Permanent Rumour Thread

[hab29RETIRED]

Did your mother not love you enough? I've never seen anyone so negative in my life! Surely, SURELY you can find one good, positive thing to say about Gainey and the Habs? Might make you feel better. Just one. I dare you!

Hi picked up Cammy and Pouliot.

And I'm sorry if i'm not like some Habs fans who now have the mentality that leafs fans have had over the past 40 years. Blindly cheer their team and mgmt on and naively hope that this this is there year.

Montreal has been a franchise of excellance, a franchise led by Selke, Blake, Irwin, Pollack, Bowman. Brilliant coaches and GM's who were the class of the league. Now we are reduced by the bumbling of former habs great players like Trembley, Houle, Gainey who have been spinning their wheels for the past 15 years.

[Habsy]

I referenced him to make a point that other GM's STEAL top players from other teams, while Gainey picks up guys off the trash heap that no one will touch - Schneider, MAB, Gomez. I'm sorry that you find that to hard to understand.

I've been a habs fan for 35 years and have never cheered for any other team and not about to start now. I'm just pissed that every year this team seems to get worse and worse and I can't see Gainey being able to lead this team back to respectibility, unlike you whose stupid motto is IN GAINEY WE TRUST - no matter how far we go down in the standings.

Like I said, I read all your contibutions. So don't take it personally!!!! I posted along time ago, if Bob screws up Plex and Halak, he'll step down this spring. I've never said In Gainey We Trust.

[ForumGhost]

Montreal has been a franchise of excellance, a franchise led by Selke, Blake, Irwin, Pollack, Bowman. Brilliant coaches and GM's who were the class of the league. Now we are reduced by the bumbling of former habs great players like Trembley, Houle, Gainey who have been spinning their wheels for the past 15 years.

There goes that sense of entitlement again all the oldies seem to have. Reminds me of the baby boomers... Wake up, this is the new NHL, not a fairy tale.

[hab29RETIRED]

Signing MAB for peanuts to salvage even a chance at playoffs. I think Moens been a good pick up. Metro for the cost vs. production has been great as well.

Moen and metro were good pickups - but they are not game changers - although Moen in particular is a guy f the habs could clone, they could use 2 or 3 more of him to fill out the god awful 3/4th lines.

Point is the big name salary guys the habs have are overpaid (Gomez, Gionta, Hamrlik) and are going to prevent us from improving for the next 4 years (Hamrlik comes off next year), but do you honestly think we can improve under the following situation:

- $18.5M tied up in Gionta, Cammy and Gomez - when Cammy is the only guy I would want tied up that long for those numbers.

- Pleks is a UFA - probably can't sign him, but who the hell do we replace him with???

- Markov and AK46 to be UFA's in summer of 2011.

- Price/Halak whoever stays will be looking for a raise this summer, Halak is likely gone, and i can' t see price signing for more then a year given his numbers this year, which means in 2011 he will be an RFA looking for more money as well.

Other signings like Gill, Mara, Spacek (hate the term for someone over 35), on their own would have been fine, and can be viewed as stop gap measures to tide us over until Subban, Weber, or Emelin (if he finally comes over), show they belong. But the big contracts to Gomez and Gionta (who i would be love if there cap hits were under $4M) are going to cripple us and our ability to make the types of moves we need to make for the next 4 years.

[KEEP26]

i think bruke pull off some good moves for next year...but you cant blame bob because bruke is doing his job..their 28 other gms in the nhl other then bruke and bob...i think the flames made a bad move...i think they could of got more...the ducks move is not bad..it works for both teams...i cant dream how bruke got the ducks to take blake..but the ducks need to drop some cap and it works for them because they got to sign bobby ryan..

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hi picked up Cammy and Pouliot.

And I'm sorry if i'm not like some Habs fans who now have the mentality that leafs fans have had over the past 40 years. Blindly cheer their team and mgmt on and naively hope that this this is there year.

