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Jets @ Habs, April 8th at 7:00 pm


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2 minutes ago, DON said:

Well, i would say, he again had several other terrible lazy plays, creating turnovers for no good reason.


Petry has been very poor for several games now. Is it Kulak or the loss of Edmundson?

 

Petry has become a turnover machine and we need him to figure it out. 
 

I want Petry to win the Norris 

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27 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Petry has been very poor for several games now. Is it Kulak or the loss of Edmundson?

 

Petry has become a turnover machine and we need him to figure it out. 
 

I want Petry to win the Norris 

 

I love Petry. But he does have a history of going through these bad patches defensively. Still, it might be worth putting him back with Edmundson (who turns out to have been a very canny pickup, I have to say).

 

As far as this game goes, I don’t know if I can recall another Habs squad that seems so chronically prone to “bad habits” - i.e., things like surrendering a goal early in a game, blowing games in OT, taking dumb and untimely penalties, having massive brain-farts at key moments, getting poor goaltending at their wrong moment, etc.. There seems to be something fundamental to this group that they keep relapsing into these sorts of tendencies: finding ways to lose. And while I think it was a good idea to replace Julien with DD, this basic identity seems unchanged. Maybe part of it is just having a defence corps whose best players are all (except Petry) lumbering slowfoots?

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19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I love Petry. But he does have a history of going through these bad patches defensively. Still, it might be worth putting him back with Edmundson (who turns out to have been a very canny pickup, I have to say).

 

As far as this game goes, I don’t know if I can recall another Habs squad that seems so chronically prone to “bad habits” - i.e., things like surrendering a goal early in a game, blowing games in OT, taking dumb and untimely penalties, having massive brain-farts at key moments, getting poor goaltending at their wrong moment, etc.. There seems to be something fundamental to this group that they keep relapsing into these sorts of tendencies: finding ways to lose. And while I think it was a good idea to replace Julien with DD, this basic identity seems unchanged. Maybe part of it is just having a defence corps whose best players are all (except Petry) lumbering slowfoots?


Last year it was the opposite problem. We routinely got scored on in the final minute of a period. 
 

I thought we were improving under DD but he has roughly the same record as Julien. I’m believing that a very strong puck moving D can turn us around and I’m hoping Bergevin makes it happen 

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3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Last year it was the opposite problem. We routinely got scored on in the final minute of a period. 
 

I thought we were improving under DD but he has roughly the same record as Julien. I’m believing that a very strong puck moving D can turn us around and I’m hoping Bergevin makes it happen 

 

I agree and I think it *has* to happen if this group wants to seriously contend. That’s our only chance. It may not work out, but if we are all in this year, then that’s the one obvious missing piece.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

He works hard maybe 7 out of 10 games. He only played 12 minutes last night so maybe that’s the solution to his lazy ass? Don’t play him much so he has some energy?

 

Trade him to Columbus 

 

What would the over/under be on Tortorella benching him?  1 period?

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7 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

What would the over/under be on Tortorella benching him?  1 period?


Lol 

 

Frustrating thing is Drouin can be a dominant player. I don’t know what he needs to turn it around and work hard every shift but I don’t think it happens in Montreal. 
 

Kind of like Riberio getting it together after leaving Montreal 

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40 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Lol 

 

Frustrating thing is Drouin can be a dominant player. I don’t know what he needs to turn it around and work hard every shift but I don’t think it happens in Montreal. 
 

Kind of like Riberio getting it together after leaving Montreal 

 

I’ve seen lots of guys like him over the years...lots of talent, just too soft mentally. He will never amount to much more than he is now IMHO

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

As far as this game goes, I don’t know if I can recall another Habs squad that seems so chronically prone to “bad habits” - i.e., things like surrendering a goal early in a game, blowing games in OT, taking dumb and untimely penalties, having massive brain-farts at key moments, getting poor goaltending at their wrong moment, etc.. There seems to be something fundamental to this group that they keep relapsing into these sorts of tendencies: finding ways to lose. And while I think it was a good idea to replace Julien with DD, this basic identity seems unchanged. Maybe part of it is just having a defence corps whose best players are all (except Petry) lumbering slowfoots?

