sbhatt Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 In short, we need one less smart, fast hockey player, and one more guy who can reliably SCORE, no matter what his other strengths and weaknesses. EXACTLY. I'd be thrilled to get a floater who backchecks with zero enthusiasm IF he was basically a puck launching turret on skates who can put the puck in then net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 EXACTLY. I'd be thrilled to get a floater who backchecks with zero enthusiasm IF he was basically a puck launching turret on skates who can put the puck in then net. In response to CC's point you quoted... I don't necessarily enjoy being the one to go on about a topic that not many agree with. Nor do I think Semin would be a saviour. With that being said, my point is once again being missed and then other people are saying similar things in a different way. The point I am trying to make is that either way you look at it, management and perhaps the coaching staff did not handle this situation correctly. If you look at any posts I've ever made on here, they have been positive in every way and last season I spent a lot of the season defending everyone. My point is that in the off season management picked up 3 forwards who had the potential to crack the top 6. In fact while none of them were shoe ins for the top 6, I actually personally brought up Fleischmann as potentially being able to fill in there rather than Eller, Semin or Kassian. So the fact is, I was not necessarily convinced about them either. The problem is that understanding that we needed a little more size, natural talent and scoring touch, these were the players that management chose to help out in that area and pick up in the off season. We then let Kassian and Semin go for nothing (Scrivens will be irrelevant) and effectively then replaced them with nothing. We then have people saying right now that we could use one less fast, smart hockey player, with a player who can reliably finish. Semin may not have been that player who can reliably finish but the point I am trying to make is that that is who management picked up in hopes of doing so. Once that didn't "pan out" after 15 games, we let him go and I can't see the argument that especially with his contract, we're currently a better team without the veteran. So you can pick your poison, either it was a mistake to acquire him in the first place which considering his contract, I do not agree with. Or the way it was handled once he arrived was wrong in and of itself. I watched the same games everyone else did and I still haven't heard a reason other than his speed that makes sense to me as to why he was singled out. It's just as likely that Semin was going through a confidence issue and slumping at the beginning of the season as it is that it was a permanent sign of his potential. Furthermore, other players have gone through far worse stretches with us... This doesn't even get into the fact that management had (most likely) already decided what they were going to do with Kassian at that point in time as well... Add that into the mix and hopefully my thought process becomes more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I keep hearing Semin got 15 games. He did not get 15 games with skilled guys that can set him up. He did not get a real look on the PP. He was played with grinders and that is just setting him up to fail. He was a gamble to begin with, but if you are going to take a gamble at least give it a chance. Ditto with kassian. The fact that no one picked up Semin does not mean anything. Teams are limited with moves they can make in season anyway. No one picked up higgens either. Is higgens washed up - I doubt it. Is he going to score 15 or 20 goals. Probably not. But he can probably get you 10 goals. If were to put fleichman on waivers I doubt if anyone picks him up either. Ditto with emelin. In response to CC's point you quoted... I don't necessarily enjoy being the one to go on about a topic that not many agree with. Nor do I think Semin would be a saviour. With that being said, my point is once again being missed and then other people are saying similar things in a different way. The point I am trying to make is that either way you look at it, management and perhaps the coaching staff did not handle this situation correctly. If you look at any posts I've ever made on here, they have been positive in every way and last season I spent a lot of the season defending everyone. My point is that in the off season management picked up 3 forwards who had the potential to crack the top 6. In fact while none of them were shoe ins for the top 6, I actually personally brought up Fleischmann as potentially being able to fill in there rather than Eller, Semin or Kassian. So the fact is, I was not necessarily convinced about them either. The problem is that understanding that we needed a little more size, natural talent and scoring touch, these were the players that management chose to help out in that area and pick up in the off season. We then let Kassian and Semin go for nothing (Scrivens will be irrelevant) and effectively then replaced them with nothing. We then have people saying right now that we could use one less fast, smart hockey player, with a player who can reliably finish. Semin may not have been that player who can reliably finish but the point I am trying to make is that that is who management picked up in hopes of doing so. Once that didn't "pan out" after 15 games, we let him go and I can't see the argument that especially with his contract, we're currently a better team without the veteran. So you can pick your poison, either it was