GDT Game #23 - Montréal vs New York, New York - Saturday November 30th - 1 pm

[Butterface]

If those chips could measure heart, Anderson’s would have outgrown the Grinch today…..either way the last several games Anderson has shown more spark. Certainly since the Washington game, where he announced his presence with authority to Wilson, he has been more worthy of that big body. If he can do the type of work he did today until he is traded, I’ll stop bitching about him. Now he just needs to drive the net more than once a game and points should follow. Admiration of the fans will follow too. Xhekaj will thank him too because Xhekaj won’t need to ice his fists after every game and our defence won’t have to absorb Xhekaj’s minutes while the Sheriff sits in the box.

 

 

[Commandant]

None of that is measured by a chip.

 

The game score is a measure of the number (and quality) of scoring chances that occured (at both ends) while the player was on the ice.

 

So sure Anderson threw some hits, had a nice fight, etc.... but none of it really contributed to generating scoring chances (though he didnt give up many either).

 

The chips measure speed, shot speed, movements on the ice, etc... but arent part of these stats.

[Butterface]

6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

None of that is measured by a chip.

 

The game score is a measure of the number (and quality) of scoring chances that occured (at both ends) while the player was on the ice.

 

So sure Anderson threw some hits, had a nice fight, etc.... but none of it really contributed to generating scoring chances (though he didnt give up many either).

 

The chips measure speed, shot speed, movements on the ice, etc... but arent part of these stats.

Cool. How do they measure the competition you played with and against … would they not need to know who you were on the ice with and against ? 

[Butterface]

The emojis at the end of the sentence meant I understood the chip wasn’t evaluating that part in the Game Score outcome… I was sarcastically saying his chip malfunctioned. The grinch might have given that away too.

 

But those chips take data from all players you’re on the ice against and with too, correct ?

 

Can you combine these scores somewhere across the league and evaluate who the best player in the league is with this type of stat ?

[Commandant]

23 minutes ago, Butterface said:

Cool. How do they measure the competition you played with and against … would they not need to know who you were on the ice with and against ? 

 

Yes but weve measured who is on and off the ice for decades.  Just think about plus/minus.  

 

There are official scorekeepers in every rink who mark when people go on and off the ice.  Others are measuring shots by who, and how far from the net.  

 

This has been done manually for a long time.  Chips right now are mostly for speed of skating, shot, etc... though the positioning on it may be added too, to make it more precise.

[Commandant]

14 minutes ago, Butterface said:

The emojis at the end of the sentence meant I understood the chip wasn’t evaluating that part in the Game Score outcome… I was sarcastically saying his chip malfunctioned. The grinch might have given that away too.

 

But those chips take data from all players you’re on the ice against and with too, correct ?

 

Can you combine these scores somewhere across the league and evaluate who the best player in the league is with this type of stat ?

 

Stats provide context.  They help with analysis.  They are never the be all and end all.... but they are valuable when properly combined with the eye test.

[Butterface]

4 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Yes but weve measured who is on and off the ice for decades.  Just think about plus/minus.  

 

There are official scorekeepers in every rink who mark when people go on and off the ice.  Others are measuring shots by who, and how far from the net.  

 

This has been done manually for a long time.  Chips right now are mostly for speed of skating, shot, etc... though the positioning on it may be added too, to make it more precise.

 

I can understand stat guys for hits etc…. But these chips don’t give real time analysis of who is on and not on the ice ? That must be hard with the speed of the game for the stats guys.

 

[Butterface]

Quality of Competition and Quality of Teammates is not part of the chip ? It’s a stat guy at the rink ? 

[Commandant]

Just now, Butterface said:

 

I can understand stat guys for hits etc…. But these chips don’t give real time analysis of who in on and not on the ice ? That must be hard with the speed of the game for the stats guys.

 

 

You have multiple guys.  Each is focused on a different thing.  One will do line changes for home.  One will do line changes away.  One does shots on goal (and shot attempts, blocked shots).  One will do hits.

