Summer 2023 Off-season

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The interesting thing about ‘Suitcase’ Domi is that his career has almost entirely been on crap teams. 

 

This fits the profile of player he is - a limited player who brings some jam and some offence, but lacks the high-end skills, and complete game, that could win him a regular role on a strong club. I see him as a prototypical ‘expansion team’ guy.

 

Now he has signed with a really strong club. While he will surely get a nice long look there because of his parentage, my guess is that he’ll gradually find himself on the outs.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

7 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

That 72 point season was a true outlier ... almost 40% above his next best.

 

Domi had decent production in Chicago last season (18goals/60games) but only had 2g in 20gms after being traded to Dallas (8/82 pace) ... same story as the previous year when he scored 2 in 19 after being traded to Carolina (although he had been no better with CBJ) ... so it may not be a question of talent but it is a question of production.

 

He did have a pretty decent playoff last year (13pts in 19 games), has averaged .63pts/game in his career so I think teams know what they are getting production wise. I think he is one of those guys who hasn't been quite consistent enough to play the top 6 but costs too much to play the bottom 6. I think his defensive play has been questioned at times. 

[GHT120]

9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... has averaged .63pts/game in his career ...

 

.59 if his outlier season is removed ... .42 if you exclude his rookie season ... .34 if you exclude his career high TOI with Chicago last season ... so the other 60+% of his career is pretty ordinary.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

.59 if his outlier season is removed ... .42 if you exclude his rookie season ... .34 if you exclude his career high TOI with Chicago last season ... so the other 60+% of his career is pretty ordinary.

 

You are picking and choosing a bit here, I am sure if I excluded his 3 worst seasons than it would be higher than .63

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

You are picking and choosing a bit here, I am sure if I excluded his 3 worst seasons than it would be higher than .63

 

True ... but the .34 reflects the majority of his career ... and even excluding the outlier drops him significantly ... that one season created (IMO) unrealistic expectations for Domi; much like Galchenyuk's 30 goal season in what was a lost season in 15/16.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

True ... but the .34 reflects the majority of his career ... 

 

You are eliminating 3 of his 8 seasons to make your point. He had 49 points in 60 games last year playing on a terrible team. I think that's pretty good production and his most recent. 

[GHT120]

Just now, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

You are eliminating 3 of his 8 seasons to make your point. He had 49 points in 60 games last year playing on a terrible team. I think that's pretty good production and his most recent. 

 

On the worst offensive team in the NHL, and therefore likely allowed to focus solely on scoring ... that won't be the same on TO ... but its OK if we disagree.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 minute ago, GHT120 said:

On the worst offensive team in the NHL, and therefore likely allowed to focus solely on scoring ... that won't be the same on TO ... but its OK if we disagree.

 

I think we have covered this one enough.  LOL

[GHT120]

2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I think we have covered this one enough.  LOL

 

Agreed.

[tomh009]

I will say that turning Galchenyuk into Anderson (via Domi) was some astute trading by Bergevin, the Habs came out as solid winners from that sequence.

[ch_nl]

A few seasons ago I really felt that the Habs were only missing a few key pieces to be a legit contender.

 

At that point Gallagher was in his prime and Price was the best goaltender in the leauge. 
 

Mac Pac was healthy and scoring a lot. Markov, Weber and Petry was next-to-Norris.

 

Then came the Kotkaniemi and later Hoffman. And the pool of prospects looked shallow. 

 

Today and after the draft, my hopes are high again. There are still some dead weight on the roster, but I haven’t been this hopefull on the prospects since I started to follow the Habs in 1992.

 

Also some of the players that is core has not yet entered their prime. And Montembeault that came in from the side is looking more like a legit no. 1 keeper.

 

I don’t expect anything from next season but progress on most prospects.

 

Whit that said, I think the future looks bright!

