Jump to content

What needs to happen for the Habs to have a successful trade deadline?


Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

No Bergevin still thinks that the team is a playoff team even if you don't add to improve the team.

 

If you don't add significant pieces, and the team stays healthy, then it's a bubble team, just like it was this year. A "bubble team" is not a "playoff team."

 

I'm not ripping my hair out about this fairly inactive deadline, but definitely do not want a repeat of last summer, where basically Bergvin stands around with his d*ck in his hands instead of taking real measures to make the team better. What we saw last year was a nothing deadline followed by "don't worry, there's July 1," then "oh, don't worry, the season hasn't started yet," followed by "OH CRAP THE TEAM IS NO BETTER AND FULL OF INJURIES AND NOW WE SUCK ROCKS." Let's not have a repeat, please.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 148
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

If the Habs are a playoff team next year, that’s a good thing.    I don’t subscribe to the mentality that we should predict the future as negative under all circumstance. If a great trade offer

Can always count on your comedic levels of rational analysis when it comes to anything Bergevin does.    Guy turns a 4th round pick into a 2nd round pick with Scandella, then turns a free ass

I never understand why we should move petry or Tatar for a pick that we HOPE in 3-4 years becomes at least as good as the petry or Tatar we now have. Those are exactly the types of players we’d need t

Posted Images

15 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

No Bergevin still thinks that the team is a playoff team even if you don't add to improve the team.

 

He didn't say that, but I'm glad you know what he thinks.  

 

And I think its highly, highly unlikely that he makes no moves in the summer.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

he said the team can compete for a playoff spot, very encouraging, 

 

MB also said drafting was hard and other teams are bad too? WTF? 

 

Injuries, blah, blah, blah, 

 

guy is a train wreck with no plan 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Chris said:

he said the team can compete for a playoff spot, very encouraging, 

 

MB also said drafting was hard and other teams are bad too? WTF? 

 

Injuries, blah, blah, blah, 

 

guy is a train wreck with no plan 

 

There is a plan. It's to draft and develop. The plan takes no account of the slowly closing windows of Price and Weber, of course - two players of an elite standing who appear to have no analogue within the system. (That's to say, we seem to have no prospects likely to top out at their level). But you know, it's a plan.

 

What I continue to wonder about is the time frame for when all these picks and prospects can reasonably be expected to be contending. Last year we heard a lot of fan talk about the Habs contending after a "three year" transition period. I notice that that talk has gone away now and that the timeline has gotten a lot vaguer, as has the aspiration of building a heavy-duty contender instead of just a "playoff team." When will Caulfield be a scoring star, Suzuki a 60-70 point C, KK a clear-cut top-6 C, Romanov a reliable top-pairing D, this year's top picks taking regular shifts and helping, etc.? Beyond these particulars: when, if current trends continue, will the Habs contend? Three years from now? Four or five? In other words, what are we being asked to expect, after swallowing hippopotamus excrement pretty much non-stop for a half-decade?

 

Being a senile old man, I remember when Serge Savard took over. He said he had a five-year plan. In Year Five, the Habs went to the Finals (and sadly lost to the Flames). I understand that the league is very different now, but this is Year Two of the reset, and it'd be nice to have a realistic estimate of when to expect a switch from Reset to Contend.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a successful trade deadline in that everything was expected. Bergevin recognized the team wasn't close enough to the playoffs, so he got value out of most of his pending free agents. Whether you agree with The Plan or not, the organization stuck to it. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

This was a successful trade deadline in that everything was expected. Bergevin recognized the team wasn't close enough to the playoffs, so he got value out of most of his pending free agents. Whether you agree with The Plan or not, the organization stuck to it. 

 

It was done by Bergevin, therefore some people will never accept that it could be a success or even that there is a plan.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chris said:

he said the team can compete for a playoff spot, very encouraging, 

 

MB also said drafting was hard and other teams are bad too? WTF? 