a mistake to acquire him in the first place which considering his contract, I do not agree with. Or the way it was handled once he arrived was wrong in and of itself. I watched the same games everyone else did and I still haven't heard a reason other than his speed that makes sense to me as to why he was singled out. It's just as likely that Semin was going through a confidence issue and slumping at the beginning of the season as it is that it was a permanent sign of his potential. Furthermore, other players have gone through far worse patches with us... This doesn't even get into the fact that management had (most likely) already decided what they were going to do with Kassian at that point in time as well... Add that into the mix and hopefully my thought process becomes more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I keep hearing Semin got 15 games. He did not get 15 games with skilled guys that can set him up. He did not get a real look on the PP. He was played with grinders and that is just setting him up to fail. He was a gamble to begin with, but if you are going to take a gamble at least give it a chance. Ditto with kassian. The fact that no one picked up Semin does not mean anything. Teams are limited with moves they can make in season anyway. No one picked up highness either. Is higgens washed up - I doubt it. Is he going to score 15 or 20 goals. Probably not. But he can probably get you 10 goals. If were to put fleichman on waivers I doubt if anyone picks him up either. Ditto with emelin. I really don't think he was in Le Genius's plans from the get go. Le Genius likes 4th liners. Semin was a poor 4th liner. Could he have been a good 1st or 2nd liner, we will never know. He got 15 games at 12 mins per game inc p/p. That is too small a sample to say what he could have done. A lot of veterans are slow starters. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't, we will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Higgins wasn't picked up (yet) because of his expensive contract which extends until the end of 2017. That consideration did not apply to Semin. If we want to argue that management is blowing it, there has to be a better argument than pointing to a guy that nobody else wants - remember that he was a healthy scratch on a goal-starved Carolina team for something like 40 games - despite his being almost entirely cost-free. People for whom it is axiomatic that MT is a drooling idiot will of course point to everything that doesn't work out as being his fault. But this is a case where Occam's Razor applies. He sucked in Carolina. He sucked in Montreal. Nobody else wants him despite his being cost-free. The obvious, common-sense conclusion is, hey presto, he sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Ya but...Semin was just getting warmed up, he already got 3g in the KHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I keep hearing Semin got 15 games. He did not get 15 games with skilled guys that can set him up. He did not get a real look on the PP. He was played with grinders and that is just setting him up to fail. He was a gamble to begin with, but if you are going to take a gamble at least give it a chance. Ditto with kassian. The fact that no one picked up Semin does not mean anything. Teams are limited with moves they can make in season anyway. No one picked up higgens either. Is higgens washed up - I doubt it. Is he going to score 15 or 20 goals. Probably not. But he can probably get you 10 goals. If were to put fleichman on waivers I doubt if anyone picks him up either. Ditto with emelin. He played the majority of games with Galchenyuk. He had an extremely low percentage of his shots coming from the slot. It was clear he could not generate high quality chances, and he couldn't get himself open for high quality shots from good scoring areas. Semin was done, plain and simple and the fact that 29 other teams saw him play and no one wanted him made it very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I keep hearing Semin got 15 games. He did not get 15 games with skilled guys that can set him up. He did not get a real look on the PP. He was played with grinders and that is just setting him up to fail. He was a gamble to begin with, but if you are going to take a gamble at least give it a chance. Ditto with kassian. The fact that no one picked up Semin does not mean anything. Teams are limited with moves they can make in season anyway. No one picked up higgens either. Is higgens washed up - I doubt it. Is he going to score 15 or 20 goals. Probably not. But he can probably get you 10 goals. If were to put fleichman on waivers I doubt if anyone picks him up either. Ditto with emelin. Well, it's tough not to be played with grinders on this team. Besides Galchenyuk and Pacioretty, that's all we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Higgins wasn't picked up (yet) because of his expensive contract which extends until the end of 2017. That consideration did not apply to Semin. If we want to argue that management is blowing it, there has to be a better argument than pointing to a guy that nobody else wants - remember that he was a healthy scratch on a goal-starved Carolina team for something like 40 games - despite his being almost entirely cost-free. People for whom it is axiomatic that MT is a drooling idiot will of course point to everything that doesn't work out as being his fault. But this is a case where Occam's Razor applies. He sucked in Carolina. He sucked in Montreal. Nobody else wants him despite his being cost-free. The obvious, common-sense conclusion is, hey presto, he sucks. The timing was kind of