GDT May 25, Montreal vs New York, 8 PM

[PMAC]

I agree, next year Galchenyuk definitely needs to have his role increased with the team. I also hope we shy away from bringing in stopgap type players like Murray and Bouillon. We either need to start playing our younger players or trade for actual upgrades to our roster.

Also I don’t expect Vanek back but we still do need a top 6 forward. Ideal to me would be a young player that can be part of the core alongside Pacioretty, Gallagher, Subban, Galchenyuk, and Price.

As I see it, the stop-gaps were part of the plan given the appalling lack of organizational depth when MB took over. The plan has unfolded as it should and NB and JT will be replacing Cube and Murray next season. I would like to see Weaver stay as 6/7th D on a Cube like deal.

Unless he really is injured---and if he is, at this point it is time to sit him out--- I don't want Vanek back on the kind of contract he is going to demand. Who needs an 7mil + scorer who disappears in the playoffs?! if he is injured I might partially excuse his performance, but given his age, I wil be disappointed and angry if we commit major dollars and major term to TV

Much as it pains me to say, I can see Eller stepping into Plex's role and Plex being dealt as part of a package for the elusive young scoring winger.

On the bright side, minus our # 1 goalie and with our top forwards in a ridiculous scoring drought we are still giving the Rags all they can handle.

On to Game 5 where I expect and win and then a win in NY with the comeback sealed in the quiet confines of le Centre Bell.

[Guest Stogey24]

They have to make a choice between Plekanec and Eller next year. Galchenyuk needs to make the jump next year. This team is in the ECF, and with Price in, they're in the finals. Ditch Briere, Gio and Plex, get a good winger for Galchenyuk, and "be the future!"

Yup, I agree. It's pretty funny how the only guy on the team who breaks through the offensive zone stick handling the puck is Galchenyuk, but yet he's placed with two players who are more along the lines of being a shutdown line. Its time to get some size up the middle, Plek is the first guy I'm packaging in a trade, keep Eller and try and sign a higher end centre. That's something Montreal hasn't had in a long time. Then You can run a quality second line behind Pac and DD. I could see a guy like Statsny making his way to MTL.

[DON]

Good game.

Vanek-Pacioretty-DD all had 7 minutes on the PP and that line managed a total of 3 shots for whole game.

Gionta-Galchenyuk-Plekanec much more dangerous line.

Would of been so nice to see AG get back to back GWGs, but got to give NY penalty kill kudos.

Too bad Tokarski got hung out to dry on the last one.

Now can bring out all the clichés..gut-check time, do or die,,,,,,

Go Habs Go!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

that's bcoz of their D is too slow. Emelin, Gorges, Bouillon, Markov and Weaver don't have any speed. Weaver has really been exposed in this series. Bouillon and him were hemmed in their own end far too long and both are horrible at clearing the zone. Markov also is not making the simple play to move to clear the puck either.

They really need another guy like Subban - who they have in Beaulieu that can help the transition. The rangers aren't any faster then the habs, but their D is much better in moving the puck forward.

Spot on. The book on the Habs has long been that the D is vulnerable to an aggressive forecheck; the Bruins and Rags both demonstrated that pretty compellingly. It doesn't help when even your superstar (Subban) is prone to occasionally overthinking the play in his own end, although PK is the furthest thing from a problem. Like I've been saying all year (not that anyone disagrees!) this team needs another top-4 defenceman. We're putting Emelin on the PP, for crying out loud. I think we have to assume Beaulieu can be that added guy - but he must get a regular shift next season, obviously. If, by next playoff, he is slotting in as the #4 guy, we will have addressed this weakness from within.

Everyone is dumping on Markov for his clumsy OT bungle, but I've been unhappy about him for most of this series, less for his defensive game than for his inability to be a threat on the power play. THE reason we are down 1-3 is because of our impotent power-play, and THE reason for our impotent power-play is that there is nobody other than #76 that the Rags worry about. I'm tired of seeing Markov's point shot miss the damned net. I'm sure MB will re-sign him, but I hope it's not to an inflated contract.

Notwithstanding last night's disappearing act from Patches and Vanek, the team impressed me with gutsy games in New York. They almost made a series of it. But I keep coming back to Game One. You throw a game away in the playoffs, man, you've lost all margin of manoeuvre - and they've paid for that.

