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habs rule    392
23 minutes ago, DON said:

But Galchenyuk's number one priority after practice is said to be working on his one-timers instead.

"Can lead a horse to water; but, you cant make it drink."

Maybe Alex Galchenyuk Sr. is 'helping coach and advise' him and is not doing well at it?

I think Alex jr wants to succeed, he has been a very good player for his entire life. I am not sure why The Habs are so down on him. He has been a productive scorer, he has great puck control. His back checking is not so good?  Guy Lafleur wasn't a great defensive player, nor was Wayne Gretzky. Their job was goals goals and more goals. I think Alex has been mishandled. Stick him at center and let him score goals. As to his father, I don't know if he is interfering but if he is, he needs to mind his own bidnes. And not be minding Alex's.

as Hank jr once said. I paraphrased.

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
19 minutes ago, habs rule said:

I think Alex jr wants to succeed, he has been a very good player for his entire life. I am not sure why The Habs are so down on him. He has been a productive scorer, he has great puck control. His back checking is not so good?  Guy Lafleur wasn't a great defensive player, nor was Wayne Gretzky. Their job was goals goals and more goals. I think Alex has been mishandled. Stick him at center and let him score goals. As to his father, I don't know if he is interfering but if he is, he needs to mind his own bidnes. And not be minding Alex's.

as Hank jr once said. I paraphrased.

It's really a hard topic to assess because there are so many vicious cycles spinning around. 

 

1) The Habs need a top 6 center

2) Alex Galchenyuk was drafted to be a top 6 center

3) Alex Galchenyuk is still on the team

4) Many Habs fans think he can play center

----> This can be related to the fact that we need a center 

5) Coaches haven't placed him at center consistently even though we need that center

 

I'm not personally arguing that Galchenyuk cannot be a center but the only reason this is a topic in my mind is because we need a top 6 center. If we didn't need one, I would be fine with Galchenyuk playing wing or center.  Galchenyuk switched back and forth between wing and center and it was never a huge issue for me. I was happy we drafted a top 3 draft pick who could be used in a versatile way, whether it be at wing or center.

 

The topic only became an issue as recently as these playoffs. We traded away Desharnais who was a viable center and then we moved Galchenyuk to the wing. Habs fans have wanted a great top line center for some time now but with Plekanec, Desharnais, Galchenyuk and Eller, our center depth was never as huge of an issue as it is now. Danault replaced Eller, although it was played out as though he replaced Desharnais, Plekanec regressed, although I think he can be better, Desharnais was traded and Galchenyuk was moved to wing.

 

The question then becomes who is right here and what is the coaching staff's plan for Galchenyuk? We cannot afford to go into next season with the status quo at center. That's arguable even if it's promised that Galchenyuk will play center, let alone if he doesn't. If the plan isn't concrete to play Galchenyuk at center then I believe that Galchenyuk becomes more expendable than he should be if the return is a quality center like a Duchene. 

 

The final point here is that regardless of who is "right", I believe there are certain Habs fans out there who are willing to slot Galchenyuk at center because we need a center. When thought of in that manner, I don't really think that's a solid enough argument. From my positive perspective, I haven't seen these extreme deficiencies in Galchenyuk's defensive play but the coaching staff's opinion matter more than me and I'd rather not have to discuss this topic of uncertainty when it comes to Galchenyuk if it's an issue for them moving forward. It can even become a distraction to the team.

 

 

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hab29RETIRED    167
1 hour ago, habs rule said:

I think Alex jr wants to succeed, he has been a very good player for his entire life. I am not sure why The Habs are so down on him. He has been a productive scorer, he has great puck control. His back checking is not so good?  Guy Lafleur wasn't a great defensive player, nor was Wayne Gretzky. Their job was goals goals and more goals. I think Alex has been mishandled. Stick him at center and let him score goals. As to his father, I don't know if he is interfering but if he is, he needs to mind his own bidnes. And not be minding Alex's.

as Hank jr once said. I paraphrased.

Exactly.  I loved reading the new mike bossy article in the players tribune.  At his first camp he approached al arbour to ask him what he should be doing in his own zone.  Arbour asks him if he knew what he was here for.  It was to score goals and arbour asked him if could score goals?  I realize it's not the same game as 1977.  But we are a team starving for goals with a gm that does almost nothing but pick up 4th liners.  Can't the other 15 grunts that MB acquired handle the friggin defensive responsibilities??  We don't need galchenyuk to be Bergeron or Gainey.  Given mr. Potatoe head... I mean, Julien's treatment of seguin, I'm afraid that we won't see galchenyuk get a fair shot - which is why I wasn't thrilled about hiring mr. Potatoe head.. I mean Julien.

