagreement over signing Bouillon. Again, we can't have it both ways. Either you want a meritocracy - players earn their ice by superior performance - or you don't. If you do, and you believe in the kids, then why are you afraid of Bouillon? He then becomes an upgrade on Drewiske as 8th defenceman. Similarly, either Beaulieu and Tinordi are NHL-ready, in which case they will surely outplay Bouillon, or they aren't, in which case we should definitely sign Bouillon or a comparable veteran. All that remains is paranoia that The Genius is incompetent, and that he will relentlessly play Bouillon even if the kids give better performance. This may or may not be a valid assessment of Therrien, but it's a damned lousy basis for managerial decisions about player signings. The problem becomes if they keep 7 and not 8 defencemen. When it comes time to make the choice... is Bouillion 7th or 8th, do they send a vet back to the minors who has a guaranteed contract or the kid on a two-way deal who doesn't need waivers to go down. I'm fine with competition. Beaulieu, Tinordi and Pateryn can compete for the 1 spot available in the starting lineup and 1 in the pressbox. We have competition. It doesn't need to be giving a guaranteed deal to Bouillion who because he is a veteran who has served the team for many years... and because his contract situation vs others.... its not likely he is jettisoned to Hamilton even if he is the 8th D by merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Tinordi was pushed around by Gerbe and smaller NHLers, Murray ran over Chara and Lucic. and was one of strongest NHLers while Tinordi isn't.. Beaulieu was a bit lost out there and that was vs bottom six of other team, Bouillon could be trusted and was better 2 way d-man than Nate the Great. (and his not being called up after X-mas was linked to 'Nate the Great' mentality and lazy play in Hamilton) Vets didn't receive press box treatment? Bouillon/Murray sat forever, Bourque/Briere both were scratched and had icetime cut and White and Moan sat all playoffs and Budaj was not reated with kid gloves was he. So, I think safe to call BS on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Murray hit chara and lucic, knocked them down, but after he was done the Bruins still had the puck and still got a scoring chance. What good is knocking someone over if your team doesn't get the puck as a result of the hit and the other team still gets a scoring chance? Its does no good whatsoever. Murray was the absolute worst player in the NHL to average more than 10:00 on the ice per game. The absolute worst.... bar none. Beaulieu and Tinordi were both better than Murray last year and should have been playing ahead of him. Especially Beaulieu. Absolutely no question in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Gerbe and smaller nhlers?! talk about BS! the next time i'll respond to you, don, will be to say "I told you so" so, enjoy the rest of your summer dude Murray hit chara and lucic, knocked them down, but after he was done the Bruins still had the puck and still got a scoring chance. What good is knocking someone over if your team doesn't get the puck as a result of the hit and the other team still gets a scoring chance? Its does no good whatsoever. Murray was the absolute worst player in the NHL to average more than 10:00 on the ice per game. The absolute worst.... bar none. Beaulieu and Tinordi were both better than Murray last year and should have been playing ahead of him. Especially Beaulieu. Absolutely no question in my mind. agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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