hab29RETIRED Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) With so many UFA/RFA's I've got 5 questions: 1. who do you absolutely do NOT want to see back with the team (including guys under contract)? 2. Who would you like to see move on, but don't think we can let them go, because they may not be a viable replacement? 3. Who do keep and build around or are best assets to get a real impact player? 4. Who from our prospects may be able to step in to turn things around? 5. Who do we actually have an honest chance to trade for or sign as a UFA? My picks for the above are as follows (excuse the spelling, too lazy to check): 1. Dandenault Brisbois Larauque - paying $1.5M for a guy who can only fight was one of the stupidest decision possible in a salary cap system Bouillon Metropolit Hamrlik - Doubt he can be moved at his current contract. I thought we overpaid him and gave him too long of a deal, he proved me wrong last year, but now he looks like the guy that Calgary fans complained about every year in the playoffs. 2. Kovolev - unless we can sign a replacment, as frustrating as he is, can we afford to let him go??? - I wouldn't mind giving him another shot if he was signed for $2M + performance incentives Koivu - I've got a Koivu jersey, love the heart he has shown, but he looks lwith all the injuries and the pounding the little guy has taken, he's done and may benefit going to Minnisota or somewhere and being re-vitalized. -question is can we replace him. Chipchura - I think he is probably a career minor leager - but should be good trade bait. 3. Listed in no particular order: Halak Price Markov A. Koistitsyn - should rebound next year, if we moved the brothers, should be able to get a true #1 centre as well. S. Koistitsyn Pacioretty Lapierre Latenderesse Gorges - I think he has been over-rated most of the year, and see him at best a #4 Lang - only if its for around $2.5M + incentives Komisarik (I'm not sure he'll want to stay after this nightmare season) Higgens - Is a guy that will probably flourish as soon as he leaves Montreal Tangauy - only if he is signed for under $4M - I think $3.5M is the most I'd be willing to give him. Kostopolous - I'd like to keep him - but not if he is looking for a big raise - a player in that role needs to be in the $1M range. Dagnistini Weber Stewart 4. Emelin - please come over and be the shut down D this team needs. PLease, we promise we won't make you learn french McDonough - would love to think he is ready, but will probably need 1-2 years in the minors Subban - probably 1-2 years away as well. 5. Beauchaman - could really help the D Bouwmester - the guy we should try for the hardest, but will NEVER will be willing to come to Montreal Komisarik - I think we have to treat him as outside help and really need to sell him on staying the way you would for an external UFA, coz after this year, i don't see him wanting to come back Cammelleri - could help, but I doubt he wants to be hear and probably wants to much money Lecavalier - I think we'd have to gut our top prospects and players to get him, especially after the comnents of our blow-hard President Boivan. Derek Morris - could help the D, but would probably cost too much Malkin/Stall - I think we should make a STRONG push for one of these centres from Pittsburgh - we have a lot of proming wingers to offer. and Pittsburgh can't keep the big 3 foreover Hossa - love to have him, but he won't want to come here Franzen - would love this guy - we need someone who isn't afraid to go to the net hard, but I think Detroit will re-sign him. BOTTOM LINE I doubt if we have much internally to help end the nightmare, if we do weed out the guys i've identfied, we have a LOT of holes to fill and I'm not very optimistic that we can turn things around. Last year the 5 K's (Kovolev, Koivu, Koisytsen, Koistitysen, Komisarik), Markov, Price and Hamrlik were all key to our success, along with Striet who walked. This year, from that group only Markov has played OK (not GREAT like last year). Next year from this group, the only players who I think can turn it around are Markov, the Koistitsyn brothers and Price. So there is going to be a LOT of work to get done this summer. Edited March 22, 2009 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysix Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) I can't stand Koivu anymore. That guy is the most overrated player in Habs history. Get him the F*ck outta here ! Edited March 22, 2009 by Jaysix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Koivu and Kovy have to go and be replace with more consistent, tougher leaders who can produce and lead the team. Not easy, but has to be done. Breezy is going to retire anyway. BGL is a waste of space. Cut him