 

Injuries, blah, blah, blah, 

 

guy is a train wreck with no plan 

 

 

Can always count on your comedic levels of rational analysis when it comes to anything Bergevin does. :rolleyes:

 

Guy turns a 4th round pick into a 2nd round pick with Scandella, then turns a free asset into a 3rd round pick with a more than decent chance to bring that asset back just a few months from now.

 

Totally the work of an incompetent train wreck...

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

There is a plan. It's to draft and develop. The plan takes no account of the slowly closing windows of Price and Weber, of course - two players of an elite standing who appear to have no analogue within the system. (That's to say, we seem to have no prospects likely to top out at their level). But you know, it's a plan.

 

What I continue to wonder about is the time frame for when all these picks and prospects can reasonably be expected to be contending. Last year we heard a lot of fan talk about the Habs contending after a "three year" transition period. I notice that that talk has gone away now and that the timeline has gotten a lot vaguer, as has the aspiration of building a heavy-duty contender instead of just a "playoff team." When will Caulfield be a scoring star, Suzuki a 60-70 point C, KK a clear-cut top-6 C, Romanov a reliable top-pairing D, this year's top picks taking regular shifts and helping, etc.? Beyond these particulars: when, if current trends continue, will the Habs contend? Three years from now? Four or five? In other words, what are we being asked to expect, after swallowing hippopotamus excrement pretty much non-stop for a half-decade?

 

Being a senile old man, I remember when Serge Savard took over. He said he had a five-year plan. In Year Five, the Habs went to the Finals (and sadly lost to the Flames). I understand that the league is very different now, but this is Year Two of the reset, and it'd be nice to have a realistic estimate of when to expect a switch from Reset to Contend.

Don’t forget that he actually won. A cup in yr3.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When asked in the presser about how MB expects next year to be different with the same team his response was, "it has to be". Not exactly encouraging.

 

I can't help but feel like if Lamoriello was our GM we would all be sitting here with erections due to the team helping trades.

 

Our hope falls to the off season...I expect MB to sign some forward depth players (that CJ will use inappropriately because he values hard work over skill 7 days a week), he will sign a depth defense man and we will get a new reclamation project.  He will make a UFA offer that will not accept and we will be the same team on the bubble and if injuries come again then we will be in the same place again...What I hope for here is that MB uses his strength as a trader (his trades are generally very good work) and improves the team that way.

 

Romanov can't be expected to be impact in his rookie year (if he even plays for the Habs next year).

 

Caufield won't be an impact player (if he pans out) for a good 3 years.

 

The rest of our strong prospect pool are 3rd liners.

 

Price will continue on as he is and hopefully we get a proper backup

 

Weber will continue to decline in his own end (he is still a very important player for us but he is clearly loosing a step in the d-zone).

 

Petry will continue to be a beast who is on the cusp of the wrong side of his career.

 

What exactly is our path to contention? I fear 2 more seasons of garbage followed by MB finally getting fired. The new GM comes in and announces a full rebuild.

 

If yesterday was all part of the grand plan then so be it but I don't see a path forward towards contention. We may have to hope that Timmins can get lucky and land one of his darts at the draft table because it is all about luck 😵 - yesterday's presser was the worst he has ever done - even worse than the great hotdog presser of 2018.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a great article in the Globe and Mail about MB:

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6589155/call-of-the-wilde-marc-bergevin-nhl-trade-deadline/

 

A couple of snippets:

 

An NHL team is built through the middle.  It’s not wise to trade away a potential first-pairing defender for a winger. It’s not wise to make a winger play centre. It’s not wise to trade away a centre without a replacement for him.  It’s not wise to trade away a potential first pair defender without a replacement for him.

But hey, he wins a lot of trades.

 

This brings us to this moment. The trade deadline has passed and he has not traded Tomas Tatar and Jeff Petry. They are assets under contract only until the end of next season; then they are free to go anywhere they choose. Again, he didn’t choose to build a team. He could have had two first-round draft choices and two top prospects who could become the elite players of tomorrow. They would have been seven-year assets. They could have been the future.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not defending MB, but wanted to chime in:

1) to me the "it has to be" is what the leafs showed lacking on Saturday and that the Hurricanes showed in their win: team mojo, jam, clutch (:rolleyes:). This core has to elevate its game and the prospects have to pan out because that is the plan. I think MB will go down defending this, to his demise if he gets fired.