One thing Ducharme appears to have had a significant impact on is the number of penalties we have to kill: under Julien we were averaging 4.0 penalty kills per game, now it's 2.6, and dropping. Given that almost a quarter of those result in a goal, that's a difference of about 0.35 goals/game.

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45 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

... 

Frustrating thing is Drouin can be a dominant player ... but I don’t think it happens in Montreal ... Kind of like Riberio getting it together after leaving Montreal 

So we all hope, but less and less certain it is true ... while JD has TALENT, but Ribeiro always had an edge to his game that Drouin hasn't shown

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Mete is as good as Reilly was when he was with the club and in my potato head opinion he could be as good as Gohtisbehete was if he finds a club that plays him regularly

IMO, Mete may be similar (as good or poor) to Reilly or Gostisbehere defensively but lacks the offensive skills/instincts that gets them their icetime

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7 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I love Petry. But he does have a history of going through these bad patches defensively. Still, it might be worth putting him back with Edmundson (who turns out to have been a very canny pickup, I have to say).

 

As far as this game goes, I don’t know if I can recall another Habs squad that seems so chronically prone to “bad habits” - i.e., things like surrendering a goal early in a game, blowing games in OT, taking dumb and untimely penalties, having massive brain-farts at key moments, getting poor goaltending at their wrong moment, etc.. There seems to be something fundamental to this group that they keep relapsing into these sorts of tendencies: finding ways to lose. And while I think it was a good idea to replace Julien with DD, this basic identity seems unchanged. Maybe part of it is just having a defence corps whose best players are all (except Petry) lumbering slowfoots?

Petry is never a guy who I ever envisioned being the best dman in the team, nor have I considered him a very good defensive dman. I always saw him as a good offensive Dman, who was competent defensively. He started off having a career year and I think either played better, or looked better than what he is. He has come back to normal. Ideally he would be a solid second pairing dman. Which gets back to the core issue. We don’t really have a true top pairing. Weber is no longer a top pairing option and makes too much to be a middle pairing dman. To me the ideal situation going forward is as follows:

1) pick up a true top pairing dman at the deadline to bolster our playoff chances.

2) over the summer, move/expose Weber and get the other top pairing dman

3) Romanov progresses through the remainder of this year and playoffs and becomes a viable 2nd pairing with Petry next year (can’t force the issue though if he isn’t ready).

4) have Edmondson, Kulak, or a rookie like Brook if ready to be on the bottom pairing,  and depth positions


I’ve been saying we need to rebuild the defence since last year. This year’s additions were more of improvements of depth pairing dmen, but really at not legit top 4 options for a true contender.

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20 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Petry is never a guy who I ever envisioned being the best dman in the team, nor have I considered him a very good defensive dman. I always saw him as a good offensive Dman, who was competent defensively. He started off having a career year and I think either played better, or looked better than what he is. He has come back to normal. Ideally he would be a solid second pairing dman. Which gets back to the core issue. We don’t really have a true top pairing. Weber is no longer a top pairing option and makes too much to be a middle pairing dman. To me the ideal situation going forward is as follows:

1) pick up a true top pairing dman at the deadline to bolster our playoff chances.

2) over the summer, move/expose Weber and get the other top pairing dman

3) Romanov progresses through the remainder of this year and playoffs and becomes a viable 2nd pairing with Petry next year (can’t force the issue though if he isn’t ready).

4) have Edmondson, Kulak, or a rookie like Brook if ready to be on the bottom pairing,  and depth positions


I’ve been saying we need to rebuild the defence since last year. This year’s additions were more of improvements of depth pairing dmen, but really at not legit top 4 options for a true contender.