loose. The rest really depend on how much they are asking. If Komi wants to go to the islanders or some nut job GM wants to give him 5 million, then bye bye Komi. AK will probably be a lot better if he is playing with hard working guys who don't float (ie.. not Kovy), so I would be fine with resigning him. I would keep higgins if he is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koivu11 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Kovalev should go! Go back home russians we dont need you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Kovalev should go! Go back home russians we dont need you! Would you say that if we had Ovechkin or Malkin? I wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Kovalev should go! Go back home russians we dont need you! was that you that said that last year? i cant quite remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyckdkool Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 koivu is garbage, has been garbage his entire career. kovalev is garbage komiserik unless he signs for 3-4M/yr, he was exposed by Lucic, (nice draft Bob, what USA Hockey Highschooler did you take while he was still on the board) Brisby, did the best he could these past 2 yrs Bouillon, is what he is, but not worth any real money higgans, another great pick Bob, USA, USA, USA. georges, he is a good #6 D, he needs to start training with Baroid or Aroid, god is he a puke (by NHL standards) This team needs a legitimate #1 and #2 D, Markov is the biggest pansy Dman in the league, the master of the whiff hit and I will let you beat me to the puck so i can line you up for the big whiff b/c I am scared to go in the corner. The trade that never was and I always thought was going to be and should have was Jason Arnott, he would have fit the big centreman role that the Habs haven't had since, I don't know, a certain someone retired Bob. Boston is the barn boss of the division and will be until either Chara retires or leaves, he is not their biggest issue, the need someone who can muscle up on every other Bruin, he's a freak, but the rest of the teams runs around unpunished, phil kessel would be one of the toughest habs if he played in mtl. Montreal is soft, soft, soft, every team knows is and they show it every game. happy 100th Montreal, enjoy the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Im actually scared about the namespelling in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazer Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Looking at the 10 UFA listed on the contracts page and based on recent (and a bit of not so recent) performance at best 2 are worth keeping. I doubt any of the RFAs are going anywhere and the new players that will come via UFA will provide the change needed so that 'keeping' the RFAs won't mean not shaking up the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) I can't stand Koivu anymore. That guy is the most overrated player in Habs history. Get him the F*ck outta here ! This sums up my feelings nicely, except you can take the 'anymore' part out., because I have never liked him as a player. Edited March 22, 2009 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Everyone who is a UFA, and possibly a RFA or 2. They'll have 30 mill to start over. Gte soem players with actual character and some balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Rofl @ Koivu bashing. When it comes to Koivu i'm with CJAD's Abe Hefter. Edited March 23, 2009 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) I would get rid if Kovy, Breezer, and Schneider. Everyone else (including Lang) plays again. Wow, is Koivu bashing trendy or what? Too bad it's pretty much all bull and he's obviously resigning with the team. Obviously he's no point per game player, but 39 points in 55 games is a better ration than most players on the team. But expecting anything other than knee-jerk reactions on this forum is asking for too much. Edited March 23, 2009 by ForumGhost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) I'd get rid of them all except ofr Komisarek, Kostopoulos and Tanguay. Bye bye Saku, Bye bye Kovalev!! Au revoir Bouillon, Dandy, Schneider, Metropolit and Breezer!!! I'd even seriously consider trading Higgins away. With so many UFA/RFA's I've got 5 questions: 1. who do you absolutely do NOT want to see back with the team (including guys under contract)? 2. Who would you like to see move on, but don't think we can let them go, because they may not be a viable replacement? 3. Who do keep and build around or are best assets to get a real impact player? 4. Who from our prospects may be able to step in to turn things around? 