 

We need him to lead the offence.  If he and his line have the puck for the majority of the time they are on the ice, I think we will be okay.  If we score goals, we don't need to hope Carey shuts out the other team every night, so we can hopefully win in the shootout.  Hell, as it is, even if we get to the shootout, Julien would probably be sending Shaw,  Mitchell and king in to take the shots.

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DON    28
On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎10 at 5:28 AM, illWill said:

If Galchenyuk is not going to be a center for the Habs, I would trade him for Duchense straight up

This fellow wouldn't.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/James-Tanner/Matt-Duchene-Is-Fools-Gold---Teams-Should-Pass-Unless-Hes-Being-Given-Away/243/85665

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Scott462    55
11 minutes ago, DON said:

 

That guy seems like a Toronto homer and I think he is taking the piss out of Duchene. He's not that bad.

 

We have to remember he was playing on a team that was actively trying to tank last year. Would I trade him for Chucky? Personally I wouldn't, I'd like to give him one more crack at centre if we could but we need that position solved by the start of the year. No matter what.

 

Also I have a feeling Sakic wants to move Duchene to upgrade his blueline not add another forward.

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He's a 55 point player. If he hadn't been a PPG guy four years ago, I doubt there'd be much buzz about him, even if he's a C and Galy is a LW. Unless someone can explain why he spent the past three seasons producing at a mediocre-to-middling clip and offer some convincing reason for thinking that a trade to Montreal will return his game to its long-gone elite level, the buzz is about a rep rooted in obsolete information. 

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DON    28
19 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

That guy seems like a Toronto homer and I think he is taking the piss out of Duchene. He's not that bad.

 

We have to remember he was playing on a team that was actively trying to tank last year. Would I trade him for Chucky? Personally I wouldn't, I'd like to give him one more crack at centre if we could but we need that position solved by the start of the year. No matter what.

 

Also I have a feeling Sakic wants to move Duchene to upgrade his blueline not add another forward.

I would trade Gallagher+ bit more (maybe Beaulieu) for him, partly because I would prefer to see Galchenyuk signed long term and not traded.

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Scott462    55
25 minutes ago, DON said:

I would trade Gallagher+ bit more (maybe Beaulieu) for him, partly because I would prefer to see Galchenyuk signed long term and not traded.

 

Right there with ya.

 

Galchenyuk has a ton of potential and if he turns into a guy that can play wing and centre that's actually a good thing. I think if we got someone who could play first line centre and slot Chuck into the second and just let him grow and learn would be amazing for his development especially if said centre could take him under his wing. Obviously delusions of grandeur but whatever.

 

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41 minutes ago, DON said:

I would trade Gallagher+ bit more (maybe Beaulieu) for him, partly because I would prefer to see Galchenyuk signed long term and not traded.

 

Yes, good call. Duchene for Chucky is seriously problematic, but if we can move other pieces for him, it's well worth doing.

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

He's a 55 point player. If he hadn't been a PPG guy four years ago, I doubt there'd be much buzz about him, even if he's a C and Galy is a LW. Unless someone can explain why he spent the past three seasons producing at a mediocre-to-middling clip and offer some convincing reason for thinking that a trade to Montreal will return his game to its long-gone elite level, the buzz is about a rep rooted in obsolete information. 

 

2016: Pierre Luc Dubois

2015: Dylan Strome 

2014: Leon Draisaitl 

2013: Jonathan Drouin 

2012: Alex Galchenyuk 

2011: Jonathan Huberdeau 

2009: Matt Duchene 

 

These were the 3rd overall picks in their respective drafts. Which of those players don't come with some type of hype? Even 8 years later. I'm not sure why Duchene is the only one that's expected to falter. If he's considered old, then it's going to be hard to find that top 6 center. 

 

I don't have a specific reason for the way Duchene has produced over the last few years but I do know that Colorado was not being run well and Duchene was being thrown all over th lineup. It really seems similar to the way things have gone with Galchenyuk here and that, along with them both being (along with Drouin) previous 3rd overall picks is probably the main reason the trade rumour has been brought up with these two in mind.

 

There definitely would be risk in the trade but sometimes one has to have some foresight and I don't personally agree that Duchene's potential is 55 points. I put him at 60 when he plays 82 games and he can also be more than that with Pacioretty and Radulov. 

 

I dont think this is a trade that manifests itself but like I've said before, Duchene would be on my radar and I would think about it even if that's the only thing they'd take back.