[GHT120]

Los Angeles Kings sign captain Anze Kopitar to a two-year, $14 million extension | TSN

 

Danault is the 3rd highest paid centre on the Kings for the foreseeable future ... not certain PLD or Kopitar is likely to be moved to the wing ... Phil supposedly left Montreal, in part, because he didn't want to end up as the 3C ... it will be interesting to see how it works out this season in LaLaLand.

[Neech]

36 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Los Angeles Kings sign captain Anze Kopitar to a two-year, $14 million extension | TSN

 

Danault is the 3rd highest paid centre on the Kings for the foreseeable future ... not certain PLD or Kopitar is likely to be moved to the wing ... Phil supposedly left Montreal, in part, because he didn't want to end up as the 3C ... it will be interesting to see how it works out this season in LaLaLand.

Bergy always undervalued Danault, wouldn't be surprised if they traded him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

9 hours ago, Neech said:

Bergy always undervalued Danault, wouldn't be surprised if they traded him.

 

Well, let’s not forget that Bergevin also went out and acquired Danault in the first place, having identified him as promising from his Chicago days. And also, a lot of people on this board - including me, if I remember right - opposed the idea of MB breaking the bank to lock him up. We had KK on the team and it was reasonable to think he’d be able to grow into Danault’s role. 

 

Unfortunately, KK then got offer-shat, so we managed to lose both him and Danault, and had to ship out picks to get that putz Dvorak.

 

And if KK’s Carolina follies are any indication, he has NOT grown to be able to handle tough minutes. Meanwhile, Danault used the Run of 21 to establish himself as one of the league’s top checking two-way C and has never looked back. Bah.

[DON]

Harris seems very interesting young fella, how good will he be this year?

Kinda agree with this guy, seems undervalued by many.  

https://montrealhockeynow.com/2023/07/06/canadiens-mailbag-dev-camp-standouts-contending-trade-options-rumours-habs-hutson-reinbacher-hoffman/

 

"Here’s my hot take: Jordan Harris will emerge as the best defenceman not named Mike Matheson.

 

Actually, statistically speaking, that’s already the case, but it takes a while for people to catch on. A small part of me dies whenever Habs fans casually toss Harris into hypothetical trade scenarios as a throw-in."

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I find it hard to know what to make of all the Habs’ kids on D. 🤷‍♂️ Overall, they looked pretty good, but the sample size is small.

 

Harris impressed, but if memory serves, he was sometimes overmatched down low. I can see him evolving into a Dan Hamhuis type, sort of a roving, non-physical, smart defender who can slot in the second pairing no problem. I can also see him spending his career burbling away as a #5 who never quite cracks the top-4, like a cerebral version of Josh Gorges.

 

But he does seem an unusually bright and thoughtful kid. Smarts help.

 

Guhle has top-pairing potential, but will he fulfill it? 44 games is not enough to afford confidence.

 

WiFi could be the second coming of Kevin Bieksa, or he could end up as a marginal player, or somewhere between the two. The fact that he got hurt in a fight in troubling.

 

Kovacevik was steady but ultimately leaves me cold…I see him as a Peter Popovic type, a guy who will tend to be superseded once the team gets good.

 

And Barron, he looked good when he came up after marinading properly in the minors, but again, 1/3 of a season does not a career make.

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see which of these guys takes a step forward this season, and who falls back. I certainly wouldn’t bet against Harris being in the former category.

 

 

[tomh009]

22 minutes ago, DON said:

"Here’s my hot take: Jordan Harris will emerge as the best defenceman not named Mike Matheson.

 

Actually, statistically speaking, that’s already the case, but it takes a while for people to catch on. A small part of me dies whenever Habs fans casually toss Harris into hypothetical trade scenarios as a throw-in."

I expect that Hughes understands the value of Harris, so while some fans may be ready to throw him into a trade, it's not likely to actually happen.

 

But there are more solid LHD prospects (Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Engstrom, Norlinder, Struble, Trudeau) than there are roster spots, even not counting Matheson, so it's likely someone will be traded by next summer, I think. But assuming continued growth, that trade should bring back real value to the Habs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 minute ago, tomh009 said:

I expect that Hughes understands the value of Harris, so while some fans may be ready to throw him into a trade, it's not likely to actually happen.

