Trade Tinordi traded to Arizona

[habs rule]

I don't think this trade is getting the amount of discussion that it is because it was a bad trade (Tinordi is clearly a bust, it's a fair hockey trade when cap considerations are factored in)....we are all fixated on it because it wasn't the trade we have been hoping/praying for that will help this team score more goals. It's sort of a salt in the recent wounds thing; "we FINALLY hear about a trade, and it's this pathetic garbage for garbage deal?!" sort of thing.

Very good point.

[dlbalr]

I was responding to a comment that he was traded because he wasn't Franco, so please.......

That wasn't the part I highlighted. Yes, it's fair game to note that he's not French which has spared some of the local media from going over the top. Saying "there are Anglo comments like yours" is the iffy part. If you're referring to it as that Tinordi speaks English, that's okay but I would say largely irrelevant since almost every player in the league does. It can also be read as a comment on the poster specifically, which is how I interpreted it. If you didn't mean it that way, then I apologize.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There's no entitlement, but first round picks are resources that should be invested in. Sure, they have to make the team, but they ideally get more rope than 25 year old scrubs without ceilings like Pateryn or Barberio.

You don't know what you have with a defenseman until he's played 200 games. Tinordi hasn't even played 50. But hey! Four below average games of Barberio means this trade works.

OK, so first-round picks automatically get 200 NHL games before we decide whether they're any good. If that isn't "entitlement" what the hell is???

By this "logic" David Fisher would have gotten 200 games out of us.

No offence, but this has to be one of the craziest theories I've ever heard.

Tinordi played around 200 pro games (AHL and NHL), so if that's what you mean, there's nothing to critique the Habs for on this front. He got a long look, he sucked, he's gone. The end.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

OK, so first-round picks automatically get 200 NHL games before we decide whether they're any good. If that isn't "entitlement" what the hell is???

By this "logic" David Fisher would have gotten 200 games out of us.

No offence, but this has to be one of the craziest theories I've ever heard.

Tinordi played around 200 pro games (AHL and NHL), so if that's what you mean, there's nothing to critique the Habs for on this front. He got a long look, he sucked, he's gone. The end.

There's a lot of revisionist history. You all act like Tinordi was a terrible hockey player instead of a struggling 6/7.

Add MIke Weaver and Gonchar to the list of players no longer in the NHL that played more games with the Habs than Tinordi.

I do believe, looking back, that we would have preferred to play him through the lumps than give these guys ice time because they were perceived as being "safe" but were really players that Therrien preferred. This isn't just about this year. This is a three year period.

Mike Weaver

Sergei Gonchar

Raphael Diaz

DOUGLAS MURRAY (53 games in 2013-2014)

Francis Bouillon (biggest Therrien binky of all time)

Pateryn

Barberio

Keep in mind that these are just the guys playing in front of Tinordi. He was also competing with some serious losers like Bryan Allen, Yannick Weber, Davis Drewiske, Tomas Kaberle.

Basically Therrien played 5-8 guys who aren't NHLers over a first round pick.

The return was nothing short of illuminating. A Frankie B clone and a chance to humiliate John Scott. Another masterstroke for Bergevin. When's the next dumpster dive?

[dlbalr]

Keep in mind that these are just the guys playing in front of Tinordi. He was also competing with some serious losers like Bryan Allen, Yannick Weber, Davis Drewiske, Tomas Kaberle.

Those guys weren't going against Tinordi. Kaberle was out of the organization before Tinordi even turned pro. Weber's last year with Montreal was Tinordi's first pro season (where he shouldn't have played a whole lot anyways). Drewiske played nine games with the Habs in total in that same year (Tinordi's rookie campaign). Allen played all of five games with the team so it's not as if he was really holding Tinordi back from playing either.

[Guest Stogey24]

Those guys weren't going against Tinordi. Kaberle was out of the organization before Tinordi even turned pro. Weber's last year with Montreal was Tinordi's first pro season (where he shouldn't have played a whole lot anyways). Drewiske played nine games with the Habs in total in that same year (Tinordi's rookie campaign). Allen played all of five games with the team so it's not as if he was really holding Tinordi back from playing either.

Dlbalr, I'd personally say your one of the more knowledgeable and rational minds on here. IF your were running this team, would you have made the Tinordi trade?

[Commandant]

There's a lot of revisionist history. You all act like Tinordi was a terrible hockey player instead of a struggling 6/7.

Add MIke Weaver and Gonchar to the list of players no longer in the NHL that played more games with the Habs than Tinordi.

I do believe, looking back, that we would have preferred to play him through the lumps than give these guys ice time because they were perceived as being "safe" but were really players that Therrien preferred. This isn't just about this year. This is a three year period.

Mike Weaver

Sergei Gonchar

Raphael Diaz

DOUGLAS MURRAY (53 games in 2013-2014)

Francis Bouillon (biggest Therrien binky of all time)

Pateryn

Barberio

Keep in mind that these are just the guys playing in front of Tinordi. He was also competing with some serious losers like Bryan Allen, Yannick Weber, Davis Drewiske, Tomas Kaberle.