 

By lining up all.the charts you get what is on nhl.com

 

The chips will eventually take over most of this but they have tracked all these things for a long time manually. 

 

Stat cards like the one posted have been available for a long time.

 

Advanced stats like corsi, fenwick and others that rely on knowing who is on or off the ice were being developped prior to.the 2004-05 lockout and became popular shortly after.

 

The chips might open up more data and more accurate.  Thats the hope.  Its still in testing and early stages right now.  In 5 years or so we should have even more data than we have now.

[Butterface]

Just now, Commandant said:

 

You have multiple guys.  Each is focused on a different thing.  One will do line changes for home.  One will do line changes away.  One does shots on goal (and shot attempts, blocked shots).  One will do hits.

 

By lining up all.the charts you get what is on nhl.com

 

The chips will eventually take over most of this but they have tracked all these things for a long time manually. 

 

Stat cards like the one posted have been available for a long time.

 

Advanced stats like corsi, fenwick and others that rely on knowing who is on or off the ice were being developped prior to.the 2004-05 lockout and became popular shortly after.

 

The chips might open up more data and more accurate.  Thats the hope.  Its still in testing and early stages right now.  In 5 years or so we should have even more data than we have now.

Thanks. Cool stuff. I’ll look on NHL.com

[Commandant]

2 minutes ago, Butterface said:

Quality of Competition and Quality of Teammates is not part of the chip ? It’s a stat guy at the rink ? 

 

Its matching up the shift charts with time on clock Weve had these stats for 20 years.

 

Time on ice is calculated from the shift charts. 

[Butterface]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

Its matching up the shift charts with time on clock Weve had these stats for 20 years.

 

Time on ice is calculated from the shift charts. 

is this a lot more complex than a chip combined with rfid ?

[Commandant]

4 minutes ago, Butterface said:

is this a lot more complex than a chip combined with rfid ?

 

Right now they are running both the scorekeepers and the chips.  They want to make sure the chips are accurate before getting rid of the human element 

 

Other things will still be tough for the chips to measure... whats a giveaway/takeaway and whats a dump in? Whats just a zone clearance and what is a giveaway? Stuff like that will need a human even if the chips are working perfectly.

 

Whats a shot attempt that missed the net and what is a hard pass to a guy near the net that goes wide?

 

Lots of stuff with interpretations that chips cant do.

[Butterface]

3 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Right now they are running both the scorekeepers and the chips.  They want to make sure the chips are accurate before getting rid of the human element 

 

Other things will still be tough for the chips to measure... whats a giveaway/takeaway and whats a dump in? Whats just a zone clearance and what is a giveaway? Stuff like that will need a human even if the chips are working perfectly.

Thanks… I honestly thought those chips were using gps or rfid … I thought that they were tracking to know who was on the ice…. I can’t believe how quick those stat cards come out now.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

0 for 3 on the PP vs 3 for 6 for NYR

 

the difference in this game.

 

Next step is to get a freakin left handed one timer on Hutson's right to feed one timers too, if he his to remain on 1st unit. 

Get Slav or Newhook on the right boards and move Dach in front of net. no brainer stuff

[BCHabnut]

The missed call on the armia trip was brutal. Armia blatantly tripped in a puck battle along the wall. Puck goes to point. Two quick passes to kakko and in the net. Armia was still trying to get back in the play after being tripped. That trip won them the game.

[alfredoh2009]

On 11/30/2024 at 12:49 PM, Butterface said:

Why stop at Kreider… Trouba is due too. Those festivities will only happen if the game goes off-kilter. I don’t think that’s what anyone wants Xhekaj to have to do. I’d rather him concentrate on his own defensive responsibilities. Improve his fundamentals. But yeah, if 💩 hits the fan…. why not announce your presence with authority. 

 

didn't he say that just before Cash told the batter a fastball was coming and he hit it out of the park?

