JoeLassister Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Enough with trading centers. Let's sign another center, better than Koivu, it's about time to make this guy our 2nd line center, the place he deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why am I full of it? Tell me what he has done and led this team to. What's funny is that the same people bash Sundin, say how bad he is but he and Koivu have not led there respective teams anywhere. Sundin has more points and gold medals. Koivu does not. I like Koivu as a player but until someone gives me good facts as to his great leadership abilities, i stand by my statements. I don't care if you defend him everyday on this board, the facts don't lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 You are correct Koivu has 0 cups that fact does not lie but to say he is not a leader is crazy. He is almost a ppg player in the playoffs and the Canadiens have shown time and time again they crumble when he is out of the line-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I agree he is the best Habs player, but let's be honest, they crumble when he is in the line up. He hasn't brought them to the playoffs nearly enough to be a great leader. I like the ppg stat, but he hasn't played in too many playoff games. I also agree he has very little help, it would be interesting to see him him on a real good roster. Whether that's in a Habs uniform or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) The Habs would have made the playoffs last year if Kovalev was with Koivu as often as he was with Samsonov. Koivu should have been playing with the most talented player on the team, becuase he makes them play better. Just take a look at Selanne's stats with and without Koivu in international play. Edited May 9, 2007 by JMMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Well we can agree to disagree but there were way more problems with the team then Kovalev and Koivu not being paired together. 1. No work ethic 2. No work ethic 3. Defense was pathetic 4. No 5 on 5 offense 5. Goaltending streaky at best 6. Too soft, too small. 7. No work ethic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Well we can agree to disagree but there were way more problems with the team then Kovalev and Koivu not being paired together. 1. No work ethic 2. No work ethic 3. Defense was pathetic 4. No 5 on 5 offense 5. Goaltending streaky at best 6. Too soft, too small. 7. No work ethic You forgot to mention the lack of work ethic.... I would trade Saku for the right guy, but I prefer they bring in a number one center and keep Saku on number 2 line.. then we might have an offense. Saku is a good little player, but he is over valued in Montreal, imo. Some people act like he is Gretzky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Yea, i hear you. Like Bobby Orr, i mean Souray. It happens alot with Habs fans i've noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Koivu is a 70-point centreman AND he's clearly on the back nine of his career, with an injury-damaged body to boot. He is hardly untouchable. Having said that, he IS the kind of guy you win Cups with. He's always come up huge in the playoffs and is one of the great leaders in hockey. (People who argue otherwise, usually on grounds that he's never one anything, are simply out of their minds. Not even Maurice Richard coiuld have won anything with the crap Koivu's been surrounded with). If you're going to trade him, it had better be for somebody younger, with better numbers, and a proven playoff track record, preferably a Cup ring or two. In other words, a trade in which the other team is knowingly giving up the better player in return for salary savings and the many intangibles Koivu brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 How does this work? e1, e2, e5? What's she hearing? I'm hearing stuff as well. Mathieu Garon to: Detroit, Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, Boston, Anaheim, Buffalo, Pittsburgh or Washington. Wanna bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Why am I full of it? Tell me what he has done and led this team to....the facts don't lie. Koivu est un champion, a indiqué Gainey. Il pense comme un champion, joue comme un champion et s’entraîne comme un champion. Grâce à lui, la Finlande est passée bien près de remporter la médaille d’or aux derniers Jeux olympiques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Koivu est un champion, a indiqué Gainey. Il pense comme un champion, joue comme un champion et s’entraîne comme un champion. Grâce à lui, la Finlande est passée bien près de remporter la médaille d’or aux derniers Jeux olympiques. Hear hear. Asking Koivu to have won a Cup in Montreal as 'proof' of leadership is preposterous. You'd need to be Superman - or maybe God - to win with the crap the Habs have iced since 1996. Even Gretzky and Messier lost way more than they won, with far, far better teams, for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 CFPOSI, superstars carry a team but look where they end up? They end like the Habs under Koivu's leadership. NO WHERE. KOIVU has led this team NO where. Unless you have evidence to the contrary. So by your standards if you haven't won a Stanley Cup then you don't amount to a leader? Only one team can win the big one every year, so that must leave a lot of non-leaders out there? Following that type of logic then there are a hell of a lot of high calibre players out there that made their way through the NHL over the decades that weren't very good leaders, just because they never had a team good enough to win it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) So by your standards if you haven't won a Stanley Cup then you don't amount to a leader? Only one team can win the big one every year, so that must leave a lot of non-leaders out there? Following that type of logic then there are a hell of a lot of high calibre players out there that made their way through the NHL over the decades that weren't very good leaders, just because they never had a team good enough to win it? Yep, Koivu is a goof because he failed in the Olympics. I guess Chelios is a bum and not a leader for screwing up in 2002 with team USA when :can: won And to think that Gretzky let us lose in Nagano as captain, what a hoser eh? Edited May 9, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 So does that mean that guys like Iggy and Smyth are crap leaders? What about Brind'Amour? Was he a crap leader up until last year? Is someone like Justin Williams is more of a leader than Koivu simply because Williams has a Cup ring and Koivu doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 All those guys you mentioned make the playoffs on a regular basis. They also make the players around them better. I have not seen that with Koivu. That's all, i don't hate the guy or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Habby2919 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 What ever happend to the rumours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 What ever happend to the rumours? It's that time of year I guess..... flowers are blooming & the birds are singing. You know, the time of year when we all stretch our legs and quarrel over nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 One man does not a team make. Koivu has been dragging this carcass of a team for ages and now people turn and lay the blame on him...for shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch_nl Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Saku is a great player and a great guy. He's not... The captain that will alone bring a cup to Montreal. The player who's great in 82 games. The dude that will stay healthy season after season. Wayne Gretzky or Mark Messier. Swedish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Saku is a great player and a great guy. He's not... The captain that will alone bring a cup to Montreal. The player who's great in 82 games. The dude that will stay healthy season after season. Wayne Gretzky or Mark Messier. Swedish. That's a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Koivu just needs a complement to the team. I can understand why Gainey wanted Arnott and Shanahan. BTW: The best player on a team doesn't always wear the C anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 All those guys you mentioned make the playoffs on a regular basis. They also make the players around them better. I have not seen that with Koivu. That's all, i don't hate the guy or anything. Koivu does make players better! Check out Selanne's stats with and without Koivu in international competitions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Koivu just needs a complement to the team. I can understand why Gainey wanted Arnott and Shanahan. BTW: The best player on a team doesn't always wear the C anyway. Totally agree. And Dark Faerie, I LOVE your avatar right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Totally agree. And Dark Faerie, I LOVE your avatar right now! Heheh, it's a bit of an inside joke, but thanks anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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