saskhab Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Is Seguin a center? Yep. Seguin's the centre, Hall the winger, Fowler the D. Some have suggested that a team that while Hall is the consesus #1, a team with a positional need for a centre might feel comfortable passing on Hall for Seguin. I don't know if there's that same feeling about Fowler, though (taking him ahead of Hall or Seguin because they need a D). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I can't beleive Goaltending is such a hot topic and people get so worked up about it. That is problem 999 out of 1000. You mean problem # 1999 out of 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Yea, sorry. I bet Edmonton picks Fowler if they unload Vishnevski and Souray. Habs need to get into the top 3 real bad. They could use any of those 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Idea being kicked around by another fan on a different board.... if Plex can't be re-signed, does anyone think a deal with Chicago could be worked out where we send them Plexo and we get Sharp back? Sharp is signed long term at $3.9m, plays both C and wing (shoots right). Chicago has to shed players from next year's payroll, but get a guy to help this year's team that is actually playing better than Sharp in Plekanec. We get a long term solution for our top two lines that comes a little cheaper than Plekanec (we think Plexo will get more than $4m). He's also a superb PKer much like Plekanec. Worth a thought. There would probably be other pieces involved, but that's the starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 It's hard to say, i honestly have no idea what a JM team is. I have no idea wheat he and Gainey like, or want. Clearly the needs are 7 new 3rd and 4th liners, Moen excluded. Pyatt, White, Pacioretty and some one stated Russel is that kind of guy. They need size and toughness as well in those spots. A 2nd line center to replace Pleks. Sharp is a possibility i guess, he is a smaller player. I say tank and draft Seguin. They need IMO at least 2 new D who can skate and move the puck. Subban is on the way, If they don't land Seguin, Fowler is a RD and a great puck mover. Pick a goalie, Trade and upgrade posiotions. See how easy that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Heh... Sergei and Lapierre will have to do for 2 of the bottom six spots (unless Sergei is traded, which is a possibility), but they definitely need a 3rd centre with some size and jam (someone that brings something different to the table). I'd put Lapierre on the wing and tell him to finish his checks, he SHOULD be more effective in that role. Pyatt can be the 4th centre. White should find a spot. Pacioretty is a toss up for a spot next year, IMO. If he can't be better than Moen, then keep him in the AHL to start the year. Russell is probably still a year away (and I think Maxwell is as well). Don't know if Stewart can ever make it back, he reminds me of a Garth Murray type bubble guy. D'Agostini is a spare part now and I can't see any role for him. Sergei is better at the things that we need than he is. If one got a Seguin he could slide into either the #2 or #3 hole at C and we have some good options with either Plekanec or a Sharp type replacing him. Our bottom six is definitely a mess. Carle will make the team out of camp next year, provided he's healthy. They should open up a spot by trading one of the current D, preferably Hamrlik for salary purposes (though we'd likely have to take a guy back in exchange). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I think if SK isn't traded he is going to the KHL. Lapierre is currently just wasting away doing nothing. He can be added to a trade. To me he just doesn't show the heart and courage needed to do his job. So if he isn't going to play phyisical and check, see you later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Idea being kicked around by another fan on a different board.... if Plex can't be re-signed, does anyone think a deal with Chicago could be worked out where we send them Plexo and we get Sharp back? Sharp is signed long term at $3.9m, plays both C and wing (shoots right). Chicago has to shed players from next year's payroll, but get a guy to help this year's team that is actually playing better than Sharp in Plekanec. We get a long term solution for our top two lines that comes a little cheaper than Plekanec (we think Plexo will get more than $4m). He's also a superb PKer much like Plekanec. Worth a thought. There would probably be other pieces involved, but that's the starting point. that would be a great trade for both teams..i think it works for both teams...NOW IF ONLY BOB COULD PULL IT OFF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Lets say there isn't a trade for another centre coming back for Plekky, aren't you all worried with Gomez as our #1 centre and umm...Maxwell as number 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Not really. Gomez Gionta Pouliot have been excellent. You still have Cammi and AK46 on the wings. Seguin, Trotter played center in college, UFA. I would rather have an extra 1st rounder for Pleks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Lets say there isn't a trade for another centre coming back for Plekky, aren't you all worried with Gomez as our #1 centre and umm...Maxwell as number 2? Is every UFA centre going to turn down our offers, and no supplementary trade going to occur to fill the gap? The question is not whether Maxwell will be our #2 centre (he won't be), but whether or not we'll find a replacement currently not playing in Montreal or Hamilton for Plekanec that is satisfactory. At what point does dealing Plekanec become something the team can stomach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Is every UFA centre going to turn down our offers, and no supplementary trade going to occur to fill the gap? The question is not whether Maxwell will be our #2 centre (he won't be), but whether or not we'll find a replacement currently not playing in