 

I want Xhekaj to learn how to be an SOB around the net more than around the boards, so that he is not out of position. I also want him to be a pain for the opposing forwards after each whistle but to be disciplined and not get a penalty. I also want him to close the gap on forwards speeding down the wings and to time a great body check if he is still far from his blue line 9again to not be caught out of position)

 

I do not know how this translate to a defensive system. But I know this would make WiFi a better defenseman

[BCHabnut]

3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

didn't he say that just before Cash told the batter a fastball was coming and he hit it out of the park?

 

I want Xhekaj to learn how to be an SOB around the net more than around the boards, so that he is not out of position. I also want him to be a pain for the opposing forwards after each whistle but to be disciplined and not get a penalty. I also want him to close the gap on forwards speeding down the wings and to time a great body check if he is still far from his blue line 9again to not be caught out of position)

 

I do not know how this translate to a defensive system. But I know this would make WiFi a better defenseman

Is he even an NHLer at this point? Struble and Engstrom are gonna pass him on the depth chart soon if he doesn't refind his game. Keeping a player in because he likes punching people in the face confuses me.

[Butterface]

2 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

didn't he say that just before Cash told the batter a fastball was coming and he hit it out of the park?

 

I want Xhekaj to learn how to be an SOB around the net more than around the boards, so that he is not out of position. I also want him to be a pain for the opposing forwards after each whistle but to be disciplined and not get a penalty. I also want him to close the gap on forwards speeding down the wings and to time a great body check if he is still far from his blue line 9again to not be caught out of position)

 

I do not know how this translate to a defensive system. But I know this would make WiFi a better defenseman

"Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."
 

That’s the part.. then he hits it out of the park.

 

We can’t pay all our defensemen $6,000,000 so we need to have guys that help us in other ways, but also play decent defence. I’m hoping Xhehaj can be solid back there and lay down the law like a sheriff. But be paid on a budget that lets us keep him.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, Butterface said:

"Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."
 

That’s the part.. then he hits it out of the park.

 

We can’t pay all our defensemen $6,000,000 so we need to have guys that help us in other ways, but also play decent defence. I’m hoping Xhehaj can be solid back there and lay down the law like a sheriff. But be paid on a budget that lets us keep him.

same here

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Is he even an NHLer at this point? Struble and Engstrom are gonna pass him on the depth chart soon if he doesn't refind his game. Keeping a player in because he likes punching people in the face confuses me.

 

IMHO he is more than a goon. He is a physical stay at home defenseman with a very good slap shot

[Butterface]

13 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

IMHO he is more than a goon. He is a physical stay at home defenseman with a very good slap shot

I like his personality. But if he plays poor defence all the personality in the world won’t prevent guys from passing him on the depth chart. His intangibles (personality, willingness to sacrifice his body (he tried to block a shot just before the winning goal last night with the top of his head), his loyalty to team mates, his big shot) are all positives. Let’s hope he survives the next wave of young defensemen. I want him to. Sometimes a player might even make the team because he fits under their cap. Pun intended, he might be a good bang for the buck.

[Butterface]

I like to think Xhekaj and Anderson played rock paper scissors before the game to determine who got to thump Trouba for his unnecessary, injury-giving hit.

 

 

[DON]

36 minutes ago, Butterface said:

 Trouba for his unnecessary, injury-giving hit.

Unnecessary?

What does that mean, if it was a Hab who rocked Marchard, am 100% sure we would be fine with it. Wont be last time Barron takes hit like this, if dosent learn to keep head up better.

Appeared to be a clean hit, wasnt it?

https://youtu.be/7eYLth2VTzk

 

[GHT120]

8 minutes ago, DON said:

Unnecessary?

What does that mean, if it was a Hab who rocked Marchard, am 100% sure we would be fine with it. Wont be last time Barron takes hit like this, if dosent learn to keep head up better.

Appeared to be a clean hit, wasnt it?

https://youtu.be/7eYLth2VTzk

 

If there was contact with the body it was (at best) at the same time as the contact with the head ... rightly or wrongly, retaliation has been sought for MUCH cleaner hits.