2) Forward depth will be signed in the off-season, I was fine with Thompson and Cousins. The Habs need a couple of those players, upgrades on what we are left with: Weal and Weise

3) I do not expect Romanov to be an impact player the first year; but like Emelin before him and Suziki this year, I expect progression.

4) I want to believe in Caufield, but like you I am skeptical.

5) On the prospect pool. Ylonen is suposed to be more than 3rd liner, and I am intrigued by Ikonen and Teasdale (of course, I am not great at evaluating talent)

6) Unless the CH gets a strong backup (that could play half the games but wouldn't because Price will be much better), I do not see this team making it to the playoffs anytime soon

7) I think Weber will be a good 4th D (second pair) in his twilight years

'8) I still think the CH should trade Petry for an upgrade to the lineup. It does not make sense to me to keep him beyond this contract, even if he may still be as good as he is now. Just for asset management's sake

9) I think that this year was the "hump year", where the team showed a no-quit attitude and the prospects improved with some NHL games. We all saw how CJ went to battle with Kotkaniemi, Fleuri, Domi, Drouin, Poehling, Mete, etc.  on most of nights; at the end, it was not good enough for a playoff berth: but he played them in key roles. The poin tis: the CH has shown commitment to the youth transition this season, at both the NHL and AHL level.

10) MB's performance yesterday was confusing to a lot of journalists, and underwhelming to a lot of fans. But it is clear that better days are coming, and I am confident they will come soonner than most expect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am not defending MB, but wanted to chime in:

1) to me the "it has to be" is what the leafs showed lacking on Saturday and that the Hurricanes showed in their win: team mojo, jam, clutch (:rolleyes:). This core has to elevate its game and the prospects have to pan out because that is the plan. I think MB will go down defending this, to his demise if he gets fired.

2) Forward depth will be signed in the off-season, I was fine with Thompson and Cousins. The Habs need a couple of those players, upgrades on what we are left with: Weal and Weise

3) I do not expect Romanov to be an impact player the first year; but like Emelin before him and Suziki this year, I expect progression.

4) I want to believe in Caufield, but like you I am skeptical.

5) On the prospect pool. Ylonen is suposed to be more than 3rd liner, and I am intrigued by Ikonen and Teasdale (of course, I am not great at evaluating talent)

6) Unless the CH gets a strong backup (that could play half the games but wouldn't because Price will be much better), I do not see this team making it to the playoffs anytime soon

7) I think Weber will be a good 4th D (second pair) in his twilight years

'8) I still think the CH should trade Petry for an upgrade to the lineup. It does not make sense to me to keep him beyond this contract, even if he may still be as good as he is now. Just for asset management's sake

9) I think that this year was the "hump year", where the team showed a no-quit attitude and the prospects improved with some NHL games. We all saw how CJ went to battle with Kotkaniemi, Fleuri, Domi, Drouin, Poehling, Mete, etc.  on most of nights; at the end, it was not good enough for a playoff berth: but he played them in key roles. The poin tis: the CH has shown commitment to the youth transition this season, at both the NHL and AHL level.

10) MB's performance yesterday was confusing to a lot of journalists, and underwhelming to a lot of fans. But it is clear that better days are coming, and I am confident they will come soonner than most expect.

I don’t look at the approach with kids as commitment to youth. It was hoping they were ready and only Suzuki was. Even with injuries, I’d preferred career minor leaguers up than struggling prospects. Let them dominate at the AHL level. Evans is the only one who looked like he belonged when called up.

 

i look at this deadline and some of the players that commanded 1st round picks and i see wasted opportunity.  It’s been a long time that GM’s were this stupid at the trade deadline and while there is. No hurry to move Petry and Tatar at the deadline, the prices being paid made it seem like they should have been.