Montreal or Hamilton for Plekanec that is satisfactory. At what point does dealing Plekanec become something the team can stomach? My understanding in not resigning Plek is the lack of money, if there's no money for Plek, is there going to be money for a top 2 center? It's a question of the devil you know or the devil you don't. I'd rather slightly overpay for Plek, than hope to find someone else to fill in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 My understanding in not resigning Plek is the lack of money, if there's no money for Plek, is there going to be money for a top 2 center? It's a question of the devil you know or the devil you don't. I'd rather slightly overpay for Plek, than hope to find someone else to fill in. Yeah, I was kind of getting at that. Of course, Saku is a UFA, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I am thinking postivie. It will be Seguin. Edmonton and the habs will batlte it out for last. No, I am not a hater, just a realist. Have you seen the roster for tonights' game? With no help on the way i don't see 10 more wins. Pleks honestly makes me nervous, he seems like he is working hard for the contract then all of a sudden back to the little girl we have seen for years. No way he resigns as a UFA, someone will offer him more money and he'll leave for nothing. Not an option. BG has done that with 2-3 real good players at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Yeah, I was kind of getting at that. Of course, Saku is a UFA, too. Ya know, as a patchwork solution, that wouldn't be bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Wamsley, you're the one that needs to wake up. We are talking about Gainey wanting to build the Habs around Price the way Lamoriello built NJ around Brodeur. Of course we will compare Price with Brodeur at any age. Why should we limit ourselves to comparing Price to Brodeur at the same age? Out of fairness for Price? Hello?! We're not trying to find the best way to spare Price's feelings here, we're trying to dissect a situation to figure out weither element A (Price) can do the same thing element B (Brodeur) did in his career. We got a very well documented, proven track record for Brodeur, the real smart, intellectually relevant thing to do here is to compare A with what B was and became later because its' that very later part you are trying to copy! Look, you can invent any stats you want and twist them any way you to try to put Price in a positive light. You can use any incoherent line of argument like "Dont compare the 22 yrs old Price with the 31 yrs old Brodeur; but do compare the 60 games two-times-Habs-season-saving-AHL-dominating Halak with the 30 games unproven 1 game a month Racicot's situation vs to the 22 yrs old unproven Price and the 8 seasons Cup Ring-bearer Roy" and other assorted sophism to make it look as if Halak is a flash in the pan not worth an afterthought -- further, indirect support in favor of Price. I wont be having another damn debate about Price vs Halak, especially if it leads down the road of being told that, really, "On the 3rd Wednesday of the month between the hours of 8:34pm and 9:12pm, when the Moon is in its last quarter, vs opponents playing above .551 who have red in their jersey colors; Price's stats crushes Halak's" There's qualitative things that stats can't show. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You've seen goalies come and go for as many years as I've did Wamsley; even despite your Price bias you have to be smart enough to see that Price doesnt have the attitude and mental make-up to be a reliable, consistent franchise goalie as expected. He's been a mental mess since the All-Star Game of 2009. Dont bitch that fans' expectations are the problem here. This is the Habs' top brass expectations we've been talking about all along. We're talking about the Habs' expectations that they can build the franchise on Price's shoulders the same way NJ has on Brodeur's shoulders. What is Brodeur's distinctive, intangible quality if not incredible mental strength? And you'd want us to not question Price's own mental strength? That's what the whole freaking point of the discussion is about!!! But the point is that when Brodeur was 22, Brodeur wasn't 'Brodeur' as we know him. All anyone had to go on then was potential. By extension, that Price isn't Brodeur NOW is irrelevant to the question of whether he can or will be that good. Wamsley's overall argument, as I see it, is simply that the path of developing young players never does go smooth and that it is wildly premature to give up on Price's potential because he hasn't yet delivered. And he's also suggesting that when it comes to developing goalies - I'd amend that to ANY young players - Habs fans are just ridiculously short-sighted. (I'll include myself in that group). I think this is completely correct. The guy on the farm, or the 'other' goalie, is always better in fans' minds than the guys we actually have. I've heard it all, my friend: Roy is inferior to Racicot; Garon is better than Theodore; Ribeiro is 'addition by subtraction;' John LeClair is a bust; Komisarek will never be an NHL defenceman; Markov will never play defence; Latendresse has no potential. Now you may be right that Price doesn't have the mental make-up to be an elite starter. But first, we don't know what goes on in Price's head. Proclaiming upon his inner soul is presumptuous at best. And second, like any young player he may be capable of learning and adapting and thus *improving* on the mental facet of the game. In short, the present is not the future. Even if his head isn't there NOW it may get there. Given Price's track record of success and the universal view of scouts that he has elite potential, surely the smart play is to continue patently trying to develop him rather than give up on him at 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I could care less about the debate, but while you're accusing Wamsley of manipulating facts, you're stating your opinions as fact as well. He does that