Permanent Rumour Thread

[Commandant]

Aren't they both UFA's ? If so,why would the rules be different

Parise is UFA July 2012.... He was on a one year deal, so could start negotiating an extension in January 2012 (6 months before his deal expires)

Getzlaf is UFA in July 2013.... He was on a multi year deal, so he can start negotiating one year before it expires... but that isn't until July 1st 2012. So they can't grant us permission to talk an extension, as under the CBA he can't even talk extension with the Ducks yet. (by rule anyway, this stuff probably happens especially when its your own player).

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Not a fan of brisson. havent huidden from the fact that I really want McGuire but I also love the information that Damphousse has with the CBA, agents and players.

I'm curious, why would you want Pierre McGuire? What has he proven to you?

It's good to remember that the Minnesota Wild rejected him over Chuck Fletcher.

[Commandant]

I had a dream we traded Price and Subban for Parise, Henrique and a 1st. Darren Dutchy is always the guy who announces trades in a hockey dream. Not sure why Parise would re-sign with us but I'm sure Commandant has a comment on why I'm dreaming about Parise

I question it when my g/f wakes up saying she was dreaming of Parise.

What you do in your own dreams is your business, pal.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Despite my initial negativity about the idea, I'd be willing to give Damphousse a try. He does project calmness and does know the game and its business. But I'd prefer that we snag a qualified assistant GM. What I don't want are hotheads likely to melt down or over-react in the pressure-cooker. That rules out Roy and Macguire.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I question it when my g/f wakes up saying she was dreaming of Parise.

What you do in your own dreams is your business, pal.

He's certainly a pretty man. My real psychological issue is why Darren Dutchy is the guy who always comes up in my dreams whenever I dream of a hockey trade or announcement. I guess the others just aren't good enough.

[Commandant]

Despite my initial negativity about the idea, I'd be willing to give Damphousse a try. He does project calmness and does know the game and its business. But I'd prefer that we snag a qualified assistant GM. What I don't want are hotheads likely to melt down or over-react in the pressure-cooker. That rules out Roy and Macguire.

Roy has done an excellent job GMing in Quebec. I'm convinced he understands how to handle things and won't melt down when it comes to GM decisions. I think with those things he knows how to step back and take a minute before doing something stupid.

Its behind the bench, when the game is on... or on the ice when the game is on, that I worry about him melting down.

That said, my preference is still Lacroix as GM, Roy as coach; until Roy is ready to be GM.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Roy has done an excellent job GMing in Quebec. I'm convinced he understands how to handle things and won't melt down when it comes to GM decisions.

Well, now that I've finally settled in my own mind that Gauthier needs to go, I'm much more open to these possibilities. Roy would be a bold gamble and his star power would unquestionably neutralize the media jackals for a couple of years; these are big pluses. The key question to me is not whether Roy's made good moves as a GM but whether the overall operation he's running is characterized by competence and class throughout - more than a wins-losses question, but important for the longer term health of the team. I don't know the answer to this question. If it's "yes" then I guess I'd have no beef with bringing Roy aboard.

[kenadian]

Question then becomes would a "rookie frenchman" GM be better than an "experienced anglophone" GM

[Commandant]

Well, now that I've finally settled in my own mind that Gauthier needs to go, I'm much more open to these possibilities. Roy would be a bold gamble and his star power would unquestionably neutralize the media jackals for a couple of years; these are big pluses. The key question to me is not whether Roy's made good moves as a GM but whether the overall operation he's running is characterized by competence and class throughout - more than a wins-losses question, but important for the longer term health of the team. I don't know the answer to this question. If it's "yes" then I guess I'd have no beef with bringing Roy aboard.

Competence? I'd have to say, yes, absolutely.... the team is always a threat in the QMJHL, and has won a Mem Cup since he's been there. Very well run organization in terms of results.

Class?

Two things here: The players adore Roy, he gets them to play for him, and they generally leave saying very good things about him and the way the org is run.

However there has been some famous meltdowns, such as the beat down incident with his son beating up the other goalie, and a few other things that if they happened in Montreal would have been huge blowups. That said, its a symptom of Roy's competitveness. There are few people in the world who absolutely hate losing as much as Roy and this is what made him great as a player, and what is doing the same for him in management. If I can get that fire, I am willing to take the good and the bad that will happen, but its not like the bad is on a regular basis or anything. We're talking 2 or 3 incidents in like a decade.

I do think that there is a difference between GMing the Q; and again Roy has been great at that, better GM than Coach IMO.... and GMing the NHL though. So I'd rather see 2-3 years of Lacroix teaching him the ropes.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Question then becomes would a "rookie frenchman" GM be better than an "experienced anglophone" GM

Depends on the franco and depends on the anglo.