Montreal has been a franchise of excellance, a franchise led by Selke, Blake, Irwin, Pollack, Bowman. Brilliant coaches and GM's who were the class of the league. Now we are reduced by the bumbling of former habs great players like Trembley, Houle, Gainey who have been spinning their wheels for the past 15 years.

Whatever we think of Gainey, I question the wisdom of using Burke's superior GMing as proof of Gainey's incompetence. At least Gainey doesn't deal away first overall picks and utterly decimate the franchise of young talent (as Burke did in Vancouver). I've also seen this movie before - some rival team makes Big Moves and everybody panics: OH MY GOD THEY'RE GONNA BE BETTER THAN US. In fact, a lot of people said this about Burke's summer moves too. Let's wait and see how things go down before freaking out, shall we?

Honestly, Habs29, I also think that - in the bigger picture - comparing contemporary Habs teams to the teams from the dynasty era is thoroughly unhelpful. Those teams were assembled under completely different conditions and set standards than no current organization can hope to equal. That comparison leads to a lot of unnecessary resentment and bitterness. I recall the 1980s and early 1990s all too well: a great many Habs fans grumbled their way through that era too, constantly demanding Serge Savard's firing, bitching that this team wasn't 'really' a good team, etc. - all because they weren't up to historical standards. It was a ridiculous criticism then and it's a dubious criticism now. If you attack Gainey, it should be because he has failed to build a New Jersey Devils or a Detroit Red Wings, not because he's failed to equal the achievements of Frank Selke Jr.

[hab29RETIRED]

There goes that sense of entitlement again all the oldies seem to have. Reminds me of the baby boomers... Wake up, this is the new NHL, not a fairy tale.

What's wrong with expecting ownership hire competent GM's and coaches rather then appease the language police????

Other teams like the Devils and Red Wings have CONSISTENTLY been good to Excellent, without the benefit of having high draft picks or tanking to get high draft picks.

The habs ownerships is just as stupid as the NYR, TBL, FLA, NYI in hiring idiots to run their teams. The only reason that the habs are even in sniff of a playoff position (let alone in 8th place), is that you have idiots like Sather who still have jobs, and you have guys like Wang who kept an idiot like Milbury in charge of his team for almost a decade.

[hab29RETIRED]

Whatever we think of Gainey, I question the wisdom of using Burke's superior GMing as proof of Gainey's incompetence. At least Gainey doesn't deal away first overall picks and utterly decimate the franchise of young talent (as Burke did in Vancouver). I've also seen this movie before - some rival team makes Big Moves and everybody panics: OH MY GOD THEY'RE GONNA BE BETTER THAN US. In fact, a lot of people said this about Burke's summer moves too. Let's wait and see how things go down before freaking out, shall we?

Honestly, Habs29, I also think that - in the bigger picture - comparing contemporary Habs teams to the teams from the dynasty era is thoroughly unhelpful. Those teams were assembled under completely different conditions and set standards than no current organization can hope to equal. That comparison leads to a lot of unnecessary resentment and bitterness. I recall the 1980s and early 1990s all too well: a great many Habs fans grumbled their way through that era too, constantly demanding Serge Savard's firing, bitching that this team wasn't 'really' a good team, etc. - all because they weren't up to historical standards. It was a ridiculous criticism then and it's a dubious criticism now. If you attack Gainey, it should be because he has failed to build a New Jersey Devils or a Detroit Red Wings, not because he's failed to equal the achievements of Frank Selke Jr.

The Red Wings and the Devils are EXACTLY the teams that we should be emulating. Teams that don't tank it to succeed. Teams that consistently shrewdly draft mid to late round gems, hire excellent coaches who they don't have to fire every year or two, bcoz it was obvious they hired the wrong guy.