odd. Andrighetto had a few big games and Semin was put on waivers. Now Andrighetto is in the minors. Maybe Therrien has difficulty with abstract thought. Grinder=can grind every game=player good. Scorer=can't score every game=player bad. I imagine that's the thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 When you score 1 goal in 15 games, do you get classified as a "scorer"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I agree that Semin didn't get a fair shake, especially since the team was around 1st place in the entire league when he was on the team. They could have definitely been more patient to see if either he could be more effective, or at least if his replacement was. He's not the player he once was, but is he really that much worse than AHL call ups or Paul "waiver pickup" Byron in a scoring role? The success at the start of the season in my opinion was largely based on a set line up with defined roles. There was no blender. Everyone was chipping in. Now here we are and there are grinders playing PP and top 6 minutes and nobody can score. And everyone is shocked? This team isn't going anywhere with Paul Byron and Dale Weise playing a key role in offense. No disrespect to them because they are playing great for their capabilities, but that shouldn't be confused with playing good in comparison to the rest of the league. Basically I'd take a underachieving Semin over an overachieving Byron in a top 6 scoring role any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 The timing was kind of odd. Andrighetto had a few big games and Semin was put on waivers. Now Andrighetto is in the minors. Maybe Therrien has difficulty with abstract thought. Grinder=can grind every game=player good. Scorer=can't score every game=player bad. I imagine that's the thought process. That sounds about right. I agree that Semin didn't get a fair shake, especially since the team was around 1st place in the entire league when he was on the team. They could have definitely been more patient to see if either he could be more effective, or at least if his replacement was. He's not the player he once was, but is he really that much worse than AHL call ups or Paul "waiver pickup" Byron in a scoring role? The success at the start of the season in my opinion was largely based on a set line up with defined roles. There was no blender. Everyone was chipping in. Now here we are and there are grinders playing PP and top 6 minutes and nobody can score. And everyone is shocked? This team isn't going anywhere with Paul Byron and Dale Weise playing a key role in offense. No disrespect to them because they are playing great for their capabilities, but that shouldn't be confused with playing good in comparison to the rest of the league. Basically I'd take a underachieving Semin over an overachieving Byron in a top 6 scoring role any day. Good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 When you score 1 goal in 15 games, do you get classified as a "scorer"... There are plenty on this team that can boast similar totals this year, doesn't mean they aren't scorers. Plekanec is a perennial 20+ goal scorer and he has 2 goals in the last 29 games. Is he not considered a scorer? Pacioretty went 12 games only scoring 1 goal, is he not considered a scorer? Bottom line, the people that have moved into Semin's slot aren't doing any better offensively than he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 There are plenty on this team that can boast similar totals this year, doesn't mean they aren't scorers. Plekanec is a perennial 20+ goal scorer and he has 2 goals in the last 29 games. Is he not considered a scorer? Pacioretty went 12 games only scoring 1 goal, is he not considered a scorer? Bottom line, the people that have moved into Semin's slot aren't doing any better offensively than he was. It wasn't a 15 game blip. He didn't score in Carolina either. He's never been the same player since his groin injury. He just can't avoid checkers and get to good areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 It wasn't a 15 game blip. He didn't score in Carolina either. He's never been the same player since his groin injury. He just can't avoid checkers and get to good areas. Mostly my point is that Byron and Andrighetto both have excellent groins and they still can't score in his vacated top 6 role. At least with Semin in the lineup, he had a defined role and the team was winning. Perhaps his deficiencies were masked by the success of the team, but that's a hell of a better problem to have rather than the situation we are in now. Fun fact: Montreal was 13-2 with Semin in the lineup. Take from that what you will but wins are wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 In response to CC's point you quoted... I don't necessarily enjoy being the one to go on about a topic that not many agree with. Nor do I think Semin would be a saviour. With that being said, my point is once again being missed and then other people are saying similar things in a different way. The point I am trying to make is that either way you look at it, management and perhaps the coaching staff did not handle this situation correctly. If you look at any posts I've ever made on here, they have been positive in every way and last season I spent a lot of the season defending everyone. My point is that in the off season management picked up 3 forwards who had the potential to crack the top 6. In fact while none of them were shoe ins for the top 6, I actually personally brought up Fleischmann as potentially being able to fill in there rather than Eller, Semin or Kassian. So the fact is, I was not necessarily convinced