Basically Therrien played 5-8 guys who aren't NHLers over a first round pick.

The return was nothing short of illuminating. A Frankie B clone and a chance to humiliate John Scott. Another masterstroke for Bergevin. When's the next dumpster dive?

I'd say the fact that all these players were preferred to Tinordi, shows how much Tinordi sucked.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I'd say the fact that all these players were preferred to Tinordi, shows how much Tinordi sucked.

Wow, you think you're right about something?

Ever hear the expression "you can't learn anything with your mouth open?"

[BlueKross]

Dlbair- I like a shot at that question before you answer. I believe this trade was directed by the league killing two birds with one stone. It is clear, Montreal had no intention of Tinordi playing and only kept him as a trade chip. He should have been let go long ago and not kept him locked up in purgatory. It really defeats the spirit of waivers. Scot out of the all-star game is the other bird.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Wow, you think you're right about something?

Ever hear the expression "you can't learn anything with your mouth open?"

Commandant's inference was completely fair. Tinordi couldn't beat out ANY of the alternatives for a roster spot. That tells us something.

[hab29RETIRED]

Commandant's inference was completely fair. Tinordi couldn't beat out ANY of the alternatives for a roster spot. That tells us something.

totally disagree with that. No way that TInordi would have made any ore mistakes than a washed up Gonchar or friggin useless Murray. This is clearly MT wanting familiarity of someone he knew in Gonchar - despite how useless he had become and a veteran like Murray who was probably among the top 3 worst dman in the league.

Just the fact that we have Emelin making $4.2M and probably only played one decent friggin game all year shows that Tinordi never really got a fair shot.

[habs rule]

Wow, you think you're right about something?

Ever hear the expression "you can't learn anything with your mouth open?"

That is an unfair comment. Who did he beat out? Nobody. I will agree that Le Genius is not the best at developing talent. So the kid was a long shot at best.

[dlbalr]

Dlbalr, I'd personally say your one of the more knowledgeable and rational minds on here. IF your were running this team, would you have made the Tinordi trade?

It's a hard one to answer without all of the facts (such as what other options may have been out there). I would most likely have cut bait with him before this stretch and taken the mid-round pick I suggested he might have been worth back in the summer. Accordingly, it probably wouldn't have got to this particular point.

Tinordi needed a change of scenery. That much was pretty well evident, whether it be the lack of confidence from the coaches or the poor-to-mediocre performance he provided the last couple of years. Had the second half of the season gone like the first half, it would have set up for a very messy offseason. The Habs could have outright released him instead of qualifying him at just shy of $900,000. Had they not, it seems likely to me that there would have been a public trade demand and eventually they'd have had to cut bait for a comparably 'meh' return. Considering Barberio appears to have passed Tinordi on the depth chart, the odds of the second half mimicking the first (in that he wouldn't have played much, if at all) seem pretty high which leads me to reasonably conclude that he wasn't going to getting any more valuable by continuing to hold on to him.

So to answer the question, yes, I would have done this type of trade. I noted yesterday I'd have preferred Elliott but the logic is still the same for either player. I'd rather have the added depth than nothing which they'd have had if they waived him (and while Scott isn't really depth, Fournier was mediocre AHL-ECHL fodder so both are really inconsequential). Bartley (or Elliott, or any other comparable defender) is of greater value to the Habs than Tinordi since he can go to the minors without going through waivers (up until he fills one of the sides of his 10/30 clock) and has shown he can play a #6 role if a couple of players get hurt. Carrying a cheaper cap hit also helps a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of the trade (I don't hate it either though) but approaching it as if I were running the team and looking at it through an asset management perspective, I can appreciate why it was done and agree with the decision to basically get what they could for him because chances are, it wasn't going to be any better down the road. You can make a case that Tinordi should have played more in the past but 'coulda/woulda/shoulda' is all hypothetical and speculative and can't really factor into your question. Based on the situation as of yesterday, I think this is probably as good as they were going to get, either now, or in the offseason. With that logic in mind, it was the right type of move to make.

[Commandant]

Wow, you think you're right about something?

Ever hear the expression "you can't learn anything with your mouth open?"

Can't discuss the point, so you make a personal attack?

I thought you were better than that.

[Guest Stogey24]

It's a hard one to answer without all of the facts (such as what other options may have been out there). I would most likely have cut bait with him before this stretch and taken the mid-round pick I suggested he might have been worth back in the summer. Accordingly, it probably wouldn't have got to this particular point.

Tinordi needed a change of scenery. That much was pretty well evident, whether it be the lack of confidence from the coaches or the poor-to-mediocre performance he provided the last couple of years. Had the second half of the season gone like the first half, it would have set up for a very messy offseason. The Habs could have outright released him instead of qualifying him at just shy of $900,000. Had they not, it seems likely to me that there would have been a public trade demand and eventually they'd have had to cut bait for a comparably 'meh' return. Considering Barberio appears to have passed Tinordi on the depth chart, the odds of the second half mimicking the first (in that he wouldn't have played much, if at all) seem pretty high which leads me to reasonably conclude that he wasn't going to getting any more valuable by continuing to hold on to him.

