KoRP Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The problem with that is the great disparity in ice time between the Pleks line and every other line... I don't want Semin playing 4 minutes a game more than Gallagher. That's not gonna happen...ever! Mitchell is moving on to the Eller/Chucky line as RW, might be a good gamble with Mitchell's speed and physical play, assuming Flynn can center the 4th line ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Its crazy... no one can attack Therrien on his record anymore, on his system anymore, so now its all about the fact that he failed to get the $1.1 million gamble to work. Somehow the fact that Semin sucks has become the coaches fault and another reason to sarcastically throw around "The Genius". Multiple coaches in Washington and Carolina failed with Semin... maybe its not a Therrien problem... maybe, just maybe, its a Semin problem. The guy might actually be uncoachable. I'll attack Therrien on giving up on a player with over 500 career points in favour of playing Brian ing Flynn. If Semin doesn't work out on this team, that's fine. But we better find that out at the half-season mark, not at the not-even-the-quarter-season mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I can't see us in the cup finals if we are dressing Flynn, Mitchell, Weisse and Byron in the same game. I'll attack Therrien on giving up on a player with over 500 career points in favour of playing Brian ######ing Flynn. If Semin doesn't work out on this team, that's fine. But we better find that out at the half-season mark, not at the not-even-the-quarter-season mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'll attack Therrien on giving up on a player with over 500 career points in favour of playing Brian ######ing Flynn. If Semin doesn't work out on this team, that's fine. But we better find that out at the half-season mark, not at the not-even-the-quarter-season mark. To Quote Ray Ferraro: " I am struck by how much Semin has slowed down since his heyday in Washington. We all know he has a great shot, but he can't get into position to use it.....he's trying to slow down the play while his linemates are going by him at 100 miles per hour.... If Therrien played Semin with Shutt and Lemaire it wouldn't make any difference". Semin isn't producing. Mitchell is. Byron was dynamic in his limited opportunities. Both Byron and Mitchell do good things for the team on defense and on the penalty kill even if they don't score. Semin does not. It doesn't make sense for Therrien to wait for Semin to rediscover his scoring touch. Semin is a washed-up player who Carolina--the extremely budget conscious Hurricanes-- are paying 14 million not to play for them. it was good gamble (low risk, potential high reward) by Bergevin. It didn't work. That is not Therrien's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 To Quote Ray Ferraro: " I am struck by how much Semin has slowed down since his heyday in Washington. We all know he has a great shot, but he can't get into position to use it.....he's trying to slow down the play while his linemates are going by him at 100 miles per hour.... If Therrien played Semin with Shutt and Lemaire it wouldn't make any difference". Semin isn't producing. Mitchell is. Byron was dynamic in his limited opportunities. Both Byron and Mitchell do good things for the team on defense and on the penalty kill even if they don't score. Semin does not. It doesn't make sense for Therrien to wait for Semin to rediscover his scoring touch. Semin is a washed-up player who Carolina--the extremely budget conscious Hurricanes-- are paying 14 million not to play for them. it was good gamble (low risk, potential high reward) by Bergevin. It didn't work. That is not Therrien's fault. Well said, except for calling it a good gamble. We laughed when he was signed. You said it best, the money strapped extreme budget conscious Canes gave him 14 mill NOT to play. There was your clue NOT to gamble on Semin. There is no gamble. Only wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'll attack Therrien on giving up on a player with over 500 career points in favour of playing Brian ######ing Flynn. If Semin doesn't work out on this team, that's fine. But we better find that out at the half-season mark, not at the not-even-the-quarter-season mark. I agree. Flynn ain't answering this team's prayers. His career high is in the teens. As with basically every player besides Gallagher on the right wing. That's not a good thing.The right side has been this team's weak point for quite awhile now. Maybe it's time for Bergevin to stop going to yard sales For RW's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I agree. Flynn ain't answering this team's prayers. His career high is in the teens. As with basically every player besides Gallagher on the right wing. That's not a good thing. The right side has been this team's weak point for quite awhile now. Maybe it's time for Bergevin to stop going to yard sales For RW's ha! Yes signing Semin just brought even more attention to the the right wing dilemma. But now that he is signed , i would think he will get more games to try and improve his play. He has played all well, but his competition is nothing to write home about either. The cap might bring parity. But its a sad day when the mighty Montreal Canadiens cant ice a team with four decent right wingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 MB needs to fix the RW position, yes. Let's keep some perspective though. As it stands, this is the team's only weak point and it has not prevented us from being one of the league's top-scoring clubs. Most teams would kill for problems like that. Semin was a long shot from the start. I was skeptical but thought it worth taking, given that he cost us zero assets and was in no way a cap problem. If Flynn can actually keep up with his linemates, he might actually be a more useful overall asset on any given line than Semin. Players DO get washed up - it happens. Nothing here is really worth getting super agitated about. A very minor gamble lost, big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 The Right Wing has also weakened league wide compared to 10 years ago. That's why Dale Weise was arguably a Top six RW last season because his points totals were in the Top 60. Most teams have trouble finding two top six capable right wingers today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The Right Wing has also weakened league wide compared to 10 years ago. That's why Dale Weise was arguably a Top six RW last season because his points totals were in the Top 60. Most teams have trouble finding two top six capable right wingers today. Of course, Weise could easily finish with 20+ goals this season. Does that make him a legitimate second line RW? The DD/Weise/Fleischman line is playing so well, even if we went and got Ovechkin (ha) I wouldn't break them up. (Ovie would slot in first with Galchenyuk and Eller. Then we'd see if Galchenyuk is ready to blossom as a center. Byron, Mitchell, Flynn and DSP can slug it out for line 4.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Of course, Weise could easily finish with 20+ goals this season. Does that make him a legitimate second line RW? If Weise keeps his numbers up, he's absolutely a legit top six. Last year he played games on every line. I'm just trying to give the context that last year, the 60th best scoring right winger only put up 28 points in 71 games (Lee Stempniak). There were only 75 right wingers that put up 20 points or more. Only 25 scored 20 goals or more. Only 43 scored 15 goals or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If Weise keeps his numbers up, he's absolutely a legit top six. Last year he played games on every line. Which means next year he's gonna make more money than this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 To Quote Ray Ferraro: " I am struck by how much Semin has slowed down since his heyday in Washington. We all know he has a great shot, but he can't get into position to use it.....he's trying to slow down the play while his linemates are going by him at 100 miles per hour.... If Therrien played Semin with Shutt and Lemaire it wouldn't make any difference". Semin isn't producing. Mitchell is. Byron was dynamic in his limited opportunities. Both Byron and Mitchell do good things for the team on defense and on the penalty kill even if they don't score. Semin does not. It doesn't make sense for Therrien to wait for Semin to rediscover his scoring touch. Semin is a washed-up player who Carolina--the extremely budget conscious Hurricanes-- are paying 14 million not to play for them. it was good gamble (low risk, potential high reward) by Bergevin. It didn't work. That is not Therrien's fault. And to quote some guy named Patches, you know the Captain, "“I’ve said it before — he’s a professional for sure,” the captain added about Semin. “I genuinely believe he’s a big part of this group and the guys feel confident that hopefully he can be here for a long time and work out of this and be a big part of this team, because he’s got the skill to do it. And if we can get his confidence going, we feel that he can be a big part of this group.” I like what he has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Semin has been given (on a per minute basis) The easiest zone starts on the entire team The easiest quality of opponents on the entire team Despite this He is 11th on the team in forwards in Quality scoring chances per minute playedHe is 1st on the team in forwards in shots from outside the quality scoring chance zone per minute played.He's shooting the puck like a ing madman, but from outside of anywhere that is considered dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I don't think we will ever get to see Semin get a fair and reasonable shake under MT, and that's fine... Same with Tinordi, no F'n way Gilbert is better than this guy in one full season, same as Byron and Flynn aren't "better" than Semin. I would just like Chucky to have a skilled or at least blazing fast guy on his wing.... Mitchell gonna keep up his scoring pace? Maybe score more? 4th line will miss him for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Semin has been given (on a per minute basis) The easiest zone starts on the entire team The easiest quality of opponents on the entire team Despite this He is 11th on the team in forwards in Quality scoring chances per minute played He is 1st on the team in forwards in shots from outside the quality scoring chance zone per minute played. He's shooting the puck like a ######ing madman, but from outside of anywhere that is considered dangerous. He's worth a million dollars. You act like he's this huge