[habs rule]

These guys have got stop hanging Tokarski out to dry. How many 1 on 1 encounters do you think he is going to win? He is a very good ahl (almost nhl ) caliber goaltender and you leave M st Louise in front of him all alone? What the heck did you think was going to happen? The defence other than Subban played like crap. They are slow, but last night they also looked stupid. Patches should be ashamed of himself for last nights performance. What was it that Pleks said? That he played a like a little girl? Well that was patches last night. For what what Vanek has done we could get an ECHL forward at minimum salary.

Well MT enough of the forking gamesmanship, do your job, put the lines together that give us the best chance at scoring some goals, no time for lessons now. Training camp will be the next stop. You take your best players you put them with players that they can play with. Enough experimenting and forking around. This is do or golf.

[DON]

These guys have got stop hanging Tokarski out to dry. How many 1 on 1 encounters do you think he is going to win? He is a very good ahl (almost nhl ) caliber goaltender and you leave M st Louise in front of him all alone? What the heck did you think was going to happen? The defence other than Subban played like crap. They are slow, but last night they also looked stupid. Patches should be ashamed of himself for last nights performance. What was it that Pleks said? That he played a like a little girl? Well that was patches last night. For what what Vanek has done we could get an ECHL forward at minimum salary.

Well MT enough of the forking gamesmanship, do your job, put the lines together that give us the best chance at scoring some goals, no time for lessons now. Training camp will be the next stop. You take your best players you put them with players that they can play with. Enough experimenting and forking around. This is do or golf.

Well, putting your top 2 scorers and set-up man on the PP seems logical and most coaches would do same; however, if they fail to even get a shot, what more can you do?

Hopefully, Galchenyuk will get more PP time.

I would say other than Subban/Markov/Emelin, the defense played well.

Not sure what you mean by forking around, other than all top players on PP suckin, the teams played darn even game.

Was just one boucne from winnning.

[habs rule]

Well, putting your top 2 scorers and set-up man on the PP seems logical and most coaches would do same; however, if they fail to even get a shot, what more can you do?

Hopefully, Galchenyuk will get more PP time.

I would say other than Subban/Markov/Emelin, the defense played well.

Not sure what you mean by forking around, other than all top players on PP suckin, the teams played darn even game.

Was just one boucne from winnning.

Sounds very defeatist Don. Are you insinuating that there is nothing we can do? The forking rags got 3 goals last night and they were all clear wide open no defenceman in the picture clean shots at the goalie. Plex on the PP? guy cant find the net on on a clear breakaway. What I am saying is we need our best players to be our best players. That means Vanek Patches DD Gallagher Galchenyuk and Borque ( i know hard to believe) are your PP guys. Briere and Gionta if someone is tired. Everybody else can stay on the bench. Markov and Subban on defence. Relieved by emelin (ugg) and weaver or bouillion (double ugg) only if they are tired or next to dead. We have 3 defenceman who scored PP goals all year guess who they are, and emelin only got 1. This is the time to dance with the one that brung ya. All 3 goals last nite were the defence's fault, they weren't there. So I wouldn't be crowing too much about how good they played. If it weren't for Tokarski, this would have been ugly.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The team got better as the game went on. Overlooked in all this is that we really took it to the Rags in OT. One defensive zone breakdown and all of that was out the window.

The old saw is "your best players have to be your best players." With Vanek, Patches, and Markov all MIA - and Price of course having been deliberately removed from the series - we're left with Galchenyuk to be the offensive driver. The kid is great, but come on.

[hab29RETIRED]

It doesn't help when your 2nd best forward (after galleghar, who has by fat been the most consistent gorward), is saddled with pleks and gionta.

I say put the EGG line back together and reunite vanek with DD and Maxpac, or play vanek with Eller and Galchenyuk. Give them a go on tho PP from hell - they can't possibly do worse!!!!

The team got better as the game went on. Overlooked in all this is that we really took it to the Rags in OT. One defensive zone breakdown and all of that was out the window.

