Trade Subban traded to Nashville

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

So... Almost lost a fight to heavyweight fighting champ Gabriel landeskog and scored a couple point shots. Nice. Hilight pack is mind blowing.

You can take a shit sandwich and put havarti dijon and present it on a nice plate but in the end its still a shit sandwich. That's what this trade was. I would trade Pacioretty and fire Mt and MB to keep subban. If this turns out to be a Roy or Leclair or Dejardains or Chelios type move that haunts us for 10 years, I will hate those three forever.

It's interesting to ask whether Patches played some indirect role in this debacle. Certainly if we were going to blame 'core' players for the disaster and talk about a leadership deficit, then the frigging captain, who like Subban did not have a stellar year, should have been the first person looked at. In the end, though, the blame for The Trade rests with Dumb and Dumber, not Patches.

Anyway, the contrast in highlight packages is actually kind of depressing. With Weber, it's all shots from the point and a couple of crushing body checks. No one doubts he has the best point blast in hockey and that he is an intimidating physical presence. However, Subban ALSO has the cannon from the point - only a shade less impactful than Weber's - and used to lay devastating body checks (until the coaches forbade him to do it - funny how the Webers of the world are allowed to do it, I guess being a good boy helps, huh?), AND can do a whole lot more, including make plays, transition from D to offence, generate end to end rushes, deke a team out of its jockstrap, blow past guys at such speed they fall down, score from afar and in close, etc., etc..

This notion that Weber is a 'winner' is not predicated on any actual facts other than the Olympics (where he was part of an all-star team) and that he looks like what everyone expects a Cup winner to be: blood and guts, big strong Canadian boy who toes the company line.

Anyway...I've said my bit, but it remains depressing, and I share your basic sentiment 100%.

[BCHabnut]

You will hate Pacioretty forever, because he is captain or something?

No. If he is part of why subban was traded. Friction between the two. I love Pacioretty contract but he acted like a pouty little pu&$y last year when the chips were down. From my perspective if I had to trade one to clean up chemistry in the room, it would be him.I realize there is more to this but I can't fathom a team that had to handle a moody lafleur or a psychotic Roy and keep things rolling, giving up on a talent like PK. I will let it go, bit I'm just not ready to yet.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

He hasn't won any Stanley cups and Nashville has never made it out of the second round. Is that all Webers fault?

It's a team sport. Always has been. Win as a team, lose as a team.

But boy was he a poop soufflé in the San Jose series.

[DON]

It's interesting to ask whether Patches played some indirect role in this debacle. Certainly if we were going to blame 'core' players for the disaster and talk about a leadership deficit, then the frigging captain, who like Subban did not have a stellar year, should have been the first person looked at. In the end, though, the blame for The Trade rests with Dumb and Dumber, not Patches.

Anyway, the contrast in highlight packages is actually kind of depressing. With Weber, it's all shots from the point and a couple of crushing body checks. No one doubts he has the best point blast in hockey and that he is an intimidating physical presence. However, Subban ALSO has the cannon from the point - only a shade less impactful than Weber's - and used to lay devastating body checks (until the coaches forbade him to do it - funny how the Webers of the world are allowed to do it, I guess being a good boy helps, huh?), AND can do a whole lot more, including make plays, transition from D to offence, generate end to end rushes, deke a team out of its jockstrap, blow past guys at such speed they fall down, score from afar and in close, etc., etc..

This notion that Weber is a 'winner' is not predicated on any actual facts other than the Olympics (where he was part of an all-star team) and that he looks like what everyone expects a Cup winner to be: blood and guts, big strong Canadian boy who toes the company line.

Anyway...I've said my bit, but it remains depressing, and I share your basic sentiment 100%.

Subbans cannon wasn't very effective, as he had trouble hitting the net with puck and was quite wild with his slapshot and I never heard that Subban was told to not hit, who wrote that?

[hab29RETIRED]

According to MB and MT, pouting is the appropriate response to losing, rather than being upbeat about the games that are ahead.

No. If he is part of why subban was traded. Friction between the two. I love Pacioretty contract but he acted like a pouty little pu&$y last year when the chips were down. From my perspective if I had to trade one to clean up chemistry in the room, it would be him.I realize there is more to this but I can't fathom a team that had to handle a moody lafleur or a psychotic Roy and keep things rolling, giving up on a talent like PK. I will let it go, bit I'm just not ready to yet.

