Koivu & Higgins need help!

[TruthMonger]

Why is it up to Ryder to make Koivu productive? I thought it was the other way around.

All Koivu can do for Ryder is make the tape-to-tape pass to give him a chance at an empty net one-timer. And he does that. Koivu, no matter how hard he may try, just isn't fast enough to then skate over to Ryder and push his stick forward at the right time to complete the play. Koivu is, and always has been a playMAKER. He needs to paired with good finishers. Higgins has slowed of late but but had generally done the job. Ryder has not converted his chances, as evidenced by his 8% shooting.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

All Koivu can do for Ryder is make the tape-to-tape pass to give him a chance at an empty net one-timer. And he does that. Koivu, no matter how hard he may try, just isn't fast enough to then skate over to Ryder and push his stick forward at the right time to complete the play. Koivu is, and always has been a playMAKER. He needs to paired with good finishers. Higgins has slowed of late but but had generally done the job. Ryder has not converted his chances, as evidenced by his 8% shooting.

No kidding. There is a guy out there that is going to gel with Saks. He may be on the team and we just haven't seen it yet, or Gainey is working on bringing him in.

I can't wait for Koivu to get going.......which he will.

If for some reason we are not able to trade Ryder this year, I can't help but feel he will get out of his funk soon. If he scores in bunches, he still has plenty of time to redeem himself. Starting TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

COME ON RYDER............SNAP THE F*%^K OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Habsfan84]

The thing about trading Ryder is that you are not going to get much for him unless he starts to play better. I still have a feeling that Ryder will snap out of it. Maybe i'm just optimistic.

[bar]

From my view of Ryder, is when he gets the puck he's always in a bad position. I'm not an hockey analyst so I cannot say if thats because his positioning or others.

When he's on the power play he seems to take the spot Kovy would do, but thats not his strength. His puck handling while not terrible, isn't Koveyesque either. My post is bias because I like the guy, I have a lot of respect for someone beating the odds and working his way up the NHL from the depths of the ECHL.

The problem is (in my mind), is that when he does get a chance, and shoots it gets blocked by the defencemans legs, he needs to move to the slot more and let Koivu/Higgins set him up, as that is their game not his.

Someone mentioned Koivus tape to tape passes all the time? I disagree, this year the whole line hasn't been clicking. We're in 4th place why the need to trade someone who has proved the last two years they were 30 goal scorer.

[tokyohabs]

I've always thought that Ryder is a below mediocre player with very little hockey sense, but with a shot quick and hard enough to stay in the NHL.

The shot ain't working anymore, which only brings his many other deficiencies into greater relief. As much as I am not sold on Koivu's greatness ('He tied a game! Retire his number!'), and do feel he has to step up his play, Ryder moving would in no way be a detriment to the team. An older vet rental makes perfect sense, as Ryder, being a UFA, is like a rental gone wrong anyway.

I respect his long, hard fight to the bigs, but there are many stories like that around, and sentimentality is cheap when looking at the facts (not a dig at Koivu, btw).

[brobin]

All Koivu can do for Ryder is make the tape-to-tape pass to give him a chance at an empty net one-timer. And he does that. Koivu, no matter how hard he may try, just isn't fast enough to then skate over to Ryder and push his stick forward at the right time to complete the play. Koivu is, and always has been a playMAKER. He needs to paired with good finishers. Higgins has slowed of late but but had generally done the job. Ryder has not converted his chances, as evidenced by his 8% shooting.

I don't intend to defend Ryder, he is struggling, but I do disagree that Koivu is setting him up with nice passes. Koivu's passes have been brutal this year. I can't remember the last time I say Koivu put it on the tape for Ryder to make a one timer. Most of Ryder's shots are when he comes off the boards and tries to deke or snap it past the defender.

Higgins has also been making many of his own chances. If you go back to last year, Koivu was setting them both up about 5 times each a night.. This year a decent pass to them is a rare sight. If he gets it through, it is in the skates.

There is a reason that no one has been able to mesh with Koivu this year, and a large part of it is Koivu.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I've always thought that Ryder is a below mediocre player with very little hockey sense, but with a shot quick and hard enough to stay in the NHL.

The shot ain't working anymore, which only brings his many other deficiencies into greater relief. As much as I am not sold on Koivu's greatness ('He tied a game! Retire his number!'), and do feel he has to step up his play, Ryder moving would in no way be a detriment to the team. An older vet rental makes perfect sense, as Ryder, being a UFA, is like a rental gone wrong anyway.

