saskhab Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I'm not saying BOb would do this. I wouldn't. The reason I mentioned Pleks is that the rumoured asking price is a centre to play with Nash or a top 2/3 D. I think Howson is asking too much for the pick IMO. Yeah, I could understand asking for a top centre straight up for that pick, but I wouldn't bite. I think they'd be satisfied with a decent roster player and the lower first rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, Olli Jokinen is being shopped after demanding a trade. The asking price is two young roster players + a first rounder. Plekanec, Lapierre and 25th, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thib46 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, Olli Jokinen is being shopped after demanding a trade. The asking price is two young roster players + a first rounder. Plekanec, Lapierre and 25th, anyone? Too Much, not giving up on Plekanec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecurb Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, Olli Jokinen is being shopped after demanding a trade. The asking price is two young roster players + a first rounder. Plekanec, Lapierre and 25th, anyone? That idea is bordering on brilliant. We trade a 2nd and 3rd line player and a draft pick for a 1st line player. Where do I sign.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Too Much, not giving up on Plekanec. Not giving up on him, upgrading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, Olli Jokinen is being shopped after demanding a trade. The asking price is two young roster players + a first rounder. Plekanec, Lapierre and 25th, anyone? As much as I like Pleks and Laps, Olli would certainly fit exactly what we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I like Plex. I like Lapierre. I love Jokinen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I would be sad to see Plex go, but that's an intriguing deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) There's a slew of rumours out there, from credible sources, according to Team 1040 in Vancouver. Jokinen is supposed to be on the bloc; so is Patrick Marleau, as well as Jonathan Cheechoo (dare I revive my Marleau-for-Kovalev hobby horse again? ). Eric Cole or Jason Williams are apparently also potentially on the market. Jeff Carter. Lots of significant names floating around. I don't know if any of them will come our way, but it's fun to speculate. Then there's the comparatively new development of teams trading assets in order to get the "rights" to impending UFAs. Prospal bagged a 7th and 9th pick from Tampa Bay. Frankly, I don't like the trend - it strikes me as yet another way that idiotic GMs can shoot themselves in the foot (e.g., what will Hossa command - a 1st rounder just to have first right of negotiation?) Sheesh, now teams are giving up picks just to TALK to a guy. If there's a way to undermine themselves, NHL GMs will find it. I would still prefer to deal a Kovalev than young assets, which is why Marleau remains my preferred scenario. San Jose will want to win *NOW* so they might be interested in our increasingly elderly AK 27. All the same, Jokinen is still very young and still a jaw-dropping all-around player. I think if you have a chance to get him, you do, as long as you're not gutting your future. Edited June 19, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecurb Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 There's a slew of rumours out there, from credible sources, according to Team 1040 in Vancouver. Jokinen is supposed to be on the bloc; so is Patrick Marleau, as well as Jonathan Cheechoo (dare I revive my Marleau-for-Kovalev hobby horse again? ). Eric Cole or Jason Williams are apparently also potentially on the market. Jeff Carter. Lots of significant names floating around. I don't know if any of them will come our way, but it's fun to speculate. Then there's the comparatively new development of teams trading assets in order to get the "rights" to impending UFAs. Prospal bagged a 7th and 9th pick from Tampa Bay. Frankly, I don't like the trend - it strikes me as yet another way that idiotic GMs can shoot themselves in the foot (e.g., what will Hossa command - a 1st rounder just to have first right of negotiation?) Sheesh, now teams are giving up picks just to TALK to a guy. If there's a way to undermine themselves, NHL GMs will find it. I would still prefer to deal a Kovalev than young assets, which is why Marleau remains my preferred scenario. San Jose will want to win *NOW* so they might be interested in our increasingly elderly AK 27. All the same, Jokinen is still very young and still a jaw-dropping all-around player. I think if you have a chance to get him, you do, as long as you're not gutting your future. Know what, everytime I hear Marleau's name I get defensive. Its not that I don't think he's a good player. But that SJ team at least on paper should win the West every year. They have size and talent, yet those big boys play like wimps !!! If we're going to trade for a big C, lets not get a wimp. I want a mean SOB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Why do every trade rumor with no source is including Plekanec lately ?? Last season it was Higgins name mentionned everywhere, now it's Plek. I understand he has value, but give him the same wingers and this line will still be one of the best in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) Know what, everytime I hear Marleau's name I get defensive. Its not that I don't think he's a good player. But that SJ team at least on paper should win the West every year. They have size and talent, yet those big boys play like wimps !!! If we're going to trade for a big C, lets not get a wimp. I want a mean SOB. Well, first of all, you could make the same argument about Thornton. A "playoff bust." And yet, tell me you wouldn't want him on your team. Secondly, yes, a guy like Jokinen is a better player than Marleau and we'd be better off with him. Players like Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Ovechkin, Lecavalier and Zetterberg are also significantly better than Marleau. But we're dealing with the real world here. Star C who are "mean SOBs" are very rare and exceedingly costly. A player like Marleau would solve a significant problem for us and - most importantly in my opinion - could plausibly be had in return for someone like Kovalev, an older player on the back nine of his career whose value is at its peak. If you keep holding out for