 

problem is that MB thinks he has a playoff team that was just unlucky and injured and whose star goalie played like a weak backup for most of the season. Reality is that while price shouldn’t be as bad next year as he was now, even healthy, the habs don’t stack up to the other teams in the Atlantic division - let alone the eastern conference. Boston and Tampa are clearly superior.  Florida has way more talent and should be better. If the leafs aren’t better next year, Dubas will be fired for cap mismanagement and being as dumb as MB when it comes to backup goaltending. Hell, if they don’t make the playoffs it would not surprise me to see him fired this year (unlike MB who seems to have more lives than a cat).

 

just looking at our division and conference I can’t see the team being a serious contender in the next 2 to 3 years. After that price and Weber are nothing more than decking assets and salary cap anchors.

 

ottawa has three first rounders - with at least two lottery picks. MB should have moved Petry and Tatar. i know there are a lot of UFA goalies available, but they don’t have the aura of price.  MB should be going to price and saying if you want win, give. Me a list of teams, Bcoz it ain’t happening here.

 

the Avs and flames are potentially great fits.  Tatar and Petry should be moved before the draft. Offer to take on half of their cap hits to increase the return.
 

this tram is not ready and needs infusion of more elite prospects - not just a lot of good bhl prospects that are bottom line or bottom 6 and bottom pairing dman and depth dmen. Only potential elite young prospects I see are are in order of progression and potential are 1st tier Suzuki, KK, Romanov, and 2nd tier in Poehling, Brooke, fleury., third tier Evans and a bunch of others. We need an infusion of more 1st tier prospects and a better plan to develop them and not force them into the league before they are ready.

 

Id like to see a Tatar, Petry, price and potentially Weber moved.  We need to blow it up.  For veteran help if Kovalchuk doesn’t have better sitters sign him as a mentor to Romanov and veteran presence. 
 

but let’s get serious, we are not going to be a playoff team next year and should have a plan to make moves accordingly to get us to being an elite team.

 

after a sting start, I think the habs were one of the biggest losers at the deadline.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

that CJ will use inappropriately because he values hard work over skill 7 days a week

I know, i really wish he would play Suzuki, but oh well, if the man doesnt like skill, what can ya do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

MB's performance yesterday was confusing to a lot of journalists

Not hard to do and not sure where you got that from?

 

and underwhelming to a lot of fans

Not much you can do with unrealistic expectations,but chuckle.

From Athletic:

 

Montreal Canadiens: C-plus

GM Marc Bergevin was smart to treat Ilya Kovalchuk well and maintain that relationship by trading him to a spot he wanted to go to. Bergevin was also smart to trade Kovalchuk. The Canadiens continued their patient approach without stripping out important pieces for next season in walking the tight line between collecting young assets and trying to stay competitive. Would it have been smart to add a first for Jeff Petry? Sure, but then you’re trying to replace Petry for the next couple years. The Canadiens have an astounding 14 draft picks in the 2020 draft that they’re hosting. It’s going to be a fun time in Montreal, as always.

 

6. Montreal Canadiens

Trending: Neutral

Montreal GM Marc Bergevin resisted the temptation – if it was tempting at all – to move core pieces Tomas Tatar and Jeff Petry, who would have commanded a significant return but would also have created gaping holes in the lineup. So both remain in the fold, at least for now, as Hab fans had to settle for low-end picks coming back for Ilya Kovalchuk and Nate Thompson. Still the strategy better pay dividends next season with both Tatar and Petry on expiring contracts at the end of the 2020-21 season, which means it’s never too early to bang the “playoffs or bust” drum for next spring or Bergevin will rue not yielding to temptation this season and trying to hit a home run.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

There is a great article in the Globe and Mail about MB:

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6589155/call-of-the-wilde-marc-bergevin-nhl-trade-deadline/

 

A couple of snippets:

 

An NHL team is built through the middle.  It’s not wise to trade away a potential first-pairing defender for a winger. It’s not wise to make a winger play centre. It’s not wise to trade away a centre without a replacement for him.  It’s not wise to trade away a potential first pair defender without a replacement for him.