Back in june/July I had posted how bad i thought the Gomez trade and to a lesser extent the Gionta signings were and how much I HATED the Martin signing. At that time, everyone here was raving about the great system Martin was bringing. Martin was FORCED upstairs in Florida, isolated his two best players (Bouwmeester and horten), and the team suddenly improved as soon as he was no longer the coach. He is a coach who the game has passed by. How many years now have we been complaining about this team having no identity???? The direction or lack of a direction that Gainey has us on, we are going to be complaining about the same shit in another 4 years.

We have a GM who CONSISTENTLY overpays his players, has a payroll up against the cap, yet is a middle to bottom feeder in the standings. How many years has it been that we have to scrape into the playoffs, or miss the playoffs, yet pick up guys in the draft that never become a top 3 forward?????

I don't understand the US College drafting strategy, since college players can at the end of two years refuse to sign and become UFA's (i.e. Blake Wheeler), and unless they are top tier talent like paul Kariya, they are generally 4-5 years away from being guys that can have any impact.

the habs have drafted, Hainsey, Komi, Fishcer, Mcdonough, Higgins and now Leblanc. You would think they would learn????

Yet it doesn't matter in what facet you want to examine, Drafting, Coaching, signings, the habs keep making the same damn mistakes again and again and again and NEVER seem to learn from their mistakes.

As far as Burke goes, he made an icredibly stupid trade when he picked up Kessel. But today he hit a grand slam home run. To me this is the Leeman for Gilmour trade. This is a trade that will probably haunt the flames the way the Gilmour trade did and in another two years put the Leafs back towards respectibility and into a potential contender, the same way the Gilmour trade did. The Million dollar question is Giguere. Not sure how many years he has left at $6M+ but I'm hoping he will really suck. In any event, Burke still managed to unload Blake's salary and Toskala was gone anyways at the end of this year. So from an Anahahiem prespective they also won, since they needed to dump Giggy's salary.

Edited January 31, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

What's wrong with expecting ownership hire competent GM's and coaches rather then appease the language police????

Other teams like the Devils and Red Wings have CONSISTENTLY been good to Excellent, without the benefit of having high draft picks or tanking to get high draft picks.

The habs ownerships is just as stupid as the NYR, TBL, FLA, NYI in hiring idiots to run their teams. The only reason that the habs are even in sniff of a playoff position (let alone in 8th place), is that you have idiots like Sather who still have jobs, and you have guys like Wang who kept an idiot like Milbury in charge of his team for almost a decade.

Well, NJ and Detroit are fair comparisons at least.

You know, I don't think Gainey is an idiot. His biggest errors were catastrophic decisions in hiring coaches early in his tenure. But even those moves looked good at the time. Honest to Pete, I think part of the problem is that Gainey has really and simply been unlucky as GM. Highly-touted prospects turned out to be lukewarm mediocrities (Higgins, Komisarek last year, Price so far, Plekanec last season). Injuries to absolutely key players decimated the team two years running (2009 and 2010). He built a team universally considered a contender that just plain imploded for reasons we have yet to understand (2009). Plausible, proven acquisitions became disasters (Samsonov, Bonk). Elite Russian prospects refused to play in the NHL (Emelin, Valetenko, perhaps Perezhogin). His captain apparently went to war with two promising young C (Ribeiro and Grabovski) forcing him to choose. While all franchises face bad luck over time, I honestly think we've had a disproportionate share in recent years. Which is not to say Bob hasn't made mistakes. But very little has broken his way, it seems to me. This is bound to change - c.f. Pouliot.

Edited January 31, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[hab29RETIRED]

Well, NJ and Detroit are fair comparisons at least.