[BCHabnut]

I just watched the Engles subban interview part 1 on sportsnet. I'm even more mad now. I don't hate Weber. I think Weber is an awesome hockey player. But PK is A superstar. And the fact that these idiots couldn't recognize it makes me sick. I want to be wrong. I want Weber to dominate the league now and for PK to not rub this in our faces. I just don't think it's a reality. I think the west is about to find out what I have believed for four years. PK and Karlsson are the best defenseman in the NHL.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Subbans cannon wasn't very effective, as he had trouble hitting the net with puck and was quite wild with his slapshot and I never heard that Subban was told to not hit, who wrote that?

Actually Subban has scored more PP than Weber in 3 of the past 6 seasons. You're inferring too much from PK's struggles from the point this season alone.

As for not hitting, he used to lay guys out with the hip check, but that was all part of his being criticized as 'high risk.' Presumably he stopped because the coaches flipped their lids every time a hit didn't work.

BCHabut, don't worry. Subban will be universally acknowledged as a dominant force in Nashville. As for Weber, the likeliest outcome is that in about three years we will be hearing about how 'he's not the fastest guy out there,' etc., etc..

[Scott462]

It's a team sport. Always has been. Win as a team, lose as a team.

But boy was he a poop soufflé in the San Jose series.

He had a bad game 7 but so did the rest of his team. Rinne was just as bad, that series in general was tough on Nashville and that had a lot to do with San Jose just being a beast team that put it all together and Nashville still took it to game 7.

I can see both players doing well this year or at least I hope they can. Being a PK fan and Weber fan is not mutually exclusive. Lol

[Guest Stogey24]

I could see Weber around 40-45pts and P.K at 70pts.

[DON]

I could see Weber around 40-45pts and P.K at 70pts.

You do know that eye exams arnt expensive.

Actually Subban has scored more PP than Weber in 3 of the past 6 seasons. You're inferring too much from PK's struggles from the point this season alone.

As for not hitting, he used to lay guys out with the hip check, but that was all part of his being criticized as 'high risk.' Presumably he stopped because the coaches flipped their lids every time a hit didn't work.

BCHabut, don't worry. Subban will be universally acknowledged as a dominant force in Nashville. As for Weber, the likeliest outcome is that in about three years we will be hearing about how 'he's not the fastest guy out there,' etc., etc..

Not inferring anything, Subban has scared the crap out of his own forwards since he came into league. Subban plays more on the PP than anyone, so he darn well should have some PP points. I think all could see Subban cant hit without running at someone from across the ice and when he missed, which was often, he took him self out of the play and left Markov with odd man scenario.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

70 pts is not unrealistic at all for Subban. His PPG total from last season - not a great season by his standards - was 61 points. I repeat: 61 points in an off-season.

Weber has been Mr. Reliable in putting up 50 points per season under two different coaches and with two different D partners. Despite being stuck with a non-elite partner for the first time in a decade, we rationally have to pencil him in for 50 points again. Interestingly, his PP goals per season are not nearly as consistent. He had 5 in 2014-15, then jumped up to 14 last year. Given that our coach cannot coach a PP to save his arse, expect a drop-off, with him and PK probably getting similar PP goal totals, since he is due for a significant bump after that bizarre first half last season.

As for hitting, the coaches should have worked with him to improve that aspect of his game, because he sure could lay guys out. It looks instead like they told him to leave it to Emelin (who also puts himself out of position to lay on the hits). Certainly this would be consistent with the constipated, frightened coaching style that Dumb represents.

DON, I see you are falling into the trap of slagging Subban - as though a superstar is a 'problem' - in order to compensate for your perception that people are running down Weber. Fact is, Weber is a very good player. Subban is just better than him in all sorts of aspects of the game, that's all.

[DON]

70 pts is not unrealistic at all for Subban. His PPG total from last season - not a great season by his standards - was 61 points. I repeat: 61 points in an off-season.

