GDT 38: Montreal at Tampa, December 28th

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Pacioretty (whose penalty was costly and disgraceful - some LEADERSHIP) is a valuable piece who perhaps can be used to get back an actual top-6 C. Move him. The change I want to see is in the GM's office, but failing that, it's time to stop jerking around and accept that this core needs a fundamental change. Ryan O'Reilly, maybe?

[Meller93]

18 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Pacioretty (whose penalty was costly and disgraceful - some LEADERSHIP) is a valuable piece who perhaps can be used to get back an actual top-6 C. Move him. The change I want to see is in the GM's office, but failing that, it's time to stop jerking around and accept that this core needs a fundamental change. Ryan O'Reilly, maybe?

Would do a pacioretty for ROR. Patch would also work well with Eichel as an elite C

[zumpano21]

1 hour ago, Habber said:

Thanks. I can't see captain Max making it to the deadline. He would be an awesome fit in Pittsburgh.

 

 

Weber would be cool to see in PITT. Not sure they can put together a pkg though.

 

3 way deal might be nice 

[Machine of Loving Grace]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Pacioretty (whose penalty was disgraceful - some LEADERSHIP) is a valuable piece who perhaps can be used to get back an actual top-6 C. Move him. The change to see is in the GM's office, but failing that, it's time to stop jerking around and accept that this core needs a fundamental change. Ryan O'Reilly, maybe?

 

If Bergevin could turn Pacioretty into Ryan O'Reilly, or any centre of that calibre, I'd maybe have some faith in him again.

 

It's more likely that a team close to the cap that needs some firepower sacrifices a #2 prospect or maybe a #1 prospect in a position of depth for him, along with maybe someone to balance their cap and a first rounder.

 

Maybe you get lucky after a bidding war and get Adrian Kempe or Joel Eriksson Ek, or maybe they go with an older guy like Radek Faksa or Tomas Hertl. The cynic in me could see Pacioretty moved to the Islanders to get local boy Beauvillier when the targets in Long Island should be Kieffer Bellows and Josh Ho-Sang (Barzal is a pipe dream). Maybe the Hurricanes feel like they can make a splash and make the playoffs and give up Elias Lindholm, though they are more likely to dangle Julien Gauthier.

 

If I was a betting man? 2018 First Rounder, Michael Frolik, and Mark Jankowski on the Flames. Jankowski is expendable with just enough potential but has yet to put it together, while Frolik wanted to be a Hab and was ignored. He needs new scenery and would be a favourite of Julien. The Habs can claim it was one of those infamous lateral moves where they are not tanking but they know they need to make a change. The Flames already have their top two left wingers in Gaudreau and Tkachuk, but I've heard they want to try Tkachuk at centre. Pacioretty wouldn't be a long term plan and just a way to boost the Flames for two years. 

[Metallica]

The only type of teams that would try and trade for max at the deadline, would be playoff teams.  The problem is you might not get what you want for him because of that. If we're going to trade a player like max I would wait tell the draft to do it. Get more teams in on him and try and get the most you can for him.

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. MB is a joke. 

 

Patches looked especially useless on that PP i must say. It really might be time to think about moving him.

We already made one bad player move when a change in management was required.  I wouldn't move Patches until we dump MB and I sure the hell don't want MB the one making such a critical move, otherwise we may end up with Milan Lucic for Patches.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

Kucherov beats Alzner to the icing late in the period and sets up Stamkos who ties it. 

great signing!  a flat footed, no talent defensive dman signed to a long-term deal, while the heart of our D was cut loose for daring to demand a two year deal. 

[hab29RETIRED]

4 hours ago, Link67 said:

Sigh..

 

 

 

The more I watch alzner, the more I ask myself, Why?

Alzner probably reminded MB of the dman he aspired to become - which makes you wonder just how bad the overall quality of the dman of his era were.  Unfortunately  MB hasn't realized that dman today need to be able to skate.

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, Meller93 said:

 

Would hire you over MB.

If you meant to ask, who he'd hire over MB.  Hell  at this stage i'd take Pee Wee Herman over him.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, zumpano21 said:

 

 

Weber would be cool to see in PITT. Not sure they can put together a pkg though.