 

But there are more solid LHD prospects (Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Engstrom, Norlinder, Struble, Trudeau) than there are roster spots, even not counting Matheson, so it's likely someone will be traded by next summer, I think. But assuming continued growth, that trade should bring back real value to the Habs.

 

It would be very exciting to - for once - be in a position where a surplus of prospects means trading from a position of strength. 

[alfredoh2009]

11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I find it hard to know what to make of all the Habs’ kids on D. 🤷‍♂️ Overall, they looked pretty good, but the sample size is small.

 

Harris impressed, but if memory serves, he was sometimes overmatched down low. I can see him evolving into a Dan Hamhuis type, sort of a roving, non-physical, smart defender who can slot in the second pairing no problem. I can also see him spending his career burbling away as a #5 who never quite cracks the top-4, like a cerebral version of Josh Gorges.

 

But he does seem an unusually bright and thoughtful kid. Smarts help.

 

Guhle has top-pairing potential, but will he fulfill it? 44 games is not enough to afford confidence.

 

WiFi could be the second coming of Kevin Bieksa, or he could end up as a marginal player, or somewhere between the two. The fact that he got hurt in a fight in troubling.

 

Kovacevik was steady but ultimately leaves me cold…I see him as a Peter Popovic type, a guy who will tend to be superseded once the team gets good.

 

And Barron, he looked good when he came up after marinading properly in the minors, but again, 1/3 of a season does not a career make.

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see which of these guys takes a step forward this season, and who falls back. I certainly wouldn’t bet against Harris being in the former category.

 

 

that's my read on D too. I think Harris is a smart D with lots of potential but that may loose his spot to Hutson, for example, if Hutson becomes the player he is projected to be.

[GHT120]

53 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I expect that Hughes understands the value of Harris, so while some fans may be ready to throw him into a trade, it's not likely to actually happen.

 

But there are more solid LHD prospects (Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Engstrom, Norlinder, Struble, Trudeau) than there are roster spots, even not counting Matheson, so it's likely someone will be traded by next summer, I think. But assuming continued growth, that trade should bring back real value to the Habs.

Are we still including Norlinder in that group as a legit prospect?

[DON]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

I expect that Hughes understands the value of Harris, so while some fans may be ready to throw him into a trade, it's not likely to actually happen.

 

But there are more solid LHD prospects (Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj, Engstrom, Norlinder, Struble, Trudeau) than there are roster spots, even not counting Matheson, so it's likely someone will be traded by next summer, I think. But assuming continued growth, that trade should bring back real value to the Habs.

Norlinder-Struble not too solid and doubt will be NHLers. So i would not factor them into equation, or be difference maker (3rd pairing at best). Maybe Struble will surprise in Laval this year, i have low expectations.

Norlinder isnt a real NHL prospect anymore ...is he?

 

But agree, long term is abundance of LH-d to consider.

[tomh009]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Are we still including Norlinder in that group as a legit prospect?

I think he's unlikely to be a top-four D, but his second AHL season should tell us whether he can still turn into an NHL player.

 

And I forgot to include Hutson in that list! 😮

 

Guhle

Harris

Xhekaj

Hutson

Engstrom

Norlinder

Struble

Trudeau

[DON]

Trudeau did well in AHL they said, but still likley a long shot i assume, especially given depth.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Trudeau did well in AHL they said, but still likley a long shot i assume, especially given depth.

Wasn’t Trudeau really slow when drafted?

If I remember correctly his skating was not great 

He may be fast enough for the NHL but unless he has improved a lot he may never graduate 

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, DON said:

Trudeau did well in AHL they said, but still likley a long shot i assume, especially given depth.

 

I agree that he seems a longshot to crack the top 6 at the moment ... but a 7D in the NHL makes at least the NHL minimum ($775K as of this coming season) ... not many can do better in other leagues or away from hockey.