Seriously, it's hard to boil these things down to that. I'd take Patrick Roy over Mike Milbury, but I wouldn't over Ken Holland.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Competence? I'd have to say, yes, absolutely.... the team is always a threat in the QMJHL, and has won a Mem Cup since he's been there. Very well run organization in terms of results.

Class?

Two things here: The players adore Roy, he gets them to play for him, and they generally leave saying very good things about him and the way the org is run.

However there has been some famous meltdowns, such as the beat down incident with his son beating up the other goalie, and a few other things that if they happened in Montreal would have been huge blowups. That said, its a symptom of Roy's competitveness. There are few people in the world who absolutely hate losing as much as Roy and this is what made him great as a player, and what is doing the same for him in management. If I can get that fire, I am willing to take the good and the bad that will happen, but not on a regular basis or anything.

I do think that there is a difference between GMing the Q; and again Roy has been great at that, better GM than Coach IMO.... and GMing the NHL though. So I'd rather see 2-3 years of Lacroix teaching him the ropes.

Good analysis as usual. It's an interesting question, how much experience you need before becoming an NHL GM. Mike Gillis was a simple player agent before taking over Vancouver, and he definitely was a good choice. It was long ago, but Serge Savard basically jumped from player to GM with considerable success. Conversely, Gauthier had extensive NHL-level managerial credentials, yet here we are arguing he should be canned. I think, ultimately, relevant experience can come in different forms and that the character of the person you're hiring for GM may be as important as his credentials. Roy brings relevant credentials - not comprehensive, not perfect, but plausible - and his character brings some extreme strengths and dangers. That's why he's a bold choice, neither a safe choice nor a crazy one. Your 'Lacroix as mentor' idea is interesting. Whether it'd work is another question. Roy is not good as second banana under any circumstances.

[Commandant]

The reason i pick Lacroix is that he has the established relationship with Roy, and the GM experience to make this work. I don't know of anybody else who fits that bill as well.

Roy is ego driven as well, and I can't see him working under just anybody. It needs to be the right guy, and someone he respects, or they will clash.

I also think Roy and Lacroix will both recognize that its a short term position for Lacroix and the reigns will eventually be Roys. I don't see Lacroix wanting the job long term, and so I don't see a power struggle coming out of it.

Other guys Roy respects have issues.

Marc Crawford - never been a GM.

Jacques Demers - please god no.

Serge Savard - been away from the game too long.

Bob Gainey - I think we want this regime out.

Anybody got any other names, who would command that respect from Roy and been a successful GM?

[Seb]

I'm intrigued by Claude Loiselle. From what I've heard, he's a smart, level headed lawyer, had a good career in the NHL, franco and is currently the Leafs' capologists. As far as bringing in Lacroix to mentor, why would he? He'd be grooming someone to take his job? It doesn't work that way. Loiselle is being groomed by Brian Burke in Toronto, and though I'm not big on Burke and his ego, as a manager, I like him. He's bold, he's clear in his demands of the team, he's clear about what he wants his team to be, and he surrounds himself with as many of the best hockey minds he can (Loiselle, Nonis, Dudley, Nieuwendyk[gone now, but he advised there for a while, didnt he?]). I think Burke's ego issue is more of an aside to his managerial skills and philosophy, as opposed to his GMing being dependent on his attitude. Therefore I think it's legitimate to assume Loiselle would have had a good chance to watch Burke work, and be involved in the group decision process. Say what you want about Burke, but I'd rather have him than Gauthier as GM right now. I still hate the leafs, though.

(And no one better say "no way, he works for the leafs, I hate the leafs!". This isn't grade 4.)

Article on Loiselle at EOTP: http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2012/1/1/2675104/claude-loiselle-to-be-habs-next-gm

Barring any other superstar franco candidates, this is the guy I'd want to see given an opportunity. (And yes, the GM will have to be franco.)

[Willey101]

I'm curious, why would you want Pierre McGuire? What has he proven to you?

It's good to remember that the Minnesota Wild rejected him over Chuck Fletcher.

I will be honest to say that the primary reason is his passion. I am fed up of seeing a bunch of robots lead this organization with absolutely no emotion. I want to see spark, and a guy who'll speak his mind and invoke some of that almost errogance that this organization once had.

I am a pretty honest person who can admit when wrong, and so admit that McGuire would be a risk. He has said comments, praised certian moves that backfried, criticiszed some moves that worked out well. I think that this is part of any GM. To admit when wrong, and learn from those mistakes.

But despite some of the things he's said I find that he is right far more often than he is wrong.

Whether it be the acquisition of Gomez, Cammallari, Spacek, Laraque, Kaberle, etc.... and to be honest I don;t understand the negative comments people make towards what he sad against Price. Yes Price is a great goalie, I'm not denying it and never did McGuire it just wasn;t an organizational need. I can only imagine how much different this team would be had we had him at the GM position.