The old saw is "your best players have to be your best players." With Vanek, Patches, and Markov all MIA - and Price of course having been deliberately removed from the series - we're left with Galchenyuk to be the offensive driver. The kid is great, but come on.

[DON]

Sounds very defeatist Don. Are you insinuating that there is nothing we can do? The forking rags got 3 goals last night and they were all clear wide open no defenceman in the picture clean shots at the goalie. Plex on the PP? guy cant find the net on on a clear breakaway. What I am saying is we need our best players to be our best players. That means Vanek Patches DD Gallagher Galchenyuk and Borque ( i know hard to believe) are your PP guys. Briere and Gionta if someone is tired. Everybody else can stay on the bench. Markov and Subban on defence. Relieved by emelin (ugg) and weaver or bouillion (double ugg) only if they are tired or next to dead. We have 3 defenceman who scored PP goals all year guess who they are, and emelin only got 1. This is the time to dance with the one that brung ya. All 3 goals last nite were the defence's fault, they weren't there. So I wouldn't be crowing too much about how good they played. If it weren't for Tokarski, this would have been ugly.

Sorry no not defeatist, just got to give top players opportunity to lead and they flopped.

Vanek-Pacioretty-DD-79-76 had majority of PP time and sucked.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta-Eller-Gallagher-Briere-Weise should be leaned on for more PP offense. But, I am not big on prescribing who plays with who.

Yes, but all 3 goals were primarily 74-79-76s' fault, so why would you say Weaver-Gorges-Bouillon played poorly then? Don't get that?

Tokarski only had 29 shots and didn't need to stand on head and disagree he kept it from 'being ugly' and I say major failing was easyone- 1-8 on the PP. And a PP to start OT was wasted, had nothing to do with 3/4 of team & Tokarski who played just fine.

GHG!

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Invariably, this is what a team looks like on the Eve of Elimination. We can go through lists of names and circumstances, but unless you're Columbus, all heart but over matched in skill, this is what all the eliminated teams look like.

Ana-Perry MIA. Koivu and Selanne too old, Gibson too young.

Bos-Lucic, Marchard, Krejci mia, defense too young.

Pitt-Crosby, Letang, Neal mia. Fleury stinks, Bylsma "lost the room."

STL-Miller choked, Backes hurt. Hitchcock too defensive.

Red Wings-Franzen mia. Kids over matched.

San Jose-Thornton Marleau nuff said.

[BCHabnut]

I think a big part of the teams trouble is the loss of Price's stickhandling ability. He really helps with transition. Patience and tape to tape passes and the puck is out. I believe this is a part of why the defense look so exposed.

[habs rule]

Sorry no not defeatist, just got to give top players opportunity to lead and they flopped.

Vanek-Pacioretty-DD-79-76 had majority of PP time and sucked.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta-Eller-Gallagher-Briere-Weise should be leaned on for more PP offense. But, I am not big on prescribing who plays with who.

Yes, but all 3 goals were primarily 74-79-76s' fault, so why would you say Weaver-Gorges-Bouillon played poorly then? Don't get that?

Tokarski only had 29 shots and didn't need to stand on head and disagree he kept it from 'being ugly' and I say major failing was easyone- 1-8 on the PP. And a PP to start OT was wasted, had nothing to do with 3/4 of team & Tokarski who played just fine.

GHG!

I think the telling stat is this the 5 worst +- in the playoffs is Pleks -7 Emelin/Markov -4 Vanek -3 Patches Subban -2 These are arguably the best of this team. So you are right Emelin/Markov/Subban need to do better. I am not a great proponent of the (+-) stat but when your best defensive player and the shut down guy is minus 7 It can't be good. MT's job is to get these guys to lead the team to victory. So I say lets go back to what worked all year, Put your best lines out there, turn them loose go balls to the wal and let the chips fall where they may. MT hasn't been a complete fork up in the playoffs but he needs to earn his money now. Yes we could have won the last game, it was close. But You cannot leave Tokarski to fend for himself. Can you find a Hab in any of the replays of the goals? I don't think so. That is unacceptable. Markov needs to give his head a real good shake cause he played like an AHL defenceman. Where is Tinordi anyways? Anyways this is alll just a big rant because we lost, if we had won it would be a totally different slant. I am pissed off and I ain't gonna take it anymore.