I respect his long, hard fight to the bigs, but there are many stories like that around, and sentimentality is cheap when looking at the facts (not a dig at Koivu, btw).

I always thought it was that and his determination. That is what seems to be missing. His effort the last couple of seasons really outweighed his skill deficiencies. This year he is missing that trait. He is giving up on plays in the offensive zone where his second effort could win the puck back. Then he needs to be patient with his shots. That is howt our top line or "2nd" as they are politicaly known are getting it done.

While playing on the 3rd line Mikey seemed to be playing better. How much of it is the pressure to excell with Koivu? He isn't that caliper naturally so it must be hard when things aren't working. Too bad that line all seem so frustrated. They would be such a threat now that the Pleks line draws the top checkers. If they get it together, and Mikey gets 15 down the stretch, Saku puts up 40 points, and Higgins chips in 10 goals 30 points, we would not need a trade at all. There history and previous stats say it is possible and and sure would be nice. I though am just not seeing it happen, thus I get trade thoughts in my head, as does Gainey I am sure. Thing is we want to keep all the good we have.

I personally really miss the determined, confident Mike Ryder. Especially when our net is empty, face off in their zone, 1:15 left down by one or even two. Kovy, Saku ,Higgins and Mikey had a thing going last season that was working. PP and 2 minute drill they were the squad. Like to have those glazed eyes back on his face. He was a finisher, c'mon Newf, getter done. He needs to bring the determination back. That's all that is missing.

Edited January 31, 2008 by johnnyhasbeen

[Habsfan]

KNowing what we know about Ryder(streaky scorer), i wouldn't be surprised if he were to finish the season with 24-25 goals. He could go on a tear and score 7 goals in 10 games, then go 6 game swithout a goal and then score another 6 goals in 8 games.

What I'm worried about is that he doesn't seem to care all that much. Jezus freaknig christ! The guy is in the FINAL year of his contract. This is his chance to sign a big, long term contract, and what does he do? He sucks big time! That's what he does in the final year of his contract! I just don't get it with this guy!

WAKE UP YOU BIG DUMMY!!!

[Wamsley01]

I don't intend to defend Ryder, he is struggling, but I do disagree that Koivu is setting him up with nice passes. Koivu's passes have been brutal this year. I can't remember the last time I say Koivu put it on the tape for Ryder to make a one timer. Most of Ryder's shots are when he comes off the boards and tries to deke or snap it past the defender.

Higgins has also been making many of his own chances. If you go back to last year, Koivu was setting them both up about 5 times each a night.. This year a decent pass to them is a rare sight. If he gets it through, it is in the skates.

There is a reason that no one has been able to mesh with Koivu this year, and a large part of it is Koivu.

I agree, I don't recall many times this year where Ryder has blown a great opportunity handed on a plate.

Most of his chances are created from his one toe drag move.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree, I don't recall many times this year where Ryder has blown a great opportunity handed on a plate.

Most of his chances are created from his one toe drag move.

The guy who's blown innumerable chances (many generated by Koivu) has been Higgins. He was flying at the start of the season and missing chance after chance. I was worried that this would eat at his confidence, and the past two months seems to have borne that out. He's not as noticeable out there, and he still misses lots of chances.

In his case youth plays are part - players often talk about how the game 'slows down' for them after a few seasons. Higgins (like Lats) has fallen into the trap of always rushing the shot, not grabbing that extra half-second to make sure it's a good shot. Hopefully he'll grow into a confident 30-goal scorer eventually. (Or else he settle back into a semi-checking, 2nd-line role).

But what about Ryder? Beats me, but I think confidence has to be the key - you'd sure think that a guy who worked his way into the NHL from nowhere understands that he can't take things for granted.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

I agree, I don't recall many times this year where Ryder has blown a great opportunity handed on a plate.

Most of his chances are created from his one toe drag move.

Open your eyes! and add Higgins to the list.

[peihabs]

Open your eyes! and add Higgins to the list. If you mean adding Higgins to the trade list that would me the biggest mistake we've made since trading Leclair, actually it would be alot bigger mistake then that. Higgins will be one of the top 10 forwards in the league very shortly, I can't wait for this guy to show his stuff when the play-offs start without Ryder on his line.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

No, Never would I suggest trading Higgins. I meant add him to the list of players Saku has fed a pass, and they keep blowing it by not scoring. Not that Saku has been brilliant, but Higgins and Ryder have been pretty shite of late.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

No, Never would I suggest trading Higgins. I meant add him to the list of players Saku has fed a pass, and they keep blowing it by not scoring. Not that Saku has been brilliant, but Higgins and Ryder have been pretty shite of late.