5. Who do we actually have an honest chance to trade for or sign as a UFA? 1. Koivu, Kovalev, Dandy, Breezer, 2. Kovalev 3. Komisarek, Pacioretty, LaPierre, Latendresse, 4. Subban, Weber, Emelin 5. Anybody with some heart and I'd be happy! Edited March 23, 2009 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Have to keep Laps, Lats, Kosto, AK46, Markov and Komi (he'll get going again). Kovy, Koivu etc can stay for reduced salary + salary perks based on performance. Just need to look at who got things going for that brief period on SAT night, it was 100% on the heart guys like Laps/Lats, they brought it almost every shift while the rest sat on the bench and followed it up with sweet F all. Gainey isn't stupid he knows who is playing for him and who isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 With so many UFA/RFA's I've got 5 questions: 1. who do you absolutely do NOT want to see back with the team (including guys under contract)? 2. Who would you like to see move on, but don't think we can let them go, because they may not be a viable replacement? 3. Who do keep and build around or are best assets to get a real impact player? 4. Who from our prospects may be able to step in to turn things around? 5. Who do we actually have an honest chance to trade for or sign as a UFA? 1. Kovalev is my only absolute one that I want gone, with Koivu as a more than likely second to simply change the dynamic of the dressing room/quit investing in older declining assets. I feel no need for the team to make competitive offers to the following: Bouillon, Brisebois, Dandenault, Schneider, and even Higgins as a RFA. Trading Higgins seems like the most productive scenario, since there is no way we should commit to a long term contract with him given our LW depth, his seemingly abrasive attitude this year, and his drop in production. At worst, he goes to arbitration and gets a one year deal that seems inflated. Hamrlik is a contract we should try and move, but I doubt we can totally get rid of... it's one that would likely have to see us take on a Nylander type contract in return (another one no one wants), and I don't know if that is worth doing. The important thing with Hamrlik's deal is that we should not let Komisarek walk on account of the money Hamrlik is getting, or stop a UFA bid for another blueliner on account of Hamrlik's salary and some kind of D money vs. F money imbalance. 2. Koivu kind of fits this category to a degree, given our lack of C depth and the lack of C depth in the system. However, a C corps built around Plekanec and Lapierre, with let's say a healthy Lang returning isn't terrible. It isn't ideal, but it doesn't force anyone into a role they haven't played before. Metropolit and Chipchura can play on the 4th line, and Maxwell can continue to gain experience in the AHL as Hamilton's top centre. 3. You try to keep everyone under age 30 except for Higgins, who you move to obtain value in another area (likely futures). Despite the struggles of some players in this category, they still remain quality players that should produce good results in the next little while. There are limits to how much guys like Komisarek, Plekanec and Tanguay should be given on new deals, but ideally you try and keep them. Lang you bring back with a bonus structured contract due to his injury. When he got injured, our 5 on 5 game went south. He's old, so you can't expect too much from him, but he's worth keeping around short term. From this base, you are generally retaining the team's best assets. Whether there's enough there to acquire an impact player via trade depends on who we're trading with, I guess. 4. "Turn things around" is quite a tricky phrasing, I'd simply like to say "who can step into the lineup?". You hope younger roster players like Latendresse, Lapierre, O'Byrne, Halak, Price, Pacioretty, the Kostitsyns, Gorges, D'Agostini, and Stewart can make steps forward from their current roles so that rookies coming up don't have to take on roles they can't handle. As for players not on the roster that are close, obviously that includes Weber, Chipchura, Subban, Emelin, Korneev, Maxwell... I don't know if any of these guys can step into anything but a supporting role next season. None seem likely to be top 6 forwards or top 4 d-men in 2009-10. 