Habs have 4 to 6 good D prospects out of which we may get top-4 pairing guys

 

Defense will improve through the draft IMHO

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38 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


Habs have 4 to 6 good D prospects out of which we may get top-4 pairing guys

 

Defense will improve through the draft IMHO

If we don’t trade those prospects for another lazy ass winger 🤢

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50 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Habs have 4 to 6 good D prospects out of which we may get top-4 pairing guys

Defense will improve through the draft IMHO

But in the 2, more likely 3-4, seasons that it will take for them to develop into legit top 4 defencemen ... the Habs cannot count on the Weber/Price/Petry core still being core-ish.

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33 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If we don’t trade those prospects for another lazy ass winger 🤢


I hope that doesn’t happen

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11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

But in the 2, more likely 3-4, seasons that it will take for them to develop into legit top 4 defencemen ... the Habs cannot count on the Weber/Price/Petry core still being core-ish.

I don’t even think that is a viable core next year. In the absence of a superstar centre, we need better defence amd have to get consistent goaltending. Petry is what I’d expect him to be. Weber isn’t a top pairing dman anymore and we don’t have any stud prospects that are guaranteed to become top pairing or even top 4 pairing dmen.  I don’t see any prospects that can be counted to be core pieces within 2 years. Romanov was the best D prospect we had and he is still adjusting to being a bottom pairing dman - and there is nothing wrong with that. Defencmen take longer to develop. 

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16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

But in the 2, more likely 3-4, seasons that it will take for them to develop into legit top 4 defencemen ... the Habs cannot count on the Weber/Price/Petry core still being core-ish.


that is why I think MB is all in and why I think he will continue with his plan of improving from the bottom: adding better 3rd pair / bottom 6 players pushing the Metes, Weals and Lindgrens out of the picture

 

He wants to have his cake and eat it too

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t even think that is a viable core next year. In the absence of a superstar centre, we need better defence amd have to get consistent goaltending. Petry is what I’d expect him to be. Weber isn’t a top pairing dman anymore and we don’t have any stud prospects that are guaranteed to become top pairing or even top 4 pairing dmen.  I don’t see any prospects that can be counted to be core pieces within 2 years. Romanov was the best D prospect we had and he is still adjusting to being a bottom pairing dman - and there is nothing wrong with that. Defencmen take longer to develop. 

No prospect comes with a guarantee. Look at the past top-three NHL draft picks, regardless of the team, and see how many of them have fizzled out.

 

That said, we have some promising prospects. Some of them might even be capable of playing in the top pair. But we don't know that yet.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

No prospect comes with a guarantee. Look at the past top-three NHL draft picks, regardless of the team, and see how many of them have fizzled out.

 

That said, we have some promising prospects. Some of them might even be capable of playing in the top pair. But we don't know that yet.

I agree with that. What I’m trying to say is that if you have an Ekblad, Herman, Dahlin, Hughes type of d prospect, you have a better chance that the guy becomes a top pairing, or even top pairing D - and even that’s not guaranteed. Very few 18-19-20-21-22 year old dman are ready to be top pairing/top 4 guys at that age. Hedman was not the player at 19-20 that he is now.  The guys we have are not even close to those types of prospects. They may become top 4, maybe even top pairing, but to expect them to be in the top 4 to fill our hole is unrealistic. An elite forward can let his offensive talent hide his over-all defensive game, or play without the puck and develop those skills over time. Young defenseman usually don’t have that luxury and a lot fewer dominate R a young age. When Maker and Hughes came up and dominated, that was very unusual, in the other hand a lot of forwards have been able to become top line or top six players in their first year.  
 

Caufield has a better chance of becoming a star and succeeding THIS year, than any of our defensive prospects do of being in the top 4 NEXT year.  We absolutely cannot go in next year with the plan, expectation, or hope that one of our D prospects will magically become the solution to our weak defense next year. Do I hope they will?  Absolutely. Do I think it’s going to happen. Doubtful. Romanov is a prime example, that you can’t hope that a 20 or 21 year old dman is going to solve your blue line problems.  We also can’t keep signing or trading for bottom pairing guys to address the holes  in our top 4.

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