[JoeLassister]

Sorry no not defeatist, just got to give top players opportunity to lead and they flopped.

Vanek-Pacioretty-DD-79-76 had majority of PP time and sucked.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta-Eller-Gallagher-Briere-Weise should be leaned on for more PP offense. But, I am not big on prescribing who plays with who.

Yes, but all 3 goals were primarily 74-79-76s' fault, so why would you say Weaver-Gorges-Bouillon played poorly then? Don't get that?

Tokarski only had 29 shots and didn't need to stand on head and disagree he kept it from 'being ugly' and I say major failing was easyone- 1-8 on the PP. And a PP to start OT was wasted, had nothing to do with 3/4 of team & Tokarski who played just fine.

GHG!

Weaver did play poorly. He clearly looked like a waiver pickup yesterday.

[DON]

Weaver did play poorly. He clearly looked like a waiver pickup yesterday.

Which goal against was he responsible/partly responsible for? I dont recall any. But, you could be correct and I imbibed sufficient fermented beverages to say I may of overlooked some plays.

[JoeLassister]

Which goal against was he responsible/partly responsible for? I dont recall any. But, you could be correct and I imbibed sufficient fermented beverages to say I may of overlooked some plays.

Not on any goal, but in general. I remember telling to my friend that he was playing like a waiver pick up during the game at some point.

[Toronthab]

Hmmmm... I'm not surprised that our shutdown guy is -7. He's up against the toughest offence time after time. Only a 7 goal difference after all this time? Cool.

When Cherry was talking after the blowout in game one, he wasn't knocking the Habs. He related it to a series where he coached the Bruins in a brutal battle that they barely won.. spent it all.. and had nothing left in the tank for the next series.

I think this is pretty plausible. I'm a little surprised at how smoothly NY has been able to play , their dominance. We don't look like the team that played TB.

I have no idea what is going on by the way.. just speculating... but I do see the boys working their butts off with very few exceptions, and I don't know what's going to happen henceforth.. I kinda expect us to win tomorrow... but I'm not really down on the team at all.

Lots of heroism out there . Lots of sacrifice and struggle. Noble effort.

Go Habs Go!!

[Lovett's Magnatones]

For me, it's easy to see how NYR keeps winning. L-u-ndqvist. They put up three goals, two games out of three they win. Some games they can even win with two or one goals. That's what an elite goaltender means in the playoffs. We had one the first two series, without one, it's a very different scenario. Overtime losses, bad bounces hard fought games decided by inches. Without elite goal tending, it's a crap shoot. Look at Pittsburgh.

[dlbalr]

A couple of things...

1) J.T. Miller won't play tomorrow after getting hurt in Game 4. Derek Stepan, however, is on the trip. If he can't go, either Jesper Fast or Oscar Lindberg will play.

2) Who has tomorrow's GDT? It's the biggest game of the year so it should be up early.

[hab29RETIRED]

Sorry no not defeatist, just got to give top players opportunity to lead and they flopped.

Vanek-Pacioretty-DD-79-76 had majority of PP time and sucked.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Gionta-Eller-Gallagher-Briere-Weise should be leaned on for more PP offense. But, I am not big on prescribing who plays with who.

Yes, but all 3 goals were primarily 74-79-76s' fault, so why would you say Weaver-Gorges-Bouillon played poorly then? Don't get that?

Tokarski only had 29 shots and didn't need to stand on head and disagree he kept it from 'being ugly' and I say major failing was easyone- 1-8 on the PP. And a PP to start OT was wasted, had nothing to do with 3/4 of team & Tokarski who played just fine.

GHG!

the fact that the three goals were scored against the habs best dman is because they played against the Rags best players.

That doesn't mean Weaver or Bouillon played well. they were stuck in their zone against the rags bottom lines. Outside the Bouillon goal, where the habs actually executed well on an odd man rush, my blood pressure rose every time they puck was in the habs zone. Earlier in the playoffs, the lack of skill/speed of the opposition and Price's ability to breakup the shoot in helped the transition. Against a much faster, aggressive team, the slowness of the D and the loss of Price's support to the transition has hemmed the habs in their own zone and the D has looked like the keystone cops.