But hey, he wins a lot of trades.

 

This brings us to this moment. The trade deadline has passed and he has not traded Tomas Tatar and Jeff Petry. They are assets under contract only until the end of next season; then they are free to go anywhere they choose. Again, he didn’t choose to build a team. He could have had two first-round draft choices and two top prospects who could become the elite players of tomorrow. They would have been seven-year assets. They could have been the future.

 

That seems to me a very fair analysis. The guy makes good trades but somehow seems never to actually address massive structural roster holes. 

 

And I appreciate the discussion over the last few posts. On alfredoh's remark that "this year was the hump year," we can hope. But I seem to remember a lot of people saying that *last* season was the hump year - the year where the org made the pivot from old suckage to youthful up-and-coming. So much for that. Similar things were said in 2011 and again in 2013. That's the trouble, it feels like a perpetual Groundhog Day in Montreal. Right now I struggle to see how next year will be a ton better, and - while I admit to being no prospect expert - our system seems to have great depth but relatively little elite talent. So I also have trouble seeing a Cup anywhere on the horizon. 

 

I'd like some convincing, compelling source of hope. And I'm not seeing it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the fans complaining about Tatar and Petry not being traded would then be the same fans complaining about Bergevin not loading up with UFA talent or making "hockey trades" that would solidify the lineup. Look, I'm not thrilled either, but in one breath saying trade everyone, then in the next that the Habs need a better LD, backup goalie, and a top 6 player...ugh.

 

Edit: Serious question: For those that said GMs lost their minds this trade deadline, what trades, other than Tampa's two crazy 1st round deals, were massive over payments?

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

People keep talking about confusion.  There shouldnt be confusion.  You can disagree but i dont see what isnt clear here.

 

 

 

Yeah. Bergevin does ramble a bit (apparently also in French), but really his message was consistent and came through pretty clearly. He has a plan and he's sticking to it. The only question is whether it's the right plan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with his moves so far, with some high prices out there, i would have moved Petry and Tatar, if the deal made sense and maybe MB didn't get the return he wanted. 

 

Don'y have a problem building through the draft, i do have a problem with him saying other teams are bad at drafting too, so it's ok the habs suck at drafting because other teams do? That's not a plan, fix the problem 

 

I do have a problem with all his excuses and bad just bad luck excuses, give me a break. 

 

They have missed 4 out 5 years, what gives him any indication the core is good enough to make the playoffs? Replacing the plugs he traded this year for the plugs he will add next year does nothing. 

 

The coaching staff has no answers either, just we have to be better but they never are 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Prime Minister Koivu said:

No other team in the league will play weal/Cousins on the PP

 

They didn't play on the PP last year (Weal played a little at the end of the season), and the PP sucked balls last year. 

They produced on the PP this year and the PP is much better this year. 

 

Yeah they don't score a lot 5v5, but the PP has been much improved, so why is it a problem that they play on the PP?

 

I really don't get these complaints about power play personnel being wrong, when this year's personnel is producing so many more goals than last year.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

2) Forward depth will be signed in the off-season, I was fine with Thompson and Cousins. The Habs need a couple of those players, upgrades on what we are left with: Weal and Weise

3) I do not expect Romanov to be an impact player the first year; but like Emelin before him and Suziki this year, I expect progression.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with Alfredo, just a few additional thoughts.

  • Am not expecting Weise to get a new contract unless we really can't get anyone else. Evans, Kotkaniemi and Poehling should be (closer to being?) ready next year. Weal has, I think, been good enough that he should be able to earn a spot on the fourth line next year.
  • I certainly count Suzuki as an impact player for this year. Could Romanov have an impact next season? Maybe. He is 20 now and he does have two KHL seasons under his belt, that's much different to Kotkaniemi getting thrown in at (barely) 18.
  • Ylonen and Brook are both also 20 now. I suspect both would benefit from spending next season in Laval, though.
  • Will Juulsen and Ikonen have fully recovered? Even if yes, I think Laval would be good for them, too.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...