Sidney Crosby, well, you can either die waiting, or else look at gutting the franchise for the sake of that acquisition. The point is to acquire a major piece of the puzzle without comprehensively savaging your young core. So it's perhaps more plausible to look at the 'second tier' of players. Like Marleau. Anyway, I don't know how I keep getting into this argument; it's not like I think Marleau is The Saviour. But as I say, that's the *kind* of deal to which I'd be most amenable: one that maintains the young core, while upgrading at a comparatively weak position (in this case, centre), and addressing the unnerving problem that our two key offensive players are both inconsistent old geezers (Koivu/Kovalev) who are far more likely to decline than improve. Edited June 19, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well, first of all, you could make the same argument about Thornton. A "playoff bust." And yet, tell me you wouldn't want him on your team. Secondly, yes, a guy like Jokinen is a better player than Marleau and we'd be better off with him. Players like Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Ovechkin, Lecavalier and Zetterberg are also significantly better than Marleau. But we're dealing with the real world here. Star C who are "mean SOBs" are very rare and exceedingly costly. A player like Marleau would solve a significant problem for us and - most importantly in my opinion - could plausibly be had in return for someone like Kovalev, an older player on the back nine of his career whose value is at its peak. If you keep holding out for Sidney Crosby, well, you can either die waiting, or else look at gutting the franchise for the sake of that acquisition. The point is to acquire a major piece of the puzzle without comprehensively savaging your young core. So it's perhaps more plausible to look at the 'second tier' of players. Like Marleau. Anyway, I don't know how I keep getting into this argument; it's not like I think Marleau is The Saviour. But as I say, that's the *kind* of deal to which I'd be most amenable: one that maintains the young core, while upgrading at a comparatively weak position (in this case, centre), and addressing the unnerving problem that our two key offensive players are both inconsistent old geezers (Koivu/Kovalev) who are far more likely to decline than improve. Now you've done it! You have questioned the golden boys. You are in trouble now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecurb Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well, first of all, you could make the same argument about Thornton. A "playoff bust." And yet, tell me you wouldn't want him on your team. Secondly, yes, a guy like Jokinen is a better player than Marleau and we'd be better off with him. Players like Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Ovechkin, Lecavalier and Zetterberg are also significantly better than Marleau. But we're dealing with the real world here. Star C who are "mean SOBs" are very rare and exceedingly costly. A player like Marleau would solve a significant problem for us and - most importantly in my opinion - could plausibly be had in return for someone like Kovalev, an older player on the back nine of his career whose value is at its peak. If you keep holding out for Sidney Crosby, well, you can either die waiting, or else look at gutting the franchise for the sake of that acquisition. The point is to acquire a major piece of the puzzle without comprehensively savaging your young core. So it's perhaps more plausible to look at the 'second tier' of players. Like Marleau. I wouldn't want Thornton on our team for what it would cost to get him. He's great in the regular season but disappears in the playoffs when you have to fight for every inch. Anyway, I don't know how I keep getting into this argument; it's not like I think Marleau is The Saviour. But as I say, that's the *kind* of deal to which I'd be most amenable: one that maintains the young core, while upgrading at a comparatively weak position (in this case, centre), and addressing the unnerving problem that our two key offensive players are both inconsistent old geezers (Koivu/Kovalev) who are far more likely to decline than improve. I agree with most of what you are saying, its just I don't think Marleau is the solution. For whatever reason he got 48 points last year at a time he should be getting a point a game. I suppose were to believe that external problems lead to him regressing. I just think if that is true, that he would not excel in Montreal given all the external pressures playing in this city. Anyway I enjoy your posts and don't want to put you in a position of defending Marleau. I just don't think he solves anything. But hey, I've been wrong before and could be again. Those old inconsistent geezers kinda showed up come playoff time, didn't they. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Now you've done it! You have questioned the golden boys. You are in trouble now The irony is that I love both of those players. Even when he's stinking out the joint, Kovalev is entertaining - I always liked him. And Koivu is blood-and-guts all the way. But that both are inconsistent in terms of performance should go without saying. And I remain adamant that it's a major weakness to plan to continue relying on these guys into the medium term, given the stages they're at in their careers. Koivu, I predict, will disintegrate fairly rapidly, once his game does start to decline (you can argue that the process of decline has already begun). Kovalev may be able to stretch out his career, but I hear the Oxford English Dictionary is considering using him as their primary entry under "Inconsistent." We should be thinking in terms of their future replacements, not resting content that we're now suddenly A Good Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 The irony is that I love both of those players. Even when he's stinking out the joint, Kovalev is entertaining - I always liked him. And Koivu is blood-and-guts all the way. But that both are inconsistent in terms of performance should go without saying. And I remain adamant that it's a major weakness to plan to continue relying on these guys into the medium term, given the stages they're at in their careers. Koivu, I predict, will disintegrate fairly rapidly, once his game does start to decline (you can argue that the process of decline has already begun). Kovalev may be able to stretch out his career, but I hear the Oxford English Dictionary is