 

3 way deal might be nice 

Weber+MaxPac+Shaw for Draisaitl + 1st + Klefbom

[sbhatt]

Another pathetic game from #floatingcaptain; one shot, no hits, no contribution to the team of any kind whatsoever.  It's past demoting him to the 4th line even, because his current effort level doesn't justify him being anywhere in the lineup.  Perhaps he needs a game in the pressbox to decide if he even wants to play hockey?  Enough with the coddling...Torts was 100% on the money.

 

 

[Toronthab]

3 hours ago, Meller93 said:

Drop over to Newfoundland, we’re good at cards here, plus I need a distraction to numb the pain

Its a date!  I haven't been to the Rock yet and would love to go some time.. I'll warn ya!

[Metallica]

MB is putting all his eggs in the tavares basket??. If he doesn't sign here on July 1st, I would hate to see the type of players he over pays for. 

[sbhatt]

2 minutes ago, Metallica said:

MB is putting all his eggs in the tavares basket??. If he doesn't sign here on July 1st, I would hate to see the type of players he over pays for. 

 

 

If MB is still employed come July 1, it will be proof that we have an idiot owner and that this franchise will descend further into darkness.

[Toronthab]

Its a dubious blessing that I'm not the guy people go to for brilliant hockey decisions. 

[DON]

3 hours ago, Link67 said:

The saddest part in all this is, this team can't even figure it out when Price is playing awesome, this is 2 games, based on his standout performance, that Price did not deserve losses for, yet here we are.

 

Yes, it looks like this is a non-playoff season, No it is not time to Burn it all to the ground as some are already suggesting. It needs a shake up, a big shake up, but it does not need a can of gas and a lighter yet, with Price and Weber the pillars are still there to make something worthwhile. This team needs a top 6 shake up, it needs a top 6 re-tool, What I am seeing up there is not adequate, and quite frankly leading to lost years of Price and Weber's Prime years of very good hockey left. 

 

Defensively this team can actually get by on the backs of Price and Weber alone, but offensively, it is going to be challenged unless something ground shaking happens up there. It was our main point of weakness for years, compounded once more last spring even more evidently. Yet here we are with an unimproved forward group, hindered further by unforseen anomalies like Pacioretty and Drouin not producing as expected leading to an actual offensive regression from last season. 

 

There is a re-build coming, in 3 to 4 years, there is a re-build coming. But right now, this team, this management group needs to get on its horse and re-tool this offense before it squanders the years leading up to this re-build swimming around 10th place. Can someone tell me again why after we got Drouin, we didn't re-sign Radulov, and Markov, why we didn't look right past Alzner on the UFA sheet. Why did we not just take what we had, added Drouin to it, got rid of Emelin and Beaulieu, sign Jerabek, and maybe still got Schlemko, and then focused all our efforts on looking for a Center via any means to acquire it?

 

 

Your complaining about Beaulieu and Emelin...you serious? Any other useless baggage you want to pile on to try and make a weak point? Jerabek looks like a good signing and Drouin likely is as well, Markov is washed up and Radulov never said he would re-sign.

[Trizzak]

1 hour ago, Metallica said:

The only type of teams that would try and trade for max at the deadline, would be playoff teams.  The problem is you might not get what you want for him because of that. If we're going to trade a player like max I would wait tell the draft to do it. Get more teams in on him and try and get the most you can for him.

 

Playoff teams can give you some great value.

 

Think like a GM who sees his team with a short-term cup window and you have an opportunity to get Max Pacioretty for not one but two playoffs at a bargain contract. At the trade deadline taking on a 4.5 million dollar player isn't all that difficult (only 6 playoff teams currently can't do that trade without sending back salary), and next season the cap is probably going up 4.5 mill or more anyway...

 

What future assets would you truly consider untouchable in a  trade to bring in an affordable goal-scoring LWer for your top 6 for TWO playoff runs?

 

Playoff teams are gonna make it rain to get to Pacioretty (assuming he scores a ####ing goal or 5 between now and February.)

[Guest Stogey24]

I never imagined Karl Alzner to be this useless. 

 

Pacioretty wants to get traded. His play is indicative of that. 

 

This team needs to be blown up

[Link67]

6 hours ago, DON said:

Your complaining about Beaulieu and Emelin...you serious? Any other useless baggage you want to pile on to try and make a weak point? Jerabek looks like a good signing and Drouin likely is as well, Markov is washed up and Radulov never said he would re-sign.