You know, I don't think Gainey is an idiot. His biggest errors were catastrophic decisions in hiring coaches early in his tenure. But even those moves looked good at the time. Honest to Pete, I think part of the problem is that Gainey has really and simply been unlucky as GM. Highly-touted prospects turned out to be lukewarm mediocrities (Higgins, Komisarek last year, Price so far, Plekanec last season). Injuries to absolutely key players decimated the team two years running (2009 and 2010). He built a team universally considered a contender that just plain imploded for reasons we have yet to understand (2009). Plausible acquisitions became disasters (Samsonov, Bonk). Elite Russian prospects refused to play in the NHL (Emelin, Valetenko, perhaps Perezhogin). His captain apparently went to war with two promising young C (Ribeiro and Grabovski) forcing him to choose. While all franchises face bad luck over time, I honestly think we've had a disproportionate share in recent years. Which is not to say Bob hasn't made mistakes. But very little has broken his way, it seems to me. This is bound to change - c.f. Pouliot.

I don't think he is an idiot either - I LOVED Gainey the player and he is very reflective like my favourite habs Dryden when he speaks.

I just don't think he has the shrewdness you need as a GM. He is WAY to nice to his players - he treats them all to well when at times they need a good dressing down.

Yes, the habs have had lousy luck with prospects, but i think the issue is that they haven't LEARNED anything from their prospects. Every year, with the exception of Ak46, they have drafted a US college player in the first round (at least as far back as 6-7 years, I may be wrong about 1 other player, but I'm going strictly by memory).

I think the Ribeiro - like Lats - issue is on management. Ribeiro was a snot punk. A talented, snot punk, but a snot punk just the same. He was brought up before he was ready both in terms of NHL skill/size readiness, as well as maturity. As captain, Koivu dressed him down like he should have. I think if ribero's name was Ryan from Saskatchewan, it probably would have worked. But Ribeiro was a local kid, the darling of the French media and he was a guy who had a sense of entitlement and wasn't a guy who put forth a regular effort. So what do the habs do, they go through the same stupid process with Lats. At least with Lats they ended up being able to pick up Pouliot.

I think MaxPax would have had the same issue if he was a local kid. He was another guy, who needed time in the minors to develop further and should have been going back and forth between Hamilton and Montreal over the past two years. He should only have been here to get a taste of being in the NHL and then sent down and told what to improve on. IMO, the saving grace with him, was that he never became a media darling who was reading too much of his own press clippings. At least he was finally sent down and HOPEFULLY he will develop into a top 6 forward.

But you look at our prospects and who is there to pin our hopes on, other then Subban, MaxPax and that russian kid that the habs picked up this year???

Leblanc is probably 3-4 years away, IF he pans out, I haven't heard a peep about Fischer, and we pretty much have moved all of our other high pick prospects from this decade.

[hab29RETIRED]

What really has me irate about the leafs-flames deal is that despite all of the talk about our scoring, our REAL hole is on D. We don't have any nastiness or big shooter that can play on a REGULAR basis with markov, or any other Dman who can move the puck out of our zone.

Phaneuf would have been a great guy to pickup to improve our D and fill many of the hole we have on D.

Would a deal that included the likes of Moen, MAB, SK74, Spacek and Dags or Lapierre really been much better then the Leafs deal????? Hell, with the Flames issues at center, we may even have been able to unload the awful Gomez salarycap hit.

Edited January 31, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[dlbalr]

TFP is reporting the Habs have interest in Ray Whitney (CAR) and Paul Kariya (STL).

The Penguins aren't the only team trying to make a splash, though. It's believed the Boston Bruins, Detroit Red Wings, Montreal Canadiens and Los Angeles Kings are also interested in Whitney and Kariya.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/pit100131.html

[hab29RETIRED]

TFP is reporting the Habs have interest in Ray Whitney (CAR) and Paul Kariya (STL).

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/pit100131.html

Why would the habs want either guys. I'd love to have Whitney NEXT year, but does it make sense to try and pick up an upcoming UFA when you are up against the cap AND just lost your best player for probably the rest of the year??

Isn't Kariya making over $6M?? Unless he is on the last year of his contract AND Gomez is going the other way, I would't want anything to do with him. I think he is a guy who will be/should be hanging up the skates pretty soon.

