What is Phil Danault worth?

[tomh009]

26 minutes ago, DON said:

Moreso for Suzuki, just hope for progression with Kotkaniemi, fingers crossed he comes in stronger, more confident and more consistent.

He said he was specifically going to work on his skating, and I think that's a good move. He has strength and muscle already, but some additional speed would help -- and better balance, too. The skating coaches Armia has been using are quite good.

[alfredoh2009]

49 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

No question, Suzuki and KK are going to be huge components of any success the Habs have next year. 

There is no one in the Habs roster that can shelter either one or replace their projected production.

we’ll win and lose with those two 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

12 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

There is no one in the Habs roster that can shelter either one or replace their projected production.

we’ll win and lose with those two 

 

Yep. Now Suzuki I’m not worried about, but KK is a gigantic question mark. He is coming off two semi-disastrous seasons, each partially redeemed by good playoffs - although it is telling that he was benched in the Finals, sliding back into struggles after an early burst.

 

Looking at the team right now, we need some combo of him and Evans to eat Danault’s minutes. That is quite an ask for a kid who has probably never played more than 15 quality NHL games in a row.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. Now Suzuki I’m not worried about, but KK is a gigantic question mark. He is coming off two semi-disastrous seasons, each partially redeemed by good playoffs - although it is telling that he was benched in the Finals, sliding back into struggles after an early burst.

 

Looking at the team right now, we need some combo of him and Evans to eat Danault’s minutes. That is quite an ask for a kid who has probably never played more than 15 quality NHL games in a row.

I think the Habs still need a 3rd line center at worst, or a 2nd line center at best. Only available options are through a trade, unless Poehling surprises everyone

 

Depth at center:

Suzuki

<TBD>

Kotkaniemi

Paquette

 

They may bunp KK up and try Evans or Poehling at 3C, but that does not make for a cup contender

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I think the Habs still need a 3rd line center at worst, or a 2nd line center at best. Only available options are through a trade, unless Poehling surprises everyone

 

Depth at center:

Suzuki

<TBD>

Kotkaniemi

Paquette

 

They may bunp KK up and try Evans or Poehling at 3C, but that does not make for a cup contender

 

Even if Poehling develops into a quality NHLer, there is zero chance he will become a viable #2-3 C eating hard minutes against top opponents over an 82-game schedule next season. That is not a shot against Poehling, it is just a realistic assessment of what you can expect from rookies.

 

I agree with you - but I note that you omit Evans from the above configuration. I can see the Habs going into the season crossing their fingers that some combination of Evans and KK can eat those tough minutes. I have more faith in Evans to be consistent over a long stretch of games, but such a configuration is unlikely to be viable in the long run either. To me, it’s only a question of timing: when the Habs will acquire a legit #2-3 C, not whether. 

[tomh009]

16 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

They may bunp KK up and try Evans or Poehling at 3C, but that does not make for a cup contender

We are not a cup contender. We wouldn't be even if we had signed Douglas Hamilton. And we won't be next year, either.

 

Doesn't mean that a playoff run won't happen, and that really should be the goal: get in the playoffs (and not on the last day of the season), and start by winning the first-round series.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Even if Poehling develops into a quality NHLer, there is zero chance he will become a viable #2-3 C eating hard minutes against top opponents over an 82-game schedule next season. That is not a shot against Poehling, it is just a realistic assessment of what you can expect from rookies.

 

I agree with you - but I note that you omit Evans from the above configuration. I can see the Habs going into the season crossing their fingers that some combination of Evans and KK can eat those tough minutes. I have more faith in Evans to be consistent over a long stretch of games, but such a configuration is unlikely to be viable in the long run either. To me, it’s only a question of timing: when the Habs will acquire a legit #2-3 C, not whether. 

you are right, I forgot Evans. Right now we have this bubble team lineup:

 

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher (2-way line)

Hoffman-Suzuki-Anderson (Scoring line)

Drouin-Evans/Poehling-Armia (cross your fingers and pray line)

Byron-Paquette-Evans/Poehling (good checking/energy line)

 

That leaves Caufield out of the lineup. He does not fir in the 4th line and he is not better than healthy Gallagher, Andersson or Armia. Not in the role those three players play

