MAK Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) one'S our faithful captain and the other is big, offensive and right handed Edited December 6, 2007 by marky_and_komi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markierung Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 honestly... Sundin. Besides the leadership, the heart.....He's simply put a better hockey player who get's injured less often and who's salary is more proportional to his on ice production it pains me to say it though because I love Koivu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sorry guys, I'd take Sundin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 this is a dangerous thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Mats Sundin, without a second thought. Do I respect Koivu and find him an inspiration? Of course I do, you can't not have those thoughts about Saku. But when it comes to playing hockey, I want Mats Sundin on my team. There is no question that Sundin is a more effective hockey player than Koivu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Heart and leadership ....Saku hands down. Stats...Sundin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 In thier prime Sundin for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Very easy one. 1. Lemieux 2. Sakic 3. Lidstrom 4. Coffey 5. Sundin 30. Koivu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markierung Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Very easy one. 1. Lemieux 2. Sakic 3. Lidstrom 4. Coffey 5. Sundin 30. Koivu what exactly are we listing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sundin...not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Wow!! I'm surprised about the results. I thought there would be more sundin-sucks-because-he's-a-leafs replies. another arguement: koivu never passed the 2nd round, sundin did. while his playoffs stats wont throw you away, he dod manage to put some points here and there. this is a dangerous thread Not as much as I thought when I started it. In thier prime Sundin for sure. none of them are In their prime but I'd still take sundin any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 what exactly are we listing here? I was just showing how it was not even close by listing who i would have on my team first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sundin is obviously a higher calibre asset, but the comparison isn't apt. He's huge while Koivu is small, and he's a goal scorer while Koivu is more of a setup man. Koivu is also fragile while Sundin is made out of oak. It's too bad Koivu was injured so much during his career, who knows how much of it he was also playing injured and affecting his game? Sundin should be compared with Iginla, Lecavlier or THorton. Koivu is damned good though, and how many times on our terrible teams over the last 10 years has he been the only one making anything happen? He's definitely given us enough entertaining hockey and good memories. Even Sundin isn't enough to raise the leafs above mediocrity by himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Seems to me they've won the same number of Stanley Cup's. In fact, over the last decade, Sundin has played, on average, with better teams than has Saku. Last season Koivu and Sundin were at about the same level points-wise. (Yes, for the nitpickers out there, I know Sundin was a tad higher.) But the system of the two teams is *entirely* different. Put Koivu in a pure offensive role and he'd get far more as well. Oh, I know Sundin gets plenty of points and can do some things that Koivu can't - mostly because he's got the size that Koivu tries, and just cannot, play with. But I'd take Koivu any day of the week. Mind you, I think I would build a team far differently than most people out there. *shrugs* There's too much stat-watching from armchair GM's, in my opinion. Being a star isn't just about how much you produce - of course it's a large part of it - but there's so much more. Who here would prefer Yzerman early in his career when he was popping in 150 points to Yzerman later in his career when he was a complete player and consummate leader? And Yzerman, by NHL standards, was a pretty small centre. Class. Sundin doesn't have it. Even Leaf fans who are honest with themselves admit the same thing. He's not captain because others want him to be captain, he's there because his ego wouldn't let him be otherwise. Think he'd still be a Leaf if he wasn't the captain? Not a chance, he would have bolted for the bucks years ago. Koivu asked to prove himself after being injured on more than one occasion. Maybe that doesn't seem like it matters much to the on-ice stuff, but which player would you put more on the line for? If Sundin were half the *person* Koivu is, the Leafs would probably not still be dreaming about 1967. They've had the team to win the Cup a couple of times in Sundin's tenure, but haven't done it. There's also a lot of talk about Koivu's slumps. Does his level of play lower from time to time? For sure. Does he ever mail in a shift? Not a chance. He may look out of sorts on the ice, but it's not for lack of effort. In fact, the malaise for this current bunch of Habs, I believe, is less from the players and more from the "system." Carbo, for whatever reason, has lost the team to an extended slump again. Not a sign of a great coach - and obviously he didn't learn what he should have last season. Seems to me he has the inability to adjust. Montreal came out of the gate on fire, but teams adjusted to the Habs style of play. Instead of countering, we're just sticking with the same thing. And everyone is struggling, not just the captain. There's no cohesion on the ice from the goaltender forward. That tells me that practices are not going well - that there's a loss of focus. All side issues. Koivu - Sundin? Both excellent players. I'd take Koivu. Less points, more overall. Course, that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Colin I agree with just about everything you post here at Habsworld. Great thoughts as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 two completely different players. A Koivu vs. Adam Oates or somebody who is pass first, pass second, pass third then fourth shoot type of player would be more comparable in my opnion. Koivu isn't a goal scorer, Sundin is. Its like comparing Gainey to Coffey two completely different types of players, attitudes etc. Polar opposites who happen to be very good at their position but go about it in two completely different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Koivu isn't a goal scorer, Sundin is. Its like comparing Gainey to Coffey two completely different types of players, attitudes etc. Polar opposites who happen to be very good at their position but go about it in two completely different ways. we're comparing a european 1st centerman of his team to another european 1st centerman of his team..so quit it with that argument, you're doing more arm to your credibility than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sundin is a better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sundin's got the stats to back it up, but I can't help but think that if Koivu just wasn't nailed down by all those injuries, he'd have put up better. Let's put it this way - when Sundin gets going, even a big lug on defense like Derian Hatcher has a hard time knocking him down. Koivu, on the other hand, well he gets knocked down all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 we're comparing a european 1st centerman of his team to another european 1st centerman of his team..so quit it with that argument, you're doing more arm to your credibility than anything else How? Even if they play the same position they have two different styles of how to play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 How? Even if they play the same position they have two different styles of how to play it. Their styles of play aren't as vastly different as a defensive forward and an offensive defenseman. It is possible to compare two first line centermen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 How? Even if they play the same position they have two different styles of how to play it. But you act as if Sundin is only a scorer, which he isn't. He's quite a good passer. That's why he is better than Koivu, he has more all-around hockey talent and is a more complete player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Saku Koivu, because I love an underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 one'S our faithful captain and the other is big, offensive and right handed ................................and extremely frikkin ugly. Especially when he watches himself on the jumbo tron during replays, with his goofy mouth gaping open. KOIVU...........Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 ................................and extremely frikkin ugly. Especially when he watches himself on the jumbo tron during replays, with his goofy mouth gaping open. KOIVU...........Thanks! I dont have an opinion on men's look....except fot vermette, he's so cute !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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