Weber has been Mr. Reliable in putting up 50 points per season under two different coaches and with two different D partners. Despite being stuck with a non-elite partner for the first time in a decade, we rationally have to pencil him in for 50 points again. Interestingly, his PP goals per season are not nearly as consistent. He had 5 in 2014-15, then jumped up to 14 last year. Given that our coach cannot coach a PP to save his arse, expect a drop-off, with him and PK probably getting similar PP goal totals, since he is due for a significant bump after that bizarre first half last season.

As for hitting, the coaches should have worked with him to improve that aspect of his game, because he sure could lay guys out. It looks instead like they told him to leave it to Emelin (who also puts himself out of position to lay on the hits). Certainly this would be consistent with the constipated, frightened coaching style that Dumb represents.

DON, I see you are falling into the trap of slagging Subban - as though a superstar is a 'problem' - in order to compensate for your perception that people are running down Weber. Fact is, Weber is a very good player. Subban is just better than him in all sorts of aspects of the game, that's all.

Actually has nothing to do with trade. Always criticized Subban for his need to wind up liks John Daley and send a rocket off the backboards with his forwards scrambling to duck. And an undersized 5'10" d-man simply cant hit hard without blindsiding an opponent, Kasparitis I guess is prime example. But I think Suban smartened up and realized one big hit isn't worth taking himself out of the play. So I would compliment him on that. You can read into comments as you see fit, but you are mistaken on these ones.

[habs rule]

Actually has nothing to do with trade. Always criticized Subban for his need to wind up liks John Daley and send a rocket off the backboards with his forwards scrambling to duck. And an undersized 5'10" d-man simply cant hit hard without blindsiding an opponent, Kasparitis I guess is prime example. But I think Suban smartened up and realized one big hit isn't worth taking himself out of the play. So I would compliment him on that. You can read into comments as you see fit, but you are mistaken on these ones.

PK is 6.0 and 220 lbs, not really huge but he is very powerful.

[hab29RETIRED]

I actually think subban will get over 70 points, while with Weber 50 would be a best case scenario.

70 pts is not unrealistic at all for Subban. His PPG total from last season - not a great season by his standards - was 61 points. I repeat: 61 points in an off-season.

Weber has been Mr. Reliable in putting up 50 points per season under two different coaches and with two different D partners. Despite being stuck with a non-elite partner for the first time in a decade, we rationally have to pencil him in for 50 points again. Interestingly, his PP goals per season are not nearly as consistent. He had 5 in 2014-15, then jumped up to 14 last year. Given that our coach cannot coach a PP to save his arse, expect a drop-off, with him and PK probably getting similar PP goal totals, since he is due for a significant bump after that bizarre first half last season.

As for hitting, the coaches should have worked with him to improve that aspect of his game, because he sure could lay guys out. It looks instead like they told him to leave it to Emelin (who also puts himself out of position to lay on the hits). Certainly this would be consistent with the constipated, frightened coaching style that Dumb represents.

DON, I see you are falling into the trap of slagging Subban - as though a superstar is a 'problem' - in order to compensate for your perception that people are running down Weber. Fact is, Weber is a very good player. Subban is just better than him in all sorts of aspects of the game, that's all.

[hab29RETIRED]

I don't like subban's windup either, but this is where I think if you habs had a decent coach for the defence (i.e Robinson, who was too threatening for dumb and sumber), they would have helped him.move away from the big windup. I don't think dandenault opinion would have as much stock or credibility.

Subban is bigger than 5'10" and he has destroyed wingers with checks in the past.

Actually has nothing to do with trade. Always criticized Subban for his need to wind up liks John Daley and send a rocket off the backboards with his forwards scrambling to duck. And an undersized 5'10" d-man simply cant hit hard without blindsiding an opponent, Kasparitis I guess is prime example. But I think Suban smartened up and realized one big hit isn't worth taking himself out of the play. So I would compliment him on that. You can read into comments as you see fit, but you are mistaken on these ones.

[Guest Stogey24]

70 pts is not unrealistic at all for Subban. His PPG total from last season - not a great season by his standards - was 61 points. I repeat: 61 points in an off-season.

