sbhatt Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Koivu doesn't compete, he is a liability in PK and PP It's like the blinders have suddenly come off for so many here. Sucko needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Didn't take long for this thread to head in a predictable direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) We should work on a deal with Tampa for Richards. I would say Koivu, Latendresse and Emelin-Perezhogin rights. If that is not enough consider a goalie in the mix. Thank the Hockey gods you are not the General Manager of the Habs. That kind of a trade would be disastrous. Brad Richards was OVER-RATED. He's had one season where he scored more than 1 point per game. He's not very big, not very physical and his +/- rating of -23 this season should not come as a surprise to anyone. After all, he did finish with a -19 last season...why is everyone surprised by the -23 this season??? Let's not forget that at 7.8 million$, he's is way too expensive! Plus Latendresse is only 20 years old, and he's doing good for a kid. Imagine in 2 or 3 years how good he might become! Let,s not forget that Latendresse is also the type of Player the Habs desperately need, A POWER FORWARD! Edited January 22, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 What did he say? Smyth said Montreal made him a great offer but that he didn't think we would win any time soon. Whereas obviously Colorado is an unstoppable powerhouse... This Richards thing may or may not be a good idea, but it does strike me as another example of this harmful fetish for 'Big Names.' I guarantee you that Tampa would love to have our level of young talent. But people propose dealing that young talent for the Big Name...who, if he had a -21 with us, the same people would be running out of town on a rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Richards being linemates with the likes of Matheiu Darche and Andreas Karlsson couldn't possibly adverseley affect his +/-, could it? Or Tampa being without their #1 d-man all year? Or having a team goaltending SV% below .890? If people thought it was bad that Rucinsky was Koivu's main winger back in 2000, let me tell you this... Brad Richards is BEGGING for a Rucinsky quality linemate right now. If Juha Lind and Niklas Sundstrom were Koivu's wingers, this would be a good comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 It's like the blinders have suddenly come off for so many here. Sucko needs to go. People have been criticizing his play for ages. He doesn't 'need to go' though, the team has been playing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thank the Hockey gods you are not the General Manager of the Habs. That kind of a trade would be disastrous. Brad Richards was OVER-RATED. He's had one season where he scored more than 1 point per game. He's not very big, not very physical and his +/- rating of -23 this season should not caome as a surprise to anyone. After all, he did finish with a -19 last season...why is everyone surprised by the -23 this season??? Let's not forget that at 7.8 million$, he's is way too expensive! Plus LAtendresse is only 20 years old, and he's doing good for a kid. Imagine in 2 or 3 years how good he might become! Let,s not forget that LAtendresse is also the type of Player the Habs desperately need, A POWER FORWARD! About Richards i think that he is more OVERPLAYED than OVER-RATED. If he is used properly he will not be in the minus because he would be in a team thta has defense and goalies. Latendresse, a power forward? Dunno he misses something, he has no warrior blood. At the best he could be a big crafty forward. Gotta to give something to have something. Both Kots are meaner than him on the ice. I give more chances to Pacioretti to be a power forward with grit and a mean streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Latendresse, a power forward? Dunno he misses something, he has no warrior blood. At the best he could be a big crafty forward. Gotta to give something to have something. Both Kots are meaner than him on the ice. Too many people on these boards don't know what the meaning of PATIENCE is! The Kid is 20 years old. He's played in 100 NHL games, and we expect him to play like a 29 year old who's in the prime of his career?? Give him a couple more years...you're opinion of him will change. We have TOO many 5'10" - 5'11" - 6'0" players on this team. These types of players are a dime a dozen, but the talented Big Boys are very rare! And we need more big boys UP FRONT. Imagine when he'll be 25 years old, how "kick ass" he could become. He's only 20 years old, and already he's 6'2" and weighs 215-220pds. Imagine what it'll be like when that weight is transformed from baby fat in muscle!?! Imagine what kind of presence he will have on the ice, once he has more confidence. You kinow, the kind of confidence that comes only after 5 or 6 years in the league. I give more chances to Pacioretti to be a power forward with grit and a mean streak. Pacciorety will most likely be a 3rd line player. 22 to 25 goals per season. I don't call that a very talented POWER FORWARD. WE threw away a wonderful power forward 12 years ago...let's not make the same mistake again! Edited January 22, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Too many people on these boards don't know what the meaning of PATIENCE is! The Kid is 20 years old. He's played in 100 NHL games, and we expect him to play like a 29 year old who's in the prime of his career?? Give him a couple more years...you're opinion of him will change. We have TOO many 5'10" - 5'11" - 6'0" players on this team. These types of players are a dime a dozen, but the talented Big Boys are very rare! And we need more big boys UP FRONT. Imagine when he'll be 25 years old, how "kick ass" he could become. He's only 20 years old, and already he's 6'2" and weighs 215-220pds. Imagine what it'll be like when that weight is transformed from baby fat in muscle!?! Imagine what kind of presence he will have on the ice, once he has more confidence. You kinow, the kind of confidence that comes only after 5 or 6 years in the league. Pacciorety will most likely be a 3rd line player. 22 to 25 goals per season. I don't call that a very talented POWER FORWARD. WE threw away a wonderful power forward 12 years ago...let's not make the same mistake again! 1) I agree patience is needed. 