 

DON you are out to lunch on this one, Markov would have still been useful, Radulov would have re-signed here if we were willing to overpay a little in June, and given how ridiculous this offense looks right now, we very likely should have, from the simple fact we clearly couldn't afford not to.

 

Also I am not complaining about Emelin and Beaulieu, I am simply saying cutting them loose would have still been fine, while signing Jerabek and getting Schelmko. This offseason was a mess, we started strong and ended in catastrophic fashion, with almost 9 mill in cap, no players to use it on, hobbling into the season on what was likely plan C or D. You trying to say my point of keeping what we had and adding to it instead of trying to do whatever the heck you wanna call this was, is bordering on Blind and Foolish defending of a terrible plan that Started July 1st, and is currently failing miserably. By my calculations, if we re-signed Radulov at 7, Markov at 7, got rid of Emelin and Beaulieu, Signed Jerabek and got Schlemko, not signed Alzner, Hemsky, and Streit, we would have been sitting around 73.8 mill on the cap. And I look at a top 6 center like Schenn getting moved in June, it took a young talented forward and a pick to get him, we couldn't have offered Galchenyuk, who we can't figure out if he is a top 6 Center or not, and a pick not got in on that? After a swap like that we would have been sitting at 74.2 in cap, our line up for opening night could have been.

 

Pacioretty - Schenn - Radulov

Byron - Danault - Drouin

Lehkonen - Plekanec - Gallagher

Hudon - De La Rose - Shaw

 

Markov - Weber

Schemko - Petry

Jerabek - Benn

 

 

But of course you are right, my point is weak, making 4 extra moves that bring nothing, plus not bringing back important pieces that could not easily be replaced during that particular summer was by far the better plan to enter the offseason with. Oh and lets not forget, not addressing our monumental need of a true top 6 Centermen, for theeee, 5th? year in a row is also right up there on the best plan ever list right? 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

46 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

I never imagined Karl Alzner to be this useless. 

 

Pacioretty wants to get traded. His play is indicative of that. 

 

This team needs to be blown up

 

Honestly, I wonder whether Pacioretty has lost a step. I realize he's still young, but that *can* happen to guys at his age who have been in the league a long time despite their youth. It happened to Gomez, who either lost a step or just lost his desire to excel. Patches has that air about him now.

 

Or maybe he is quietly playing through an injury. But like I said earlier in this thread - he used to pressure defencemen from the outside with that extra push in his stride. When was the last time we saw that? He just doesn't do it any more, hasn't all season.

 

Something is wrong. Loss of footspeed; loss of desire; quitting on the coach; wanting out of Montreal altogether; injury. This isn't a normal Patches slump. It needs explanation.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We already made one bad player move when a change in management was required.  I wouldn't move Patches until we dump MB and I sure the hell don't want MB the one making such a critical move, otherwise we may end up with Milan Lucic for Patches.

 

I agree with you, but I suspect that Molson - if he fires MB at all - will wait until after the season. Meanwhile MB (who IMHO has always allowed ego to trump sound decision-making) will busy himself with unloading guys who have personally disappointed him, like Pacioretty. 

 

And will MB be fired? Carbo thinks so, but Damphousse said he couldn't see it because of the length of Bergevin's contract. MB is a good old boy very popular within that incestuous Quebec francophone hockey community. The frustration you and I feel against him may not be translating at the highest levels; MB's connections may insulate him such that Molson will frame the question as 'how is MB going to fix this mess?' rather than the right way, which is 'who is the best person to replace this dummy?'

 

Also - why is Molson team president, anyway? Normally that office is occupied by a buffer person. 

[alfredoh2009]

2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Honestly, I wonder whether Pacioretty has lost a step. I realize he's still young, but that *can* happen to guys at his age who have been in the league a long time despite their youth. It happened to Gomez, who either lost a step or just lost his desire to excel. Patches has that air about him now.

 

Or maybe he is quietly playing through an injury. But like I said earlier in this thread - he used to pressure defencemen from the outside with that extra push in his stride. When was the last time we saw that? He just doesn't do it any more, hasn't all season.

 

Something is wrong. Loss of footspeed; loss of desire; quitting on the coach; wanting out of Montreal altogether; injury. This isn't a normal Patches slump. It needs explanation.