Weber has been Mr. Reliable in putting up 50 points per season under two different coaches and with two different D partners. Despite being stuck with a non-elite partner for the first time in a decade, we rationally have to pencil him in for 50 points again. Interestingly, his PP goals per season are not nearly as consistent. He had 5 in 2014-15, then jumped up to 14 last year. Given that our coach cannot coach a PP to save his arse, expect a drop-off, with him and PK probably getting similar PP goal totals, since he is due for a significant bump after that bizarre first half last season.

As for hitting, the coaches should have worked with him to improve that aspect of his game, because he sure could lay guys out. It looks instead like they told him to leave it to Emelin (who also puts himself out of position to lay on the hits). Certainly this would be consistent with the constipated, frightened coaching style that Dumb represents.

DON, I see you are falling into the trap of slagging Subban - as though a superstar is a 'problem' - in order to compensate for your perception that people are running down Weber. Fact is, Weber is a very good player. Subban is just better than him in all sorts of aspects of the game, that's all.

Josi and Subban will be the best tandem in the nhl.

If Subban can free wheel like Karlsson, there is no telling what his point totals will end up being.

[habs rule]

I actually think subban will get over 70 points, while with Weber 50 would be a best case scenario.

And yet we need more offence not less, great thinking by the management group.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Subban is bigger than 5'10" and he has destroyed wingers with checks in the past.

He was 5'10" on draft day. He has been measured at six feet tall since around 2010.

[habs rule]

Subban added: “Since the day I was drafted I just saw an opportunity to be like other great leaders and captains in this organization. Before anything to raise a Stanley Cup and then to have my opportunity to see my jersey in the rafters with those other great Montreal Canadiens because I just wanted to make my Dad proud and I know that he was a huge Habs fan. I mean my ultimate goal was to win a Stanley Cup here and it’s not going to happen.”

From his interview with Eric Engles. Boy it sure is a good thing we got rid of this sad sack. What a lousy attitude.

[hab29RETIRED]

But he doesn't pout in front of the media after a loss. That's the real indication that he cares. A leader needs to look constantly constipated like Le idiot.

Subban added: Since the day I was drafted I just saw an opportunity to be like other great leaders and captains in this organization. Before anything to raise a Stanley Cup and then to have my opportunity to see my jersey in the rafters with those other great Montreal Canadiens because I just wanted to make my Dad proud and I know that he was a huge Habs fan. I mean my ultimate goal was to win a Stanley Cup here and its not going to happen.

From his interview with Eric Engles. Boy it sure is a good thing we got rid of this sad sack. What a lousy attitude.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

But he doesn't pout in front of the media after a loss. That's the real indication that he cares. A leader needs to look constantly constipated like Le idiot.

Get angry when you lose BUT don't say too much or else you might look bad to the organization.

That's exactly what happened with Subban. When he got angry he said he wasn't paid to score, he was paid to help his teammates win. Nobody liked that. Lose lose situation. Basically get mad but just look mad because you still need to be in control of your emotions and not say anything crazy.

Then again Montreal traded for Andrew Shaw, who sure likes to say colourful (homophobic) things to referees when he loses control. I thought that was a big reason we got rid of Prust? Guess not.

[DON]

I don't like subban's windup either, but this is where I think if you habs had a decent coach for the defence (i.e Robinson, who was too threatening for dumb and sumber), they would have helped him.move away from the big windup. I don't think dandenault opinion would have as much stock or credibility.

Subban is bigger than 5'10" and he has destroyed wingers with checks in the past.

And Kaspiritis was the first to fall the indestructible and unstoppable Lindros.

Anyone can do it if you catch a vulnerable and defenceless opponent.

[DON]

Subban added: “Since the day I was drafted I just saw an opportunity to be like other great leaders and captains in this organization. Before anything to raise a Stanley Cup and then to have my opportunity to see my jersey in the rafters with those other great Montreal Canadiens because I just wanted to make my Dad proud and I know that he was a huge Habs fan. I mean my ultimate goal was to win a Stanley Cup here and it’s not going to happen.”

From his interview with Eric Engles. Boy it sure is a good thing we got rid of this sad sack. What a lousy attitude.

Talk is cheap.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

But he doesn't pout in front of the media after a loss. That's the real indication that he cares. A leader needs to look constantly constipated like Le idiot.

Habs29, when it comes to channeling outrage over a trade that deserves it, you're the king.

[habs rule]

Talk is cheap.

PK ain't cheap.