 

[GHT120]

11 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

you are right, I forgot Evans. Right now we have this bubble team lineup:

 

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher (2-way line)

Hoffman-Suzuki-Anderson (Scoring line)

Drouin-Evans/Poehling-Armia (cross your fingers and pray line)

Byron-Paquette-Evans/Poehling (good checking/energy line)

 

That leaves Caufield out of the lineup. He does not fir in the 4th line and he is not better than healthy Gallagher, Andersson or Armia. Not in the role those three players play

 

No way Caufield is not in the lineup ... MB seems to perhaps be hoping that six top 6 wingers with scoring ability will offset the loss of Weber ... and none of the other offensive wingers fit on the 4th line ... which is why Armia and Byron, both very good players, are both cap issues IMO ... and also why I see a couple of trades coming ... one to move Byron and one for a 3C ... maybe both in one.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It seems to me that if you scratch Poehling and bump Armia to Line 4, you have ample room for Caufield. So one could argue that the Habs have an admirable level of competition for jobs between Byron/Paquette/Poehling -no real problem here in terms of “making room” for Bilbo or for any other legitimate top 6/top 9 FW.

[hab29RETIRED]

17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

you are right, I forgot Evans. Right now we have this bubble team lineup:

 

Toffoli-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher (2-way line)

Hoffman-Suzuki-Anderson (Scoring line)

Drouin-Evans/Poehling-Armia (cross your fingers and pray line)

Byron-Paquette-Evans/Poehling (good checking/energy line)

 

That leaves Caufield out of the lineup. He does not fir in the 4th line and he is not better than healthy Gallagher, Andersson or Armia. Not in the role those three players play

 

Caufield is NOT behind Hoffman and Anderson, and I’d even add Gallagher. He is a lock to start with Suzuki, and it’s his job to lose, if he regresses (which is possible given his age but not likely, given how he played in the playoffs. He looks ready. 

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

We’ll see, I hope you are right

 

If he is a legitimate top line NHL RW on a cup contending Habs team, TT should win a big bonus 

 

I am just reluctant to put all that expectation on him on his first 82 game season

[hab29RETIRED]

2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It seems to me that if you scratch Poehling and bump Armia to Line 4, you have ample room for Caufield. So one could argue that the Habs have an admirable level of competition for jobs between Byron/Paquette/Poehling -no real problem here in terms of “making room” for Bilbo or for any other legitimate top 6/top 9 FW.

looks like we lost Perry😡. Should have given him $3m over two years. Dumb. I’d rather have him over anyone we picked up. Perry, dressing room glue guy who will make help the young players get better, or is not a good trade off for Hoffman - signing a guy who has been a dressing room cancer for 4 years???
 

Given that loss, I think you the three starting lines ahoild be as follows:

Taffoli-Suzuki-Caufield 

Hoffman-KK-Gallagher 

Drouin-Evans-Anderson

 

The fourth line is some combo of:

Lekhonan-Poehling-Armia

 

Paquette platoons with, or is the safety net if Poehling is not ready.

 

byon needs to be moved. Maybe Drouin gets moved as well.

[GHT120]

2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

We’ll see, I hope you are right

 

If he is a legitimate top line NHL RW on a cup contending Habs team, TT should win a big bonus 

 

I am just reluctant to put all that expectation on him on his first 82 game season

With Hoffman, Toffoli, Anderson, Gallagher and Drouin also on the top 9 wings there isn't a ton of pressure ... if things don't click with early with Suzuki he can slide down to the 2nd/3rd line.

[Fanpuck33]

21 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

That leaves Caufield out of the lineup. He does not fir in the 4th line and he is not better than healthy Gallagher, Andersson or Armia. Not in the role those three players play

 

 

I'm a guy who loves Anderson and thinks he can be a 30 goal guy on the right line, but there is no player on the team who is a better option than Caufield to play wing the #1 scoring line. If last season was more than just a career year for Toffoli, then he's in the conversation.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

44 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

looks like we lost Perry😡. Should have given him $3m over two years. Dumb. I’d rather have him over anyone we picked up. Perry, dressing room glue guy who will make help the young players get better, or is not a good trade off for Hoffman - signing a guy who has been a dressing room cancer for 4 years???
 

