Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, DON said: ? Wasn't cheering for a fight, just saw it as a distinct possibility considering the panthers dirty crap. I really wish fighting was banned. The same teams night after night watching the Habs. Let the trades begin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Wasn't cheering for a fight, just saw it as a distinct possibility considering the panthers dirty crap. I really wish fighting was banned. The same teams night after night watching the Habs. Let the trades begin I am not a huge fan of fighting but if you didn't have it guys who are chippy and dirty would be even worse. There would no accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 hours ago, DON said: ? Ahahahahaa, these two quotations capture the dilemma of fighting in a nutshell. We’re in a different era now - the post-goon era, where guys like WiFi and Deslauriers can actually play hockey. So that removes the phenomenon of fighting as a side-show, along with caricatures of the NHL as a bunch of thugs on skates. And there does *seem* to be something in the idea that having guys who can throw ‘em helps to establish some limited degree of accountability in a league where refs and the NHL cannot be trusted to protect players against vicious cheap shots and reckless plays. At the same time, we know enough about concussions, and enough about the sad realities of painkiller addiction and mental health issues that tough guys face as their career grinds on, to be concerned when we see guys bashing each others’ brains in. And yet, and yet…when WiFi clocks a guy, I’m hollering with enthusiasm like the rest of the punters. 😕 A question here: I have the idea that the number of fights is up this season after years of decline, but can’t find a source confirming or denying this. Anyone know the answer? (If there is an increase, I’m wondering about the correlation between the speed and skill of the game - currently at the highest level of my lifetime - and the rise in fights). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyrealist Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 58 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Ahahahahaa, these two quotations capture the dilemma of fighting in a nutshell. We’re in a different era now - the post-goon era, where guys like WiFi and Deslauriers can actually play hockey. So that removes the phenomenon of fighting as a side-show, along with caricatures of the NHL as a bunch of thugs on skates. And there does *seem* to be something in the idea that having guys who can throw ‘em helps to establish some limited degree of accountability in a league where refs and the NHL cannot be trusted to protect players against vicious cheap shots and reckless plays. At the same time, we know enough about concussions, and enough about the sad realities of painkiller addiction and mental health issues that tough guys face as their career grinds on, to be concerned when we see guys bashing each others’ brains in. And yet, and yet…when WiFi clocks a guy, I’m hollering with enthusiasm like the rest of the punters. 😕 A question here: I have the idea that the number of fights is up this season after years of decline, but can’t find a source confirming or denying this. Anyone know the answer? (If there is an increase, I’m wondering about the correlation between the speed and skill of the game - currently at the highest level of my lifetime - and the rise in fights). I’m intrigued by your question as well. I see your points too. regarding number of fights per season (mind you is a few years old now): https://www.hockeyfights.com/stats This article was decent after first read: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspor.2022.890429/full Most up to date numbers (just this season), but you’ll have to tally them yourself: https://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Wasn't cheering for a fight, just saw it as a distinct possibility considering the panthers dirty crap. I really wish fighting was banned. The same teams night after night watching the Habs. Let the trades begin I hate the discourse (not you, but in general, especially tweets like these) about scouts being at games. 15-20 scouts are at every single NHL game. Scouting is not something that starts a few weeks before the deadline and then trades are made. A scout doesn't watch a player 3 times and then a trade is made. Its constant. They are constantly updating files on every player in the league. There are also reasons to scout that don't involve trades. There is scouting the opponents system, pp, pk, etc... to attack it when you play against them. On top of that its the same names cause a guy like Andre Savard (And many on that list) doesn't live in New Jersey even though he works for the Devils. He lives in Montreal and goes to virtually every game. He's constantly scouting both the Habs and the opponents. Same in every NHL city. A bunch of pro scouts live in those cities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 21 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I would love to have 2 picks in the top 10 but I don't expect it anymore. I now think one in the top 6-8 and one in the 14-20 range. Unfortunately I don’t see Florida finishing that low. I think they will turn it around, with Barkov back. Their D is weaker than last year, but unless goaltending and coaching fail them, they should be able to get back into the wild card race. It would be nice though if the Maurice has a similar impact on them as his last couple of years in Winnipeg, or Bob continues with his yo-yo performance history and Knight doesn’t pick up the slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I hate the discourse (not you, but in general, especially tweets like these) about scouts being at games. 15-20 scouts are at every single NHL game. Scouting is not something that starts a few weeks before the deadline and then trades are made. A scout doesn't watch a player 3 times and then a trade is made. Its constant. They are constantly updating files on every player in the league. There are also reasons to scout that don't involve trades. There is scouting the opponents system, pp, pk, etc... to attack it when you play against them. On top of that its the same names cause a guy like Andre Savard (And many on that list) doesn't live in New Jersey even though he works for the Devils. He lives in Montreal and goes to virtually every game. He's constantly scouting both the Habs and the opponents. Same in every NHL city. A bunch of pro scouts live in those cities. That must be why it’s only Cowen that I see posting those lists. It would also explain why the three Donnelly brothers are always scouting Montreal 🤔 If nothing else it certainly fuels excitement about upcoming trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 hours ago, hockeyrealist said: I’m intrigued by your question as well. I see your points too. regarding number of fights per season (mind you is a few years old now): https://www.hockeyfights.com/stats This article was decent after first read: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspor.2022.890429/full Most up to date numbers (just this season), but you’ll have to tally them yourself: https://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/teams Thanks! Intriguing stuff. “There was an inverse correlation between goals per game and fights per game that reached statistical significance (R = −0.521, p = 0.0222).” So much for any idea that high-scoring, high-pace hockey somehow generates more fights. The Habs have the 4th most fights this season, so that’s where my impression that fights are up is coming from. Commandant will no doubt be pleased to note that the top-5 fighting teams largely blow chunks. This is suggestive of the notion that fighting is a recourse of losers - although Tampa, the Bruins, and Minnesota are in the top 10, so maybe we shouldn’t infer too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Thanks! Intriguing stuff. “There was an inverse correlation between goals per game and fights per game that reached statistical significance (R = −0.521, p = 0.0222).” So much for any idea that high-scoring, high-pace hockey somehow generates more fights. The Habs have the 4th most fights this season, so that’s where my impression that fights are up is coming from. Commandant will no doubt be pleased to note that the top-5 fighting teams largely blow chunks. This is suggestive of the notion that fighting is a recourse of losers - although Tampa, the Bruins, and Minnesota are in the top 10, so maybe we shouldn’t infer too much. The correlation between fighting and winning is pretty much 0. Meaning it has no effect. Winning teams don't fight more or less than losing teams. You will always find both winners and losers amongst the tops in the fighting metric. Which is actually more meaningful to me than saying losing teams fight more. it indicates that fights are meaningless, they do nothing. So why have a fourth line goon instead of someone who can actually play hockey. Note that I have no issue with xhekaj as a third pairing d. While i have questions about his upside, he's played well enough to get third pair minutes. Someone like Pezzetta on the other hand? He's a scrub and as much as I don't particularly like Pitlick, I'd rather have Pitlick (or Anthony Richard) on our roster than Pezzetta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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