5. We don't actually know who will be available on July 1 right now... even guys that are likely to not re-sign with their current teams (Bouwmeester, Hossa) could be dealt to a team they do sign with like what happened with Timmonen and Hartnell a couple years ago. As for who will honestly sign here, I don't know. You have to create a list of players, start at the top, and work your way down. Obviously, you work on plan B while you're working on plan A, and make quick decisions to pull out of deals depending on what kind of response you get. Some asides... no one on this current team deserves to make as much money as Andrei Markov. In fact, if the 3 players I ideally want to re-sign cost more than $14m total in cap space, I think we should walk away from one of them. I am hopeful those 3 can be retained for a little less, but you never know in this industry. $14m for those 3 puts us at about $38.5m committed to 15 players for next year. There should be enough to land a big fish from the UFA pool and fill the remaining spots with cheap, young talent (including Latendresse, D'Agostini, Stewart, Chipchura, adding a rookie D or two; plus bringing back Lang and Kostopolous). I'm not trying to do anything truly radical here, or re-inventing the wheel. I'm simply looking at who gives us the best total value and moving forward from there. I am trying to be logical, taking emotion out of the equation and making sound calls on our current team. The Higgins decision is probably the most contentious here... similar decisions have been made in recent years with 25-27 year old players coming off bad years (Ribeiro, Ryder) that haven't worked out on some level. But given our depth of young players at the LW position, plus trying to re-sign Tanguay in my scenario (who I've essentially decided to keep long term over Higgins), I am comfortable in trading him even if the return will be considered a steal by the team that acquires him. Moving forward, I estimate about $44-45m on this roster: Tanguay - Plekanec - A Kostitsyn Pacioretty - Lang - S Kostitsyn Latendresse - Lapierre - D'Agostini Stewart - Metropolit - Kostopolous Laraque/Chipchura Markov - Komisarek Hamrlik - Gorges Emelin? - O'Byrne Weber (or Korneev) Price/Halak Adding a UFA to this mix would obviously bump a player off this roster, so while Bouwmeester or Hossa might cost $8m or so, you can subtract around $850,000 for each player that doesn't make the cut anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Saskhab, I think it depends on the coach for some of these guys. My gut tells me alot of players won't be around next year and you'll see 3-4 new faces. Preferably on the back end. The D you have listed is no better then this years team, which could be the league's worst. So if they bring in a "teacher type" coach Lever who knows trhe youth, you may want to sign Komi, if not he can be easily upgraded. O'Byrne is a #7 at best. Weber might jump in right next to Hamrlik. Emelin might make a go as well. If they get Hartley as a coach, they will go after a few big guns to bring in and try to get some help immediately. Hartley did coach Tanguay i beleive in Colorado. I wouldn't re sign Lang, i would go after a younger faster centre, camalari. Or via trade as you said with Higgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Saskhab, I think it depends on the coach for some of these guys. My gut tells me alot of players won't be around next year and you'll see 3-4 new faces. Preferably on the back end. The D you have listed is no better then this years team, which could be the league's worst. So if they bring in a "teacher type" coach Lever who knows trhe youth, you may want to sign Komi, if not he can be easily upgraded. O'Byrne is a #7 at best. Weber might jump in right next to Hamrlik. Emelin might make a go as well. If they get Hartley as a coach, they will go after a few big guns to bring in and try to get some help immediately. Hartley did coach Tanguay i beleive in Colorado. I wouldn't re sign Lang, i would go after a younger faster centre, camalari. Or via trade as you said with Higgins. Oh I agree on the D (and coaching aspect). I still have Jay-Bo as my #1 dream UFA signing so if you slid Jay Bo on there that makes that group collectively a lot better. In fact, if you got Jay Bo, that's when a Hamrlik for Nyalnder style of trade (one team's garbage for another team's garbage) might start to make some sense. Or you just wait out the final two years on his deal, maybe put him on re-entry the next summer to expediate things. Tanguay would probably stick around for both Hartley and Roy as possible coaching candidates, from the Colorado connections/success, for example. And like I said, there are financial limits to re-signing any of these players, and I gave that $14m cumulative and no one makes as much as Markov guideline for a real reason. Guys like Lang or Kostopolous aren't priority re-signings, they can become UFA's, I'm just plugging them in there as guys that I'm willing to bring back. Cammalleri is getting all his goals this year as a LW, BTW. Langkow was his C first and now it's Jokinen. Cammalleri was usually a C for Los Angeles, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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