about them either. The problem is that understanding that we needed a little more size, natural talent and scoring touch, these were the players that management chose to help out in that area and pick up in the off season. We then let Kassian and Semin go for nothing (Scrivens will be irrelevant) and effectively then replaced them with nothing. We then have people saying right now that we could use one less fast, smart hockey player, with a player who can reliably finish. Semin may not have been that player who can reliably finish but the point I am trying to make is that that is who management picked up in hopes of doing so. Once that didn't "pan out" after 15 games, we let him go and I can't see the argument that especially with his contract, we're currently a better team without the veteran. So you can pick your poison, either it was a mistake to acquire him in the first place which considering his contract, I do not agree with. Or the way it was handled once he arrived was wrong in and of itself. I watched the same games everyone else did and I still haven't heard a reason other than his speed that makes sense to me as to why he was singled out. It's just as likely that Semin was going through a confidence issue and slumping at the beginning of the season as it is that it was a permanent sign of his potential. Furthermore, other players have gone through far worse stretches with us... This doesn't even get into the fact that management had (most likely) already decided what they were going to do with Kassian at that point in time as well... Add that into the mix and hopefully my thought process becomes more clear. I agree that Semin didn't get a fair shake, especially since the team was around 1st place in the entire league when he was on the team. They could have definitely been more patient to see if either he could be more effective, or at least if his replacement was. He's not the player he once was, but is he really that much worse than AHL call ups or Paul "waiver pickup" Byron in a scoring role? The success at the start of the season in my opinion was largely based on a set line up with defined roles. There was no blender. Everyone was chipping in. Now here we are and there are grinders playing PP and top 6 minutes and nobody can score. And everyone is shocked? This team isn't going anywhere with Paul Byron and Dale Weise playing a key role in offense. No disrespect to them because they are playing great for their capabilities, but that shouldn't be confused with playing good in comparison to the rest of the league. Basically I'd take a underachieving Semin over an overachieving Byron in a top 6 scoring role any day. Outside of Cuke and Commandant, I think anyone would struggle to disagree with these posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Rag on Byron all you want, but Paul Byron already has more goals this season (in just half a year) than Semin had in all of last season with Carolina + his 15 games this season with the Habs combined..... just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Byron would be one of last players I would be complaining about, for $0.9m he is super value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 We should have won this game, out played and out classed the blues all night. Our goalie let us down in this game, plain and simple. We also out played the Hawks the night before and should have won. As long as I see us dominating teams in that fashion I know we will get some puck luck and start to win again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Byron would be one of last players I would be complaining about, for $0.9m he is super value. Nobody is complaining about Byron, just the role we are forced to use him in, because of a lack of top 6 talent, that's the thing. Hard to complain about Byron the penalty killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Are the same people who are regularly (and falsely) claiming that the Habs refuse to give 'a chance' to young players, simultaneously complaining that they gave a spot to Carr and Andrighetto rather than a 31-year-old has-been who scored 7 goals in his last 73 NHL games? Nah. That couldn't be, could it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 back on topic, that was my favorite game of the season so far. in terms of entertainment, I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Are the same people who are regularly (and falsely) claiming that the Habs refuse to give 'a chance' to young players, simultaneously complaining that they gave a spot to Carr and Andrighetto rather than a 31-year-old has-been who scored 7 goals in his last 73 NHL games? Nah. That couldn't be, could it. No top 6 options among any of those young players, other than (possibly) Hudon. Once again, we're asking players to outperform in roles they aren't suited for (at worst) or ready for (at best). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 No top 6 options among any of those young players, other than (possibly) Hudon. Once again, we're asking players to outperform in roles they aren't suited for (at worst) or ready for (at best). Carr could be a top 6 guy IMO. He produced like one. He needs to cure some defensive miscues, but he had good production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Carr could be a top 6 guy IMO. He produced like one. He needs to cure some defensive miscues, but he had good production. I feel Hudon is also going to be top 6 worthy. Both should spend half of a season on the 3rd line first though. Andrighetto... eh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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