2) I really don't care if a guy is 5'10" - 6'0" tall...if he's durable and strong enough he's fine. There are LOTS of guys who are/have been stars at 6' tall. 3) Latendresse should never have made the Canadiens and should be working on various facets of his game in the minors...and he shouldn't have made the club his rookie year. He'll start hitting his prime and want big $$$ and we'll have paid a guy to develop at NHL level salary only to potentially lose him via FA. 4) How many 3rd line power forwards score 25 goals?? Why do you think Pac will only be a 3rd liner? He's doing well currently and seems to project as better then that...what makes Lats a better prospect? It would not surprise me in the least if the organization thinks Pacioretty will be the better player... JMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 It's like the blinders have suddenly come off for so many here. Sucko needs to go. I don't question your right to have a negative opinion of Koivu, but why the derogatory name for a player who has shown nothing but heart and balls for the :hlogo: ? Also, no one in their right mind trades the inspirational captain of a team that has been around 4th in the conference all year long unless it is the deal of the century. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I don't question your right to have a negative opinion of Koivu, but why the derogatory name for a player who has shown nothing but heart and balls for the :hlogo: ? Also, no one in their right mind trades the inspirational captain of a team that has been around 4th in the conference all year long unless it is the deal of the century. JMHO He has shown very little in the way of heart or balls since January of last season. He is a liability more often than he is an asset this season, and that's just unacceptable for a team captain / highest paid player on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 The thing that shocks me about Koivu is that he has something like 67 PIMS right now, and is on pace for 115. And for 57 points, which would be his lowest injuryfree season point total since his rookie year in 1995. Is Koivu having a shit year so far? Yes. But he's fulfiling the role of captain fine, he is not a distraction to the team at all. Does that mean that he cannot bounce back? Hell no, look at Kovalev as a prime example - best forward this year, absolute dog of a year last season. But what I don't agree with and what I have no patience for is the shortsighted bunch who keep denigrating Koivu and demanding his trade - it's not exactly a new phenomenon in Montreal, but that doesn't make it acceptable. I seem to recall so many demanding Kovalev's trade after his atrocious play and media whining last season. It's a good thing Gainey didn't listen. He's the team captain, people. Bashing him and constantly pinning the blame on him for any percieved team shortcomings is ridiculous, especially when the team is 4th in the East. Show some faith, it's certain that he can play better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecurb Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 He has shown very little in the way of heart or balls since January of last season. He is a liability more often than he is an asset this season, and that's just unacceptable for a team captain / highest paid player on the team. I suspose similiar things could have been written about Kovalev last year. I know I talked to several Habs fans that thought he was finished and we should get rid of the bum. But, you could see that last year something was wrong with Kovalev, he was playing hurt. Maybe the same thing is up with Koivu, he might just be playing hurt. I thought Koivu started the year really strong. I have noticed that they have been trying just about everybody on his line at one point. I've also noticed that with the emergence of the Plekanec line his PP minutes have gone down. All of these could be effecting his point totals, although his PIM's are up this year. Maybe because we finally have some team depth Koivu is pacing himself for the battles sure to follow after the All-Star break. He wants to be healthy for a playoff run. Anyone of the above could be true and I'd love it if our whole team had his heart and balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) He's the team captain, people. Bashing him and constantly pinning the blame on him for any percieved team shortcomings is ridiculous, especially when the team is 4th in the East. So we should do what exactly? Just sit back and never critisize our UNDERPERFORMING players? Like the Leafs fans do? Hell no. Saku makes 4.75 million$ per year, and all we are getting out of him is 57 points. I'm sorry, but that's WHAT is unacceptable! I'm not saying that we should trade Koivu at all costs, In fact I've said over and over again, I'm confident that once the playoffs role along, Saku will bring his game up a notch or two. But If a very good offer for Koivu shows up on Bob's doorstep, he should take a very good look at it! He should not immediately discard the offer. You can't make these types of decisions with your heart. These decisions have to be made with your head. Even though Saku has been the heart of this team for the past 7-8 years, if a good offer shows up, he should be traded. Edited January 24, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) So we should do what exactly? Just sit back and never critisize our UNDERPERFORMING players? Like the Leafs fans do? Hell no. Saku make 4.75 million$ per year, and all we are getting out of him is 57 points. I'm sorry, but that's WHAT is unacceptable! I'm not saying that we should trade Koivu at all costs, In fact I've said over and over again, I'm confident that once the playofs role along, Saku will bring his game up a notch or two. But If a very good offer fro Koivu shows up on Bob's doorstep, he should take a very good look at it! He should not immediately discard the offer. You can't make these types of decisions with your heart. These decisions have to be made with your head. Even though Saku has been the heart of this team for the past 7-8 years, if a good offer shows up, he should be traded. Saku would only waive his NTC if it were to a contender I would presume. So since the Habs are 4th right now what does that leave 4-5 teams in the league that he would say yes to. But I agree he will pick up his game in March, he always does. Edited January 23, 2008 by JMMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Saku's not getting traded this year, guys. It'll be interesting to see how he views his season and his role in the offseason. I could see him having a good