 

Do we know what MB offered Perry? Was it less than Tampa? It would not surprise me at all if Perry chose Tampa over Montreal even if the offers were comparable. I love Perry, but I’m not sure I’d overpay for him; and it may not be mainly about the money for him at this point anyway.

 

And do we know that Hoffman has been a “dressing room cancer for four years?” All I know is that his crazy wife terrorized Karlsson’s wife a few years ago, haven’t heard anything since.

[hab29RETIRED]

55 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Do we know what MB offered Perry? Was it less than Tampa? It would not surprise me at all if Perry chose Tampa over Montreal even if the offers were comparable. I love Perry, but I’m not sure I’d overpay for him; and it may not be mainly about the money for him at this point anyway.

 

And do we know that Hoffman has been a “dressing room cancer for four years?” All I know is that his crazy wife terrorized Karlsson’s wife a few years ago, haven’t heard anything since.

Ott trades him to SJ, who wanted nothing to do with him and he was moved to Florida. The entire time he was there, he was in the trading block. Goes to St. Louis, and he’s back in the trading block. A team doesn’t keep moving a guy that is producing if there isn’t an issue. Could be him, could still be his wife, who knows, but he seems to wear out his welcome pretty quick.

[GHT120]

13 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Ott trades him to SJ, who wanted nothing to do with him and he was moved to Florida. The entire time he was there, he was in the trading block. Goes to St. Louis, and he’s back in the trading block. A team doesn’t keep moving a guy that is producing if there isn’t an issue. Could be him, could still be his wife, who knows, but he seems to wear out his welcome pretty quick.

I think SJS was just an "agent" for Florida ... Ottawa didn't want to trade him inside the Conference, or perhaps just not to be seen to be doing so, even as part of a formal three-team trade ... the flip was completed within a couple of hours ... not saying that SJS wanted him on their team (whether because of "the incident", just on-ice fit, or because they were already working on the Karlsson trade) ... but if SJS truly wanted nothing to do with him I doubt they even make the trade with Ottawa and risk being stuck with him ... never heard anything bad from Florida or St Louis.

[hab29RETIRED]

29 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

I think SJS was just an "agent" for Florida ... Ottawa didn't want to trade him inside the Conference, or perhaps just not to be seen to be doing so, even as part of a formal three-team trade ... the flip was completed within a couple of hours ... not saying that SJS wanted him on their team (whether because of "the incident", just on-ice fit, or because they were already working on the Karlsson trade) ... but if SJS truly wanted nothing to do with him I doubt they even make the trade with Ottawa and risk being stuck with him ... never heard anything bad from Florida or St Louis.

He was

in the trading block half way into the first year for both contracts.

[GHT120]

12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He was

in the trading block half way into the first year for both contracts.

Not certain what you mean ... his only trades were the two in one day that sent him from Ottawa to SJS and then on to Florida ... he was not traded by Florida or by the Blues ... Ottawa had no choice but to trade Hoffman as there was still the possibility that Karlsson would stay with them.

 

[hab29RETIRED]

36 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Not certain what you mean ... his only trades were the two in one day that sent him from Ottawa to SJS and then on to Florida ... he was not traded by Florida or by the Blues ... Ottawa had no choice but to trade Hoffman as there was still the possibility that Karlsson would stay with them.

 

All of the insiders (Friedman, Lebrun), have said that Hoffman was available during the last three deadlines. In his first year, Florida was trying to move him.

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

All of the insiders (Friedman, Lebrun), have said that Hoffman was available during the last three deadlines. In his first year, Florida was trying to move him.

Thanks ... but available does not mean he is a "problem" ... Hoffman's issues in Ottawa were what transpired between his girlfriend and Karlsson's wife ... haven't heard of anything else about her or about Hoffman himself being a problem of any sort ... and, given that Richardson coached him in the AHL, and was in the Sens organization for a couple of more years while Hoffman was in the NHL, and Burrows played with him for 20 games in 2016/17 and throughout 2017/18 I expect MB had a good handle on Hoffman's character.