The reason i pick Lacroix is that he has the established relationship with Roy, and the GM experience to make this work. I don't know of anybody else who fits that bill as well.

Roy is ego driven as well, and I can't see him working under just anybody. It needs to be the right guy, and someone he respects, or they will clash.

I also think Roy and Lacroix will both recognize that its a short term position for Lacroix and the reigns will eventually be Roys. I don't see Lacroix wanting the job long term, and so I don't see a power struggle coming out of it.

Other guys Roy respects have issues.

Marc Crawford - never been a GM.

Jacques Demers - please god no.

Serge Savard - been away from the game too long.

Bob Gainey - I think we want this regime out.

Anybody got any other names, who would command that respect from Roy and been a successful GM?

Damphousse as teammates and also for what he has done at the CBA table with NHLPA and players?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The biggest reason I do not want McGuire is that I cannot stand people who take up broadcast positions and expect those public positions to get them hockey jobs. McGuire hasn't coached in the NHL since 1996 and hasn't ever been a GM. He isn't grinding his teeth in the juniors like Patrick Roy is. He's just an analyst who has extensive U.S. College hockey experience. He also cares more about potential than results, as seen from whenever he analyzes a hockey player. It isn't his opinions on Price that have bothered me the most but his opinions on Lars Eller. Eller was praised by pretty much everyone *except* McGuire who claimed Eller would never be a goal scorer in the NHL. Where is he getting such an opinion? From what most have said, it is due to his silly grudge against Pierre Gauther. I don't want a guy like that.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Machine of Loving Grace

[Willey101]

I think it is McGuire's opinions of Eller which actually give reason for his potential success. Whereas most people had Eller as an elite player Mcguire said straight out he would never be a goal scorer which right now he is dead on. Eller has the potential to be a really good player. He has a hard shot, can stick handle, is big and strong and can play a 2 way game but he's not proven he can be a goal scorer at any level. In other words dead on assessment,.

[REV-G]

Competence? I'd have to say, yes, absolutely.... the team is always a threat in the QMJHL, and has won a Mem Cup since he's been there. Very well run organization in terms of results.

Class?

Two things here: The players adore Roy, he gets them to play for him, and they generally leave saying very good things about him and the way the org is run.

However there has been some famous meltdowns, such as the beat down incident with his son beating up the other goalie, and a few other things that if they happened in Montreal would have been huge blowups. That said, its a symptom of Roy's competitveness. There are few people in the world who absolutely hate losing as much as Roy and this is what made him great as a player, and what is doing the same for him in management. If I can get that fire, I am willing to take the good and the bad that will happen, but its not like the bad is on a regular basis or anything. We're talking 2 or 3 incidents in like a decade.

I do think that there is a difference between GMing the Q; and again Roy has been great at that, better GM than Coach IMO.... and GMing the NHL though. So I'd rather see 2-3 years of Lacroix teaching him the ropes.

Interesting thought about Roy being our coach or GM [for me he'd have to first be our coach] and the concern about him having a meltdown. I was listening to Doug McLean on a talk show last week and he was talking about a well known person he worked with who had just died. This guy was a GM and McLean absolutely adored this guy but he said this guy had a meltdown in the pressbox every night. McLean said the guy fired him at least 8 times, although it never ended up actually happening. It got to the point where McLean said he asked ahead to be seated at the other end of the press box so as not to have to endure the fits this guy would take every game. He and Jacques Martin were working for the guy, who was the GM of the St. Louis Blues at the time. Who was he?? The Professor, Ron Caron.

I would take him, or someone like him, because their whole life is dedicataed to building a winning team. I was actually not too open to having Patrick Roy become part of our team only because of that fire and unpredicability. But when I thought of Ron Caron and his actions and success and how the people around him were intimidated by him but still worked for him and spoke highly of him later, maybe Patrick is what we need??

But I think there are two key incredients he must have. A winning record and a well run, classy organization. If he has both, that might be the best choice.

[Commandant]

I'm intrigued by Claude Loiselle. From what I've heard, he's a smart, level headed lawyer, had a good career in the NHL, franco and is currently the Leafs' capologists. As far as bringing in Lacroix to mentor, why would he? He'd be grooming someone to take his job? It doesn't work that way. Loiselle is being groomed by Brian Burke in Toronto, and though I'm not big on Burke and his ego, as a manager, I like him. He's bold, he's clear in his demands of the team, he's clear about what he wants his team to be, and he surrounds himself with as many of the best hockey minds he can (Loiselle, Nonis, Dudley, Nieuwendyk[gone now, but he advised there for a while, didnt he?]). I think Burke's ego issue is more of an aside to his managerial skills and philosophy, as opposed to his GMing being dependent on his attitude. Therefore I think it's legitimate to assume Loiselle would have had a good chance to watch Burke work, and be involved in the group decision process. Say what you want about Burke, but I'd rather have him than Gauthier as GM right now. I still hate the leafs, though.