I was thinking the same watching the game yesterday. Something is really wrong with Pacioretty. I think it may be in part from the pressure of being the centre of criticism by media and the fans. I though he may be playing through an injury, maybe the knee injury in the summer of 2016 that has come back to bug him. Or like Cole told him when he came to mentor him after his neck injury: that it will never feel right and that he had to do extra physio/work on it though out the season for the rest of his career.

 

This season is feeling more and more like 2011-2012

 

[Commandant]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Honestly, I wonder whether Pacioretty has lost a step. I realize he's still young, but that *can* happen to guys at his age who have been in the league a long time despite their youth. It happened to Gomez, who either lost a step or just lost his desire to excel. Patches has that air about him now.

 

Or maybe he is quietly playing through an injury. But like I said earlier in this thread - he used to pressure defencemen from the outside with that extra push in his stride. When was the last time we saw that? He just doesn't do it any more, hasn't all season.

 

Something is wrong. Loss of footspeed; loss of desire; quitting on the coach; wanting out of Montreal altogether; injury. This isn't a normal Patches slump. It needs explanation.

 

Its the lack of puck moving defencemen. 

Patches scores so many of his goals in transition.  The loss of Subban and Markov to spring him on breakaways and 2 on 1s is evident.  

If you look at how many primary assists he got from Markov and Subban, its clear. 

Just another area where Bergevin ####ed up with this defence. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

1 minute ago, Commandant said:

 

Its the lack of puck moving defencemen. 

Patches scores so many of his goals in transition.  The loss of Subban and Markov to spring him on breakaways and 2 on 1s is evident.  

If you look at how many primary assists he got from Markov and Subban, its clear. 

Just another area where Bergevin ####ed up with this defence. 

 

You know, that's a great point - and one I should have remembered, being a massive believer that defencemen drive offence. As Macguire might say, 'excellent point by you.'

[DON]

1 hour ago, Link67 said:

 

DON you are out to lunch on this one, Markov would have still been useful, Radulov would have re-signed here if we were willing to overpay a little in June, and given how ridiculous this offense looks right now, we very likely should have, from the simple fact we clearly couldn't afford not to.

 

Also I am not complaining about Emelin and Beaulieu, I am simply saying cutting them loose would have still been fine, while signing Jerabek and getting Schelmko. This offseason was a mess, we started strong and ended in catastrophic fashion, with almost 9 mill in cap, no players to use it on, hobbling into the season on what was likely plan C or D. You trying to say my point of keeping what we had and adding to it instead of trying to do whatever the heck you wanna call this was, is bordering on Blind and Foolish defending of a terrible plan that Started July 1st, and is currently failing miserably. By my calculations, if we re-signed Radulov at 7, Markov at 7, got rid of Emelin and Beaulieu, Signed Jerabek and got Schlemko, not signed Alzner, Hemsky, and Streit, we would have been sitting around 73.8 mill on the cap. And I look at a top 6 center like Schenn getting moved in June, it took a young talented forward and a pick to get him, we couldn't have offered Galchenyuk, who we can't figure out if he is a top 6 Center or not, and a pick not got in on that? After a swap like that we would have been sitting at 74.2 in cap, our line up for opening night could have been.

 

Pacioretty - Schenn - Radulov

Byron - Danault - Drouin

Lehkonen - Plekanec - Gallagher

Hudon - De La Rose - Shaw

 

Markov - Weber

Schemko - Petry

Jerabek - Benn

 

 

But of course you are right, my point is weak, making 4 extra moves that bring nothing, plus not bringing back important pieces that could not easily be replaced during that particular summer was by far the better plan to enter the offseason with. Oh and lets not forget, not addressing our monumental need of a true top 6 Centermen, for theeee, 5th? year in a row is also right up there on the best plan ever list right? 

 

 

Schenn? What you talkin about? No one wanted him.

And when did Radulov say he would stay in Montreal for more $$, other than from HabFans and no one other than HabFans would of offered more for a Russian with sketchy track record. So you are good with 28 and 74 being gonzo, smart?

I do have issue with Radulov and Markov both leaving and Bergevin either not knowing and also being unprepared for this and Gelinas-Morrow-Strait-Hemsky more stop gap and not a good long term plan. And sitting on an extra $8 or 9m this long, with this weak a team is just goofy.