The team really needs to mix up their D pairings. Emelin and Markov are both to slow to be paired together. This is where it would help to throw a guy like Beaulieu in with Markov to help the transition. I also think pairing Subban with Emelin, may be away to take Subban's perceived need to be physical away if his partner can play that role.

Weaver did play poorly. He clearly looked like a waiver pickup yesterday.

he's looked like a waiver pickup in the entire series against the rangers.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

That's a good point there. Why are MT and the gang so sold on Emelin-Markov? Next year, i'd like to see:

Tinordi-Subban

Markov-Gorges

Beaulieu-Emelin

Weaver

Not the best to see Tinordi get 20 minutes a night, but that scheme minimizes the weaknesses in speed on the second pairing that gets roasted every game.

[hab29RETIRED]

The play of Gionta and Pleks against the rangers is exactly why I was saying that they should move them. I've ALWAYS been a Pleks supporter (even during the playing like a little girl playoffs), but I think it's time to move him.

With all the hate Vanek is getting, he has 5 goals. He still has more than Pleks and Gionta combined. I get that Vanek's compete level hasn't been there, but he is an offensive player. The habs got him to score. MT's use of him isn't any better than the way the Penguins use of Iginla last year in the playoffs.

There are three better options to try and get Vanek going than the way he has been deployed. All three of the following options would be good options for th next game (much better than MT's current approach):

1) Reunite Vanek with MaxPac and DD, and put the EGG line back together

2) Vanek-Eller-Galchenyuk , keep the DD line intact.

3) Vanek-Briere-Galhenyuk keep the DD line intact

Someone here mentioned that Vanek was playing with DD-MaxPac on the PP and he didn't play any better. Vanek is a one of the rare offensive players whose even strength numbers are better than his PP output, so just throwing him with the DD line on the PP, isn't likely to get him going.

All three of these options get our offensive guys with other skilled guys. Keep Bournival or Weisse with Pleks-Gionta.

They can still come back in this series, but they really need to adjust both the forward lines and Defensive pairings, to help the transition game.

That's a good point there. Why are MT and the gang so sold on Emelin-Markov? Next year, i'd like to see:

Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Gorges
Beaulieu-Emelin
Weaver

Not the best to see Tinordi get 20 minutes a night, but that scheme minimizes the weaknesses in speed on the second pairing that gets roasted every game.

Because they are both russians, so they must only be able to play well with each other

[habs rule]

The other point about using Vanek with Patches and DD on the powerplay is if it were successfull then you can't play them together on the 5 on 5 cause you want to spread out the offence . It is a self fullfilling prophecy and doomed to failure. I am actually a fan of using regular lines on the powerplay. Put Vanek with patches and dd all the time. That way they are much more familiar with each others moves. Put the egg line back together. Put weisse with gionta and Bourque. do what you want with the rest. Put subban with Markov. put emelin with boullion, put weaver with Gorges. Play subban /markov 30 minutes a game. What the hell might work.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

iv'e said it once, ill say it a million times. MT NEEDS to put a left handed shot on the right point with markov (either emelin or bouillon or beaulieu). he NEEDS to move Subban to the left boards and keep patches and DD on the right interchanging on the right boards and down low.

1st unit

subban DD patch

markov (boullionbeaulieauemelin) in no particular order

this will create one timers all over the ice fed in large part from markov to subban or patches off the boards , beaulieau(bouillion) without having to flip sides on the point . Also adds a cross ice feed for the one timer down low from patches and subban to each other or on rotation of the players while cycling.

this Left and left def combo i believe is key as all the NYR players are doing is taking away the points and we haven't adjusted.

markov is our QB and he can't pass the puck efficiently if he's always having to rotate position to give PK his shot. PK's sublime stick handling can only make him that much more effective dangling on the side boards while not taking away his slapper, as well as giving him one on ones in a safer spot on the ice.

if MT makes this change the sky is the limit for this PP

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

I've seen our PP blossom over the years with Markov feeding lefties on the right streit, souray schneids etc. etc. now subban has a great shot and if you notice he is always stopping the puck before shooting because the natural one timer isn't there unless he and marky switch making pk's shot more effective but taking away marky's ability to distribute. i can't stress this out enough.