constantly. To act like you know what a persons mental makeup is, from your TV or keyboard, is painful to read. At least with stats, you can consider a point of view. Even though most stats should be thrown into the St. Lawrence river, especially for goalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Wamsley, you're the one that needs to wake up. We are talking about Gainey wanting to build the Habs around Price the way Lamoriello built NJ around Brodeur. Of course we will compare Price with Brodeur at any age. Why should we limit ourselves to comparing Price to Brodeur at the same age? Out of fairness for Price? Hello?! We're not trying to find the best way to spare Price's feelings here, we're trying to dissect a situation to figure out weither element A (Price) can do the same thing element B (Brodeur) did in his career. We got a very well documented, proven track record for Brodeur, the real smart, intellectually relevant thing to do here is to compare A with what B was and became later because its' that very later part you are trying to copy! Look, you can invent any stats you want and twist them any way you to try to put Price in a positive light. You can use any incoherent line of argument like "Dont compare the 22 yrs old Price with the 31 yrs old Brodeur; but do compare the 60 games two-times-Habs-season-saving-AHL-dominating Halak with the 30 games unproven 1 game a month Racicot's situation vs to the 22 yrs old unproven Price and the 8 seasons Cup Ring-bearer Roy" and other assorted sophism to make it look as if Halak is a flash in the pan not worth an afterthought -- further, indirect support in favor of Price. I stopped reading your post after this paragraph because it doesn't make any sense. So I guess we can start comparing Sidney Crosby to Wayne Gretzky since age doesn't matter? You sound like my Dad comparing the Canadiens of the 60's to the Canadiens of the 2000's - different game, different players, different style. Wamsley's original post makes perfect sense. Go read it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ek's Notes Ek's Notes for February 2, 2010. On Montreal.... Sources tell me the Canadiens/Oilers situation is coming to a head..."There are some key players involved..Edmonton Loves this deal. Montreal is waiting. We are hearing the Canadiens also received the best offer yet for one of their goalies, but in doing this deal the Habs would be setting themselves up for an issue with their backup. However, down the line they would be far, far better off were they to make this deal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) Ek's Notes Ek's Notes for February 2, 2010. On Montreal.... Sources tell me the Canadiens/Oilers situation is coming to a head..."There are some key players involved..Edmonton Loves this deal. Montreal is waiting. We are hearing the Canadiens also received the best offer yet for one of their goalies, but in doing this deal the Habs would be setting themselves up for an issue with their backup. However, down the line they would be far, far better off were they to make this deal." I just read this as well. I'm thinking that Edmonton has their sights set on Price & Plekanec. I speculate the Habs are definitely asking for Hemsky and more in return. Perhaps Cogliano and Brule & a draft pick/prospect as well. Moneywise it works since you can send D'Agostini back down and release Metropolit. This trade is basically for next year (since Hemsky's hurt). That's why Montreal's waiting, to see how they do in the next 3-4 games. Edited February 3, 2010 by JGC21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I just read this as well. I'm thinking that Edmonton has their sights set on Price & Plekanec. I speculate the Habs are definitely asking for Hemsky and more in return. Perhaps Cogliano and Brule & a draft pick/prospect as well. Moneywise it works since you can send D'Agostini back down and release Metropolit. This trade is basically for next year (since Hemsky's hurt). That's why Montreal's waiting, to see how they do in the next 3-4 games. DarrenDreger Oilers pushing trade hard. Moreau and others, but deals unlikely unless Edmtn sweetens the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC21 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Moreau would bring some toughness up front, especially on a line with Cammalleri and A. Kostitsyn. If we're going to lose Plekanec (via trade or free agency), I'd like to see some grit added to Montreal's top two lines & some scoring punch on the third. Here's what I'm thinking: Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta Moreau-Cammalleri-A. Kostitsyn S. Kostitsyn-Cogliano-Moen White-Pyatt-Lapierre This would also give us some breathing room - $3M+ (minus all the UFA's we don't sign; Metropolit, Mara, Bergeron). I see Carle joining the team in 2010-11, while players like Pacioretty, Maxwell, Weber & Subban will challenge to make the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Moreau would bring some toughness up front, especially on a line with Cammalleri and A. Kostitsyn. If we're going to lose Plekanec (via trade or free agency), I'd like to see some grit added to Montreal's top two lines & some scoring punch on the third. Here's what I'm thinking: Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta Moreau-Cammalleri-A. Kostitsyn S. Kostitsyn-Cogliano-Moen White-Pyatt-Lapierre This would also give us some breathing room - $3M+ (minus all the UFA's we don't sign; Metropolit, Mara, Bergeron). I see Carle joining the team in 2010-11, while players like Pacioretty, Maxwell, Weber & Subban will challenge to make the team. who are we trading to edm?????????/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 who are we trading to edm?????????/ LOL, I was thinking the same thing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 i think we would what Patrick O'Sullivan..not sure if he played with Cammalleri in La Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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