 

It's fine to say let's trade Gallagher and not Galchenyuk but let's not forget that our perception of those two players are different than the manner in which the coach has used them. If we trade Gallagher, we've now lost our top 6 depth at right wing, unless the plan is to ironically spot Galchenyuk there. Galchenyuk wasn't as high on the depth chart as of the end of last season and so we'd actually be trading a more useful player to our lineup *as it stands* even though Galchenyuk has more skill.

 

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Commandant    606
4 hours ago, Scott462 said:

 

That guy seems like a Toronto homer and I think he is taking the piss out of Duchene. He's not that bad.

 

We have to remember he was playing on a team that was actively trying to tank last year. Would I trade him for Chucky? Personally I wouldn't, I'd like to give him one more crack at centre if we could but we need that position solved by the start of the year. No matter what.

 

Also I have a feeling Sakic wants to move Duchene to upgrade his blueline not add another forward.

 

Colorado was not "actively" trying to tank. 

 

Prior to the season, they thought they were a playoff team.

 

They did not make the type of trades that rebuilding clubs make. 

 

 

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Commandant    606

Thinking Duchene is an 80 point guy after three years of not doing it, is the same kind of thinking that pegged Scott Gomez as an 80-90 point guy after 3 years of not doing it. 

 

I'm not saying Duchene is going to turn into Gomez and suddenly forget how to score altogether. 

 

But what we have seen in the NHL is that guys peak younger, 22, 23, 24..... and then settle in at a slightly lower pace.  Duchene peaked at close to a PPG player and now is settling in as a 55-60 point guy.   Could he get more, maybe in a perfect season... but the fact is that its unlikely he comes in and puts together a run of career best seasons in his late 20s. 

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Scott462    55

I hear that Prices contract negotiations have started and he's aiming real high.

 

I hope he doesn't intend on settling for the max deal. I think 8 to 8.5 would be nice. God knows he deserves a big pay day but I don't think the Habs should  go for much more than that

 

What do you guys think?

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hab29RETIRED    167
6 hours ago, DON said:

I would trade Gallagher+ bit more (maybe Beaulieu) for him, partly because I would prefer to see Galchenyuk signed long term and not traded.

I would be okay with Gallagher + Beaulieu for duschane, despite Gallagher having a better contract and term

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hab29RETIRED    167
6 hours ago, Scott462 said:

 

That guy seems like a Toronto homer and I think he is taking the piss out of Duchene. He's not that bad.

 

We have to remember he was playing on a team that was actively trying to tank last year. Would I trade him for Chucky? Personally I wouldn't, I'd like to give him one more crack at centre if we could but we need that position solved by the start of the year. No matter what.

 

Also I have a feeling Sakic wants to move Duchene to upgrade his blueline not add another forward.

Yes.  The "guy" who is Washington capitals blogger is a Toronto homer.  Did you even read the article??

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BCHabnut    161

No way I would trade Chucky for Duchesne. Chucky's ppg improves every year. We have not seen his peak. The Centre thing aggravates me, because his production is so much better when he is at Centre. Not because the team needs a Centre. I would really like to see him get another year and see how he matures. 

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Scott462    55
19 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yes.  The "guy" who is Washington capitals blogger is a Toronto homer.  Did you even read the article??

 

Lol.

 

I said he seemed like a Toronto homer and yes I did read it.

 

You certainly like to battle words don't you?

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DON    28
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I would be okay with Gallagher + Beaulieu for duschane, despite Gallagher having a better contract and term

Just seems like might an OK deal for both teams (with picks or 'stuff' added as need be, to even out). 

But, Friedman normally wouldn't go out on limb speculating Galchenyuk likely to be traded, without some smoke somewhere. So maybe Habs are planning or hoping to swap a winger (him) for some centre?

 

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hab29RETIRED    167
9 minutes ago, DON said:

Just seems like might an OK deal for both teams (with picks or 'stuff' added as need be, to even out). 

But, Friedman normally wouldn't go out on limb speculating Galchenyuk likely to be traded, without some smoke somewhere. So maybe Habs are planning or hoping to swap a winger (him) for some centre?

 

If they are going after Mackinnon, sure, but no way I'd move galchenyuk for duschane.  Galchenyuk +julsson and 1st for mackinnon and either a 2nd or 3rd back Id be okay with.

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DON    28

MacKinnon for Galchenyuk+stuff would be acceptable to 99.9% of Habfans, that is for sure. Just think he is an untouchable and not going nowhere, anytime soon.