[dlbalr]

Why would the habs want either guys. I'd love to have Whitney NEXT year, but does it make sense to try and pick up an upcoming UFA when you are up against the cap AND just lost your best player for probably the rest of the year??

Isn't Kariya making over $6M?? Unless he is on the last year of his contract AND Gomez is going the other way, I would't want anything to do with him. I think he is a guy who will be/should be hanging up the skates pretty soon.

Kariya is a UFA at the end of the season, making 6 million. They'd want either if they were convinced they could still be a playoff team without Cammalleri and would be content simply with making the postseason. No cap effect beyond the season, could be worse.

[hab29RETIRED]

Kariya is a UFA at the end of the season, making 6 million. They'd want either if they were convinced they could still be a playoff team without Cammalleri and would be content simply with making the postseason. No cap effect beyond the season, could be worse.

Well in that case, I wouldn't mind if Gainey were to trade Gomez for Kariya - not bcoz i want kariya, but only bcoz, it would get Gomez's cap hit off the books.

Again, I LIKE gomez as a player, but his salary is going to handcuff us from being able to icing a competitive team going forward. I'd rather move gomez and try and sign Pleks to a deal in the $4-4.5M range and then look for another center.

If Cammy is gone for the year, the habs may as well blow up this bunch NOW, rather then try and squeak into the playoffs. I'm not saying we should tank it, but lets face it, we NEED to move some salary and try and pick up prospects to make sure we are better next year.

IMO, the guys that they should be looking at moving are:

- Mara (UFA anyways)

- Spacek (doubt if they can move him, given his hit for the 3 years)

- Hamrlik (again tough to move)

- Gomez (again, $7.3M for his production just isn't worth it)

- MAB - cheap cap hit, but is a UFA and may get us a mid draft pick or an experienced solid 3rd/4th line guy - the guys this year just didn't cut it!!

- Metro- (UFA anyway) lets face it, should be easily repalceable next year, but could be a good affordable depth pickup for a team like WSH, PITT, SJS.

I'd even consider moving Gionta if we could pick up a younger and bigger prospect or player with more upside.

Unlike most people, I wouldnt want to move one of our goalies, unless its a deal that knocks our socks off. I don't think we would get enough for halak (unless packaged with someone else, i.e. if Halak + Gionta = Carter + draft pick). Halak is a an RFA and if signged to an offer sheet the return would probably be more then getting another backup or a 2nd round pick in return now. Similarly, with the numbers Price has had (win-loss), we woudn't get maximum value for moving him right now anyways. If we can, lets sign them both and let them EARN their playing time next year.

I wouldn't move any of our young guys (Ak46, SK74, MaxPax, Laps, Pouliot), unless we got offers that totally knocked our socks off. But depending on how Dags reacts to his 2 week conditioning stint, he would be a guy I woudn't be advese to moving, since he may be lost in waivers next year anyway.

Cammy, Markov and Pleks are the guys I'd want to keep and then get some more good, skilled, character guys to lead the young guys. Gionta is a great skilled/grit/leadership guy, I just don't like his cap hit for FIVE years. Moen is a great depth player to have, and honestly, we need more guys like him next year for our 4th line.

But seriously, I want to see a better plan to build for the future then what Gainey put in place last year and I'd like to see a new coach - yep that would mean that yet again we would have to eat a coaches salary - but at least coaches salaries aren't a cap hit. I'd much rather eat Martin's salary then laraques!

I'm sure most people think i'm over-reacting in light of the Cammy injury, but really, I think we had a fringe playoff team to begin with, with Cammy gone, we may as well use it as an oppertunity to try and REALLY build for the future rather then the Gainey Band-Aid strategy.

Edited January 31, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[BTH]

What really has me irate about the leafs-flames deal is that despite all of the talk about our scoring, our REAL hole is on D. We don't have any nastiness or big shooter that can play on a REGULAR basis with markov, or any other Dman who can move the puck out of our zone.