burden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He's worth a million dollars. You act like he's this huge burden. I don't think that's the intent. More like MT has protected him and put him in a position to succeed and the results have been terrible so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He's worth a million dollars. You act like he's this huge burden. The intent is to say the experiment should be over, clearly it has failed. He has been given every opportunity to succeed, and its not working. Yeah Berkshire and others will point out a great corsi (which is fine, I like advanced stats too) but digging deeper, hes basically only getting shooting attempts from bad areas only despite being given tons of advantages in terms of opponents and zone starts. Time to try someone else. Has nothing to do with the money... the money is miniscule and if he's waived 95% of it comes off the cap anyways. The issue is he's taking a spot where others could be tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The intent is to say the experiment should be over, clearly it has failed. He has been given every opportunity to succeed, and its not working. Yeah Berkshire and others will point out a great corsi (which is fine, I like advanced stats too) but digging deeper, hes basically only getting shooting attempts from bad areas only despite being given tons of advantages in terms of opponents and zone starts. Time to try someone else. Has nothing to do with the money... the money is miniscule and if he's waived 95% of it comes off the cap anyways. The issue is he's taking a spot where others could be tried. I tend to be with you on this, but - which others could be tried, exactly? Flynn?? That's the problem I keep coming back to. As bad as Semin may be, it's not like he is holding down any other plausible candidates for that job. Although Torey Mitchell *is* an interesting concept there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I tend to be with you on this, but - which others could be tried, exactly? Flynn?? That's the problem I keep coming back to. As bad as Semin may be, it's not like he is holding down any other plausible candidates for that job. Although Torey Mitchell *is* an interesting concept there. I'll have a post coming up on the site early tomorrow about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I don't think we will ever get to see Semin get a fair and reasonable shake under MT, and that's fine... Same with Tinordi, no F'n way Gilbert is better than this guy in one full season, same as Byron and Flynn aren't "better" than Semin. I would just like Chucky to have a skilled or at least blazing fast guy on his wing.... Mitchell gonna keep up his scoring pace? Maybe score more? 4th line will miss him for sure... Chucky has played with six wingers counting Eller. Plus he plays wing instead of center on the pp with DD and Fliesh. For a supposed top 6 forward he sure plays with a lot of bottom six players. But he just keeps on pluggin away. Playing well tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Chucky has played with six wingers counting Eller. Plus he plays wing instead of center on the pp with DD and Fliesh. For a supposed top 6 forward he sure plays with a lot of bottom six players. But he just keeps on pluggin away. Playing well tonight. Galchenyuk is playing his ass off. But he needs a passer scorer, and he ain't got either. That line looked great at the beginning with Semin. Never looked that good since. they were dangerous then, now not so much. We have no one else so why not Semin? Cause he got caught taking a bad penalty call by the ref? Ok fair enough but if we did that to every guy on the team who the heck would we play? Price can't score goals guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Galchenyuk is playing his ass off. But he needs a passer scorer, and he ain't got either. That line looked great at the beginning with Semin. Never looked that good since. they were dangerous then, now not so much. We have no one else so why not Semin? Cause he got caught taking a bad penalty call by the ref? Ok fair enough but if we did that to every guy on the team who the heck would we play? Price can't score goals guys. I think the line looked good because Eller played well at the start. Then, as is his wont, he tailed off. In short, I doubt Semin was an independent variable. You're right, though, that there are no obviously superior options for that slot - so I look forward to dlbalr's article on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think the line looked good because Eller played well at the start. Then, as is his wont, he tailed off. In short, I doubt Semin was an independent variable. You're right, though, that there are no obviously superior options for that slot - so I look forward to dlbalr's article on the subject. Yeah me too cause if he can find a winger for that line on this roster, he is a genius. I personally think that Chucky liked playing with Semin and vice versa, I don't think that chemistry is gone, but it needs a little time. 10 Games with 7 off in between is not enough. But that is just my opinion, and I defer to all of you who are more knowledgeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 An option I would try Bud Holloway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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