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xXx..CK..xXx    146
5 hours ago, Commandant said:

Thinking Duchene is an 80 point guy after three years of not doing it, is the same kind of thinking that pegged Scott Gomez as an 80-90 point guy after 3 years of not doing it. 

 

I'm not saying Duchene is going to turn into Gomez and suddenly forget how to score altogether. 

 

But what we have seen in the NHL is that guys peak younger, 22, 23, 24..... and then settle in at a slightly lower pace.  Duchene peaked at close to a PPG player and now is settling in as a 55-60 point guy.   Could he get more, maybe in a perfect season... but the fact is that its unlikely he comes in and puts together a run of career best seasons in his late 20s. 

I'm not saying it was directed at me but I said 60 points in my post although in a perfect world I do believe he could get more.

 

Why is this that much different to when you predicted Radulov would get 76 points this season? (Not an attack, I loved the optimism.) The thought process there is predicated on potential and I'm obviously higher on Duchene than most Habs fans. I don't expect him to get more than 60 points but in an ideal world, I do think it's possible for him to do so. Especially if he gains some chemistry with Pacioretty. Regardless, 55-60 points in a given year is not too shabby in today's NHL.

 

There is a decent argument to be made not to trade the two straight up for one another but as pieces of a bigger trade I look into it or if there's some possibility you lose Galchenyuk to free agency in a year or two and you get that feeling, you might want to think ahead. 

 

Duchene accomplished a lot more in his first 5 seasons than Galchenyuk has so I'm still not fully sold that what I'm saying is entirely wrong. If Duchene is over the hill, why won't Galchenyuk be over the hill in 3 years?  We'd arguably be trading Galchenyuk while his value isn't great for Duchene when his value is at the lowest it may ever be. 

 

With all that in place I personally still don't go out of my way to push for that trade but when you factor in some of the more abstract reasoning, it's certainly debateable in my opinion. 

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dlbalr    674
5 hours ago, Scott462 said:

I hear that Prices contract negotiations have started and he's aiming real high.

 

I hope he doesn't intend on settling for the max deal. I think 8 to 8.5 would be nice. God knows he deserves a big pay day but I don't think the Habs should  go for much more than that

 

What do you guys think?

 

It's going to be around 9 when it's all said and done I think.  Will his agent push for a contract bigger than what they gave Subban or will Price come in a bit lower (think 8.75)?  Lundqvist is at 8.5 - that's the starting point, especially since Price is younger/

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xXx..CK..xXx    146

Yeah it's a shame that Lundqvist exists because otherwise I think we could have argued for 8 million or so. The Rangers overpaid Lundqvist even though I've suggested he's a good goalie in the past, but it hasn't seemed to hurt them all that much. 

 

I'm going to go on a limb and say Price takes 8.5 million but any of the above mentioned amounts make sense to me.

 

How about term? 6 years? 8 years? 

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hab29RETIRED    167
22 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Yeah it's a shame that Lundqvist exists because otherwise I think we could have argued for 8 million or so. The Rangers overpaid Lundqvist even though I've suggested he's a good goalie in the past, but it hasn't seemed to hurt them all that much. 

 

I'm going to go on a limb and say Price takes 8.5 million but any of the above mentioned amounts make sense to me.

 

How about term? 6 years? 8 years? 

There's no way he takes less than 8 years.  I think he would take a little bit less money than term.  If we don't give it, someone will. I think we have to give minimum of 8m/8yrs if Price takes discount, but it will probably be $8.5m.  If he wants more, I think we should explore a trade.

 

I just don't see how you can build a winner paying $9M+ to a goalie.

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11 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

There's no way he takes less than 8 years.  I think he would take a little bit less money than term.  If we don't give it, someone will. I think we have to give minimum of 8m/8yrs if Price takes discount, but it will probably be $8.5m.  If he wants more, I think we should explore a trade.

 

I just don't see how you can build a winner paying $9M+ to a goalie.

 

Well, MB is going to pay whatever he has to. There's no leverage here other than Price's own desire to stay here. And the team is just not strong enough to do anything without him.

 

I'm not going to rend my garment over the difference between 8 and 9 mil, but the trouble with building around Carey, as has been discussed before on this forum, is that he is unlikely to outgoaltend his opposite number over four straight playoff series. On any given night, we have the best goalie, but in the playoffs, sooner or later you meet a Hot Hand who neutralizes the Price advantage. If you lack the cap space needed to build a team that can win even under those circumstances, then you won't win, period.

 

But it doesn't matter. It's Price or bust. And frankly I doubt that Team Fuddy Duddy has the managerial chops to build a winner *even if* Price gives them a break on the cap hit.

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