Phaneuf would have been a great guy to pickup to improve our D and fill many of the hole we have on D.

Would a deal that included the likes of Moen, MAB, SK74, Spacek and Dags or Lapierre really been much better then the Leafs deal????? Hell, with the Flames issues at center, we may even have been able to unload the awful Gomez salarycap hit.

There's a big difference between those guys and who Calgary got.

Stajan's consistently put up 15 goals a season and produced pretty well for a third liner. Last year he finished with 55 points. This season he's set to finish with 60+ points and 20-25 goals. Basically, he's a third liner that can fill in on the second line.

Hagman's numbers over the past 3 seasons go like this:

2007-08 Dallas Stars NHL 82 27 14 41

2008-09 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 65 22 20 42

2009-10 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 55 20 13 33

He's a proven 20 goal scorer that may even break 30 this year.

Ian White is loved by Leaf fans. He's a 20-40 point offensive d-man having a career year in goals and points. He doesn't have Spacek's track record, but he has better numbers this year. He's also much more desirable when you factor in age and contract.

A comparable Montreal offer might have been something like Andrei Kostisyn, Sergei Kostitsyn and Josh Gorges. (The Leafs also threw in Jamal Mayers who's something like Metropolit or Lapierre.) And yet..... we don't have the cap space to make this happen! So there was really no chance of a deal being made. Unless you think the Flames would have taken Gomez (highly doubtful) or Hamrlik (when they were clearly after scoring depth) in the deal.

[JacksonJ]

Well in that case, I wouldn't mind if Gainey were to trade Gomez for Kariya - not bcoz i want kariya, but only bcoz, it would get Gomez's cap hit off the books.

Again, I LIKE gomez as a player, but his salary is going to handcuff us from being able to icing a competitive team going forward. I'd rather move gomez and try and sign Pleks to a deal in the $4-4.5M range and then look for another center.

If Cammy is gone for the year, the habs may as well blow up this bunch NOW, rather then try and squeak into the playoffs. I'm not saying we should tank it, but lets face it, we NEED to move some salary and try and pick up prospects to make sure we are better next year.

IMO, the guys that they should be looking at moving are:

- Mara (UFA anyways)

- Spacek (doubt if they can move him, given his hit for the 3 years)

- Hamrlik (again tough to move)

- Gomez (again, $7.3M for his production just isn't worth it)

- MAB - cheap cap hit, but is a UFA and may get us a mid draft pick or an experienced solid 3rd/4th line guy - the guys this year just didn't cut it!!

- Metro- (UFA anyway) lets face it, should be easily repalceable next year, but could be a good affordable depth pickup for a team like WSH, PITT, SJS.

I'd even consider moving Gionta if we could pick up a younger and bigger prospect or player with more upside.

Unlike most people, I wouldnt want to move one of our goalies, unless its a deal that knocks our socks off. I don't think we would get enough for halak (unless packaged with someone else, i.e. if Halak + Gionta = Carter + draft pick). Halak is a an RFA and if signged to an offer sheet the return would probably be more then getting another backup or a 2nd round pick in return now. Similarly, with the numbers Price has had (win-loss), we woudn't get maximum value for moving him right now anyways. If we can, lets sign them both and let them EARN their playing time next year.

I wouldn't move any of our young guys (Ak46, SK74, MaxPax, Laps, Pouliot), unless we got offers that totally knocked our socks off. But depending on how Dags reacts to his 2 week conditioning stint, he would be a guy I woudn't be advese to moving, since he may be lost in waivers next year anyway.

Cammy, Markov and Pleks are the guys I'd want to keep and then get some more good, skilled, character guys to lead the young guys. Gionta is a great skilled/grit/leadership guy, I just don't like his cap hit for FIVE years. Moen is a great depth player to have, and honestly, we need more guys like him next year for our 4th line.

But seriously, I want to see a better plan to build for the future then what Gainey put in place last year and I'd