talk with Gainey at the end of the year and then come back re-energized for next year, finally accepted a lesser, but still important, role. I think he's a little stunned by the turn of events this year, and fully expected to once again be the go-to-guy on offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Saku's not getting traded this year, guys. It'll be interesting to see how he views his season and his role in the offseason. I could see him having a good talk with Gainey at the end of the year and then come back re-energized for next year, finally accepted a lesser, but still important, role. I think he's a little stunned by the turn of events this year, and fully expected to once again be the go-to-guy on offence. More like he was stunned/out of it, THEN he lost his role of being the go-to guy. I don't think he's done though, I was sure Kovalev was done after his last two seasons, and he's proved me wrong and then some. Koivu's having a down year, but he can still turn it around. I bet he'll be playing well come March. Anyways, no need for a shake up at this point. If we were currently out of playoff spot I'm certain Gainey wouldn't sit on his hands this year, and any player (besides our young core) would be open to consideration for a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I don't question your right to have a negative opinion of Koivu, but why the derogatory name for a player who has shown nothing but heart and balls for the :hlogo: ? Also, no one in their right mind trades the inspirational captain of a team that has been around 4th in the conference all year long unless it is the deal of the century. JMHO The last stretch and play-off run is where Saks comes alive. He'll get his chance this year. I'm all up for a major trade that would see Ryder and some prospects go for impact help for a run at the cup. But seriously, blinders coming off? I'm with you PMAC. Saks brings so much to this team, things we don't even know about on a daily basis. Just picture if we were to look at this through some posters eyes. Our first year in a long time we are challenging for first place. The league is starting to talk about how great the Habs are. And then Gainey trades the longest serving captain in Habland at the trade deadline. If that wouldn't throw a negative curveball through the entire dressing room I don't know what would. I think I'll just leave my blinders on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Maybe because we finally have some team depth Koivu is pacing himself for the battles sure to follow after the All-Star break. He wants to be healthy for a playoff run. Pacing himself. Not too sure about playing hurt either...because he doesn't look 'off' physically...not significantly, anyways. I think Koivu's problem is more mental than physical. Maybe Ryder's struggles sucked some of the life out of him early on, and he hasn't figured out how to get his enthusiasm back yet (I strongly suspect this was part of Kovalev's problem last year, with Samsonov being the culprit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Saku has as much power by and large as Sundin does in T.O. Koivu is driving the engine on that decision too. The only way he's traded is if he gets unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Pacing himself. Not too sure about playing hurt either...because he doesn't look 'off' physically...not significantly, anyways. I think Koivu's problem is more mental than physical. Maybe Ryder's struggles sucked some of the life out of him early on, and he hasn't figured out how to get his enthusiasm back yet (I strongly suspect this was part of Kovalev's problem last year, with Samsonov being the culprit). I feel that Koivu has a couple more gears for sure, and his paycheck has as much to do with his leadership qualities as it does with on-ice performance. You are not given the "C" because you score goals. He was great last night, just his passes didn't get buried as some of them should have. I think if your expecting 40 goals and 120 point season you will constantly be bummed because that's not who he is. Saks will bring his 100% game ......and we'll be praising him in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 You are not given the "C" because you score goals. ....unless your name is Sidney Crosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) Gainey might not even make a trade if he can help it. The faceoff issue is a concern but Gainey is known for not breaking up a room. On the contrary, that's why Ribs was moved. :hlogo: is for family. The room is a unit. I figure Gainey will acquire a upper echelon utility forward with class. Someone like Yelle comes to mind. Yelle could help us for sure! Edited January 24, 2008 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) Saku's not getting traded this year, guys. It'll be interesting to see how he views his season and his role in the offseason. I could see him having a good talk with Gainey at the end of the year and then come back re-energized for next year, finally accepted a lesser, but still important, role. I think he's a little stunned by the turn of events this year, and fully expected to once again be the go-to-guy on offence. That would not surprise me one bit! I think it's safe to say that we (habsfans) want to see Saku do well in a Red, White and Blue jersey. Let's just hope that he picks up his game before it's too late. I think Koivu's problem is more mental than physical. Maybe Ryder's struggles sucked some of the life out of him early on, and he hasn't figured out how to get his enthusiasm back yet (I strongly suspect this was part of Kovalev's problem last year, with Samsonov being the culprit). You might be onto something there! :?- Edited January 24, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I don't see a problem here, both Ryder and Higgins are playing like ass this season. Neither is finishing and Koivu is left to flap in the wind with poor wingers just like Plekanec had last year. Koivu is setting up Higgins every other play and fighting for puck control and it's for not as Higgins just shoots into the pads or crest. Koivu needs a legitamite 1st line winger/sniper now more than ever. Hell he has needed one for the past 5 years. Thats the biggest trade this team has needed but never gets done. Koivu wont be going anywhere, we are in the playoff hunt and not about to trade off our captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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