(And no one better say "no way, he works for the leafs, I hate the leafs!". This isn't grade 4.)

Article on Loiselle at EOTP: http://www.habseyeso...be-habs-next-gm

Barring any other superstar franco candidates, this is the guy I'd want to see given an opportunity. (And yes, the GM will have to be franco.)

Why would Lacroix take a short term position and groom someone to take his job?

He's older, he's already stepped down as GM of Colorado because he doesn't want that full time responsibility, and he's ready to move on to the next stage in his career. His ambition is not to be a GM for the next 10 years, he'd take the job merely as a mentor, and be willing to train his replacement because he realizes his age is up there and his career is winding down. its not like you have a 45 year old Lacroix training a 45 year old Roy to take his job, you have a guy who is nearing retirement training his successor.

I will be honest to say that the primary reason is his passion. I am fed up of seeing a bunch of robots lead this organization with absolutely no emotion. I want to see spark, and a guy who'll speak his mind and invoke some of that almost errogance that this organization once had.

I am a pretty honest person who can admit when wrong, and so admit that McGuire would be a risk. He has said comments, praised certian moves that backfried, criticiszed some moves that worked out well. I think that this is part of any GM. To admit when wrong, and learn from those mistakes.

But despite some of the things he's said I find that he is right far more often than he is wrong.

Whether it be the acquisition of Gomez, Cammallari, Spacek, Laraque, Kaberle, etc.... and to be honest I don;t understand the negative comments people make towards what he sad against Price. Yes Price is a great goalie, I'm not denying it and never did McGuire it just wasn;t an organizational need. I can only imagine how much different this team would be had we had him at the GM position.

Damphousse as teammates and also for what he has done at the CBA table with NHLPA and players?

Damphousse is still a rookie GM.

Damphousse/Roy could result in a power struggle as both have the same ambitions.

[Willey101]

Why would Lacroix take a short term position and groom someone to take his job?

He's older, he's already stepped down as GM of Colorado because he doesn't want that full time responsibility, and he's ready to move on to the next stage in his career. His ambition is not to be a GM for the next 10 years, he'd take the job merely as a mentor, and be willing to train his replacement because he realizes his age is up there and his career is winding down. its not like you have a 45 year old Lacroix training a 45 year old Roy to take his job, you have a guy who is nearing retirement training his successor.

Damphousse is still a rookie GM.

Damphousse/Roy could result in a power struggle as both have the same ambitions.

It could but I don't want Roy as part of this organization at all.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Damphousse is still a rookie GM.

Damphousse/Roy could result in a power struggle as both have the same ambitions.

Does Roy and Damphousse have a good relationship? They both seem like passionate guys. Maybe Roy could see having open communication with Damphousse as a way of still getting the team he wants to coach?

[Commandant]

Does Roy and Damphousse have a good relationship? They both seem like passionate guys. Maybe Roy could see having open communication with Damphousse as a way of still getting the team he wants to coach?

I'm not sure what their relationship is like. I do know that there weren't any famous blow-ups between the two of them, like say Roy and Schneider for instance.

[JMMR]

I would take Roy as either Coach or GM to be honest. I really think his passion could light a fire in a lot of players bellys.

The only question is could professionals work with him.

Sure kids love him, but it is a lot easier to have 16-20 year olds become enamored with you than 18-40 year old millionaires.

I am not saying it is impossible but that is the thing that scares me.

[Habsy]

I would take Roy as either Coach or GM to be honest. I really think his passion could light a fire in a lot of players bellys.

The only question is could professionals work with him.

Sure kids love him, but it is a lot easier to have 16-20 year olds become enamored with you than 18-40 year old millionaires.

I am not saying it is impossible but that is the thing that scares me.

I agree with you, I want him back in the organization. I suspect he's a wealthy man himself, and can handle today's player better than, for example Mario Tremblay. Who back in the day couldn't.

[illWill]

It almost feels inevitable that Roy will be back with the Habs at some point, in some capacity. From the jersey retirement ceremony it is clear that both sides have kissed and made up, to Roy himself saying he would listen if the Habs called. But only until he comes back, will the curse of Saint Patrick be lifted from this franchise, and then the Stanley Cups will follow. Montreal needs Roy and Roy needs Montreal, it's just a matter of time.

[JMMR]

It almost feels inevitable that Roy will be back with the Habs at some point, in some capacity. From the jersey retirement ceremony it is clear that both sides have kissed and made up, to Roy himself saying he would listen if the Habs called. But only until he comes back, will the curse of Saint Patrick be lifted from this franchise, and then the Stanley Cups will follow. Montreal needs Roy and Roy needs Montreal, it's just a matter of time.

You sir are a prophet.