considering using him as their primary entry under "Inconsistent." We should be thinking in terms of their future replacements, not resting content that we're now suddenly A Good Team. I agree. Detroit let Fedorov walk after an 83 point season before the lockout and the cap were implemented because they saw his decline before everybody else did. I am sure Detroit fans thought you cannot win by letting one of your core guys walk, but instead of being burdened by his huge salary into this season they were able to implement younger better pieces into his role. Detroit makes tough decisions every season, they place faith in their scouting staff to not only draft impact players, but they trust them to evaluate their own talent as well as unearth reclamation projects like Cleary. The majority view things through tunnel vision, using a homer based mentality. Those who would chastise Marleau's character for putting up 45 points this season will rejoice in Kovalev showing character in responding from a brutal season last year to put up 84 points this season. They don't want Marleau now, but would have jumped at the opportunity just one season ago to add a 28 year old coming off a 78 and 86 point season for the 34 year old Kovalev who looked shot. This is the whole point. Marleau has damaged his trade value in the last 12 months and Kovalev's stock has risen to a 2nd Team All-Star and comeback of the year level asset. It has made a trade that was a pipedream last June and made it a realistic starting point. 28 year old 220 lb 6'2" centers do not grow on trees, and if you can trade a declining asset to acquire one entering his prime it is something you should do. But we both have been down this road before, and if those who disagree with me can't fathom my reasoning, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Detroit tried hard to re-sign Fedorov, Sergei was just tired of being in Yzerman's shadow and bolted. The Red Wings were prepared to give him that contract that Murray gave him in Anaheim. Fedorov essentially thought he could be a bigger star outside of Detroit... he was wrong. If he had stayed in Detroit, I doubt we would've seen the decline in his game we saw in Anaheim and Columbus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecurb Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I agree. Detroit let Fedorov walk after an 83 point season before the lockout and the cap were implemented because they saw his decline before everybody else did. I am sure Detroit fans thought you cannot win by letting one of your core guys walk, but instead of being burdened by his huge salary into this season they were able to implement younger better pieces into his role. Detroit makes tough decisions every season, they place faith in their scouting staff to not only draft impact players, but they trust them to evaluate their own talent as well as unearth reclamation projects like Cleary. The majority view things through tunnel vision, using a homer based mentality. Those who would chastise Marleau's character for putting up 45 points this season will rejoice in Kovalev showing character in responding from a brutal season last year to put up 84 points this season. They don't want Marleau now, but would have jumped at the opportunity just one season ago to add a 28 year old coming off a 78 and 86 point season for the 34 year old Kovalev who looked shot. This is the whole point. Marleau has damaged his trade value in the last 12 months and Kovalev's stock has risen to a 2nd Team All-Star and comeback of the year level asset. It has made a trade that was a pipedream last June and made it a realistic starting point. 28 year old 220 lb 6'2" centers do not grow on trees, and if you can trade a declining asset to acquire one entering his prime it is something you should do. But we both have been down this road before, and if those who disagree with me can't fathom my reasoning, so be it. I wouldn't mind adding a few more declining assets if they got us 84 points. I kinda like the idea that declining asset is just signed for one more year at reasonable money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 something will happen sooner or later. our turn will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 As well as I love the status quo in my fav hockey team, i miss a big move ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) Plekanec lately ??This all started when I made a point about a rumour involving Gainey going after the 6th or 19th pick from Columbus. According to the rumour (Columbus Dispatch), Howsen wants a 1st line centre or a "1B" 2nd line centre to play with Nash for the 6th pick. I used Pleks of an example of what Howsen would probably seek, or set as a bar. I personally believe that if Gainey is after a pick from Columbus, they are after the 19th witch wouldn't cost Pleks, not the 6th which likely would. Beyond that to my knowledge there's been no Plekanec trade rumours at all. PS. According to Ek - we are after Atlanta's 3rd Edited June 19, 2008 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 There seems to be more and more rumblings everyday about Sundin heading to Montreal. A very reliable Andy Strickland mentioned it today as well as the Globe & Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) This all started when I made a point about a rumour involving Gainey going after the 6th or 19th pick from Columbus. According to the rumour (Columbus Dispatch), Howsen wants a 1st line centre or a "1B" 2nd line centre to play with Nash for the 6th pick. I used Pleks of an example of what Howsen would probably seek, or set as a bar. I personally believe that if Gainey is after a pick from Columbus, they are after the 19th witch wouldn't cost Pleks, not the 6th which likely would. Beyond that to my knowledge there's been no Plekanec trade rumours at all. PS. According to Ek - we are after Atlanta's 3rd I would definitely try to throw Fisher + 25th + ___ for a chance to get Bogosian, Doughty or Filatov... wouldn't ya ? Edited June 19, 2008 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Gainey Press Conference Audio Link From Habsinsideout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Very nice.... Some key points. "We are here (in Ottawa) to see if we can acquire a player, through trade, that we like" - Gainey When asked about Grabovsky's future with the Habs "It's hard, a mix really... yes and no" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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