So to answer the question, yes, I would have done this type of trade. I noted yesterday I'd have preferred Elliott but the logic is still the same for either player. I'd rather have the added depth than nothing which they'd have had if they waived him (and while Scott isn't really depth, Fournier was mediocre AHL-ECHL fodder so both are really inconsequential). Bartley (or Elliott, or any other comparable defender) is of greater value to the Habs than Tinordi since he can go to the minors without going through waivers (up until he fills one of the sides of his 10/30 clock) and has shown he can play a #6 role if a couple of players get hurt. Carrying a cheaper cap hit also helps a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of the trade (I don't hate it either though) but approaching it as if I were running the team and looking at it through an asset management perspective, I can appreciate why it was done and agree with the decision to basically get what they could for him because chances are, it wasn't going to be any better down the road. You can make a case that Tinordi should have played more in the past but 'coulda/woulda/shoulda' is all hypothetical and speculative and can't really factor into your question. Based on the situation as of yesterday, I think this is probably as good as they were going to get, either now, or in the offseason. With that logic in mind, it was the right type of move to make.

Well good post.

It's over now anyways. It is what it is.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Can't discuss the point, so you make a personal attack?

I thought you were better than that.

Correct response to an entirely facetious, and borderline tantrum throwing post.

You were the most vocal critic of Murray online outside of Andrew Berkshire, so to say that Tinordi was worse than him is ridiculous. I also spent the time to research all those players to add a viewpoint to the discussion instead of putting my thumb on my nose saying "nyuh-yuh-nu-nuh-nyuh, you don't agree with me so you're wrong."

[JGC21]

Bartley will wear #20. We all know what that means...

They should retire that number and write "revolving door" on the banner. Worst number in Canadiens history.

[Commandant]

Correct response to an entirely facetious, and borderline tantrum throwing post.

You were the most vocal critic of Murray online outside of Andrew Berkshire, so to say that Tinordi was worse than him is ridiculous. I also spent the time to research all those players to add a viewpoint to the discussion instead of putting my thumb on my nose saying "nyuh-yuh-nu-nuh-nyuh, you don't agree with me so you're wrong."

Thats fine... as long as the people i respect on here, like CC, don't see that post that way.... I'm fine with it.

But you just keep going on the attacks cause you have no real response to the actual point. I guess stating that my post is facetious (it wasn't) and tantrum throwing (laughable) and other attacks add a viewpoint to the discussion (hint: they don't).

[habs rule]

OK my final word on the trade that rocked habs world. Who cares? Tinordi will have a career. The other 2 yoyo's will never be seen again. Maybe Snot if we can convince him to put Chara into retirement. Very small useless trade that accomplished nothing. I expected better from dumpster diving Marc but it is what it is. What a waste of 3 weeks. Let's hope that dapper mark down Marc has an ace up his sleeve. Cause right now I am not impressed.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

OK my final word on the trade that rocked habs world. Who cares? Tinordi will have a career. The other 2 yoyo's will never be seen again. Maybe Snot if we can convince him to put Chara into retirement. Very small useless trade that accomplished nothing. I expected better from dumpster diving Marc but it is what it is. What a waste of 3 weeks. Let's hope that dapper mark down Marc has an ace up his sleeve. Cause right now I am not impressed.

Bergevin has done a great job rebuilding the infrastructure of the organization, and depending on your opinion of the Subban deal, a good job of managing the cap.

Player acquisition is horrible, and never worse than this year. I think he got lucky in the beginning of his administration, and now a lot of these cutesy moves aren't looking as rosy as 2012.

[KoRP]

Yeah, it's harder to trade every year it seems, and everyone over pays at unrestricted free agency.

The friggin' no trade clauses have really taken the power away from GM's, not to mention the salary cap, so not surprised it's so hard to add to your team.

I'm still on Bergy's wagon

[habs rule]

Nobody hits a home run with every trade, Mark down Marc still has my support. Could we just get a forking goal scorer for forks sake.

[DON]

But most were all going gaga over Bergevin and Habs in 1st month of season. So just over the past 25 games he has become a bad GM?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

But most were all going gaga over Bergevin and Habs in 1st month of season. So just over the past 25 games he has become a bad GM?

This minor trade may be marginally bad or marginally good, but either way it's not worth anywhere near the energy expended on it by the fanbase. It has little bearing on ANYTHING significant to do with this organization.

[Neech]

I think Tinordi will have more of a career than O'Byrne had, and would have been worth more than this paltry return if he had been brought along more effectively. We're STILL paying for all those games of Bouillon/Murray/Gonchar when we could have been giving our youngsters NHL experience.

That said, Tinordi's fallen to around 9th on our depth chart, and he isn't the player we thought we once had. So it's not the biggest loss.