Higgins gets a pass (no pun intended) due to youth IMHO. Ryder might not be that much older, but he's scored 30 goals three years running and brings nothing BUT goal scoring - plus you know he's never going to get any better, really - so he's measured according to different critieria.

When you think about it, the decline of Koivu's passing game in recent months may owe something to a lack of confidence in his linemates, leading to a loss of faith in his own instincts. You know how it goes...after a while, players start to second-guess each other and themselves, and it becomes a downward spiral. Then again, Koivu is 33 years old and a seasoned veteran, so he doesn't need us to make excuses.

[Wamsley01]

Higgins gets a pass (no pun intended) due to youth IMHO. Ryder might not be that much older, but he's scored 30 goals three years running and brings nothing BUT goal scoring - plus you know he's never going to get any better, really - so he's measured according to different critieria.

When you think about it, the decline of Koivu's passing game in recent months may owe something to a lack of confidence in his linemates, leading to a loss of faith in his own instincts. You know how it goes...after a while, players start to second-guess each other and themselves, and it becomes a downward spiral. Then again, Koivu is 33 years old and a seasoned veteran, so he doesn't need us to make excuses.

I have opened my eyes, and like the Cucumber said it has been Higgins missing tons of chances. Early in the season he could have had 5-10 extra goals.

But Ryder has been invisible on most nights, so missed gimme goals created by Koivu would most likely have been noticed.

But those chances have dried up for both of them. If the youth had not stepped up this season then the Habs would be in 13-14th place in the standings.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Wamsley01

[BTH]

We're basically tied for 3rd in the NHL without a single threat on the 1st line. When these guys start to pick it up, we will be a very tough team to beat as it gives us that many more weapons. Right now, teams focus on the Kovalev line, and any other scoring we get is a bonus. But if we could have both of our top 2 lines scoring, our opponents wouldn't know which of our top 2 lines to try shutting down. It's especially important in the playoffs where just about every team will have one line that's assigned to be the checkers for the entire run.

[Wamsley01]

We're basically tied for 3rd in the NHL without a single threat on the 1st line. When these guys start to pick it up, we will be a very tough team to beat as it gives us that many more weapons. Right now, teams focus on the Kovalev line, and any other scoring we get is a bonus. But if we could have both of our top 2 lines scoring, our opponents wouldn't know which of our top 2 lines to try shutting down. It's especially important in the playoffs where just about every team will have one line that's assigned to be the checkers for the entire run.

Well, come playoffs they will key on the Kovy line. The Begin line will be the shutdown unit and anything Laps/Kosty/Lats give them is a bonus.

So there success will depend on the Koivu line stepping up and making the difference.

I think this season will be the beginning of the learning curve as to what it will take to reach the next level for the kids.

[Habsfan]

They should bench Ryder for a few more games. Get Dandenault in on Ryder's spot. I don'T see how Dandy could do a worse job? Get Ryder away from koivu and higgins for as long as possible.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

I agree with all three of the last posts. We all, like Carbo, keep hoping our 1st line will snap out of it AND WHEN THEY DO....LOOK OUT. I think they will., but man it's getting painful. Saks looks frustrated.......Higgins looks like the bad Zednik after the infamous Mclaren hit, and friggin Ryder looks "happy as shit just to be a part of the organization!" and he's sucking A$$ in the final year of his contract........What friggin gives? What's going to wake these guys up?

A spanking?

Edited February 1, 2008 by SAKS-AVENUE

[Dirty Harry]

I think Ryder is finished with the habs. Word is he showed up out of shape at beginning of season and parties too much, also some worse rumours that he has alcoholism problems and is the NHL sustence abuse program. That could be more than enough for a top calibre NHL sniper to loss his step and his insta-reflex need to snap shots on quick passes. As a one dimensional goal scorer those knife edge abilities as his bread and butter, if he's lost that then he brings nothing else to the table.

Higgins parties a lot also, but I'm more inclined to believe he's playing injured or something (wasn't he playing with a broken bone down the stretch last year?). BTW Higgins is getting a lot of crap, but his season isn't TERRIBLE statistically (same with Koivu). He's on pace for 25-30 goals, and 50+ points. People just had expectations for him to have a superstar breakout year. Hasn't happened, but he's still producing and not a pylon like Ryder, plus he's only 24!

Really Ryder is the albatross holding the other two back. When such an ineffective guy is on a line, it's almost like playing a PK unit (maybe 4.5 vs 5). Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse did well for a week or two, maybe if those two wingers had buried some of the 10 open nets they missed there would be a lot less screaming about them. If you watched Koivu closely he did look off for a while a month back, but the past few weeks he's kicked it up a notch I think proving he still has that fire.

[Fanpuck33]

I agree with all three of the last posts. We all, like Carbo, keep hoping our 1st line will snap out of it AND WHEN THEY DO....LOOK OUT.

Our first line in playing great, it's the second that is playing poorly. If you haven't noticed, Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev is our first line.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

Our first line in playing great, it's the second that is playing poorly. If you haven't noticed, Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev is our first line.

Please.

[Neech]

I think Ryder is finished with the habs. Word is he showed up out of shape at beginning of season and parties too much, also some worse rumours that he has alcoholism problems and is the NHL sustence abuse program. That could be more than enough for a top calibre NHL sniper to loss his step and his insta-reflex need to snap shots on quick passes. As a one dimensional goal scorer those knife edge abilities as his bread and butter, if he's lost that then he brings nothing else to the table.

Where did you hear these rumours?

Higgins parties a lot also, but I'm more inclined to believe he's playing injured or something (wasn't he playing with a broken bone down the stretch last year?). BTW Higgins is getting a lot of crap, but his season isn't TERRIBLE statistically (same with Koivu). He's on pace for 25-30 goals, and 50+ points. People just had expectations for him to have a superstar breakout year. Hasn't happened, but he's still producing and not a pylon like Ryder, plus he's only 24!

Yeah but the stats don't tell the story. It looks good on paper but bad on the ice, there have been many weak games. 50 points isn't as impressive this year on a team that can score. You're right about all the missed chances, but Higgins isn't a finesse guy so he has to work that much harder to get results. The partying rumour (if true) is kinda worrying, but it doesn't surprise me that much, just as long as he tones it down a bit and gets his head in the game.

Really Ryder is the albatross holding the other two back. When such an ineffective guy is on a line, it's almost like playing a PK unit (maybe 4.5 vs 5). Higgins - Koivu - Latendresse did well for a week or two, maybe if those two wingers had buried some of the 10 open nets they missed there would be a lot less screaming about them. If you watched Koivu closely he did look off for a while a month back, but the past few weeks he's kicked it up a notch I think proving he still has that fire.

I wouldn't say that the past few weeks have been GOOD for Koivu, but he's made steady improvements. Last night was his best game of 2008, he was creating all sorts of stuff and outworking and outwitting the opponents, it's a shame that he was alone there with Higgins playing so badly and Ryder being his useless self. Never count Koivu out, I think he's going to be here for the stretch drive in a big way.

[Habsfan]

BTW Higgins is getting a lot of crap, but his season isn't TERRIBLE statistically (same with Koivu). He's on pace for 25-30 goals, and 50+ points. People just had expectations for him to have a superstar breakout year. Hasn't happened, but he's still producing and not a pylon like Ryder, plus he's only 24!

I agree with most of your statement about Higgins. The problem though is that 25 games into the season, Higgins had 12 or 13 goals. IN the last 25 games, he's scored 3 or 4 goals...not the same kind of production.

As for him becoming a superstar, I clearly remember earlier this year(when Higgins was on Fire) taking crap from certain forumers because I told them that I didn't expect Higgins to become a legit 35-40 goal man. I always expected him to more of a 20-30 goal player, and looks like that is what he'll be scoring this year!

[Habsfan]

I think Ryder is finished with the habs. Word is he showed up out of shape at beginning of season and parties too much

Higgins parties a lot also

The partying rumour (if true) is kinda worrying, but it doesn't surprise me that much, just as long as he tones it down a bit and gets his head in the game.

That's one of the inconveniences(depending on who you are!) about Montreal and it's party atmosphere. It has ahppened before in the past(Shayne Corson, Stephane Richer, Chris Chelios) were all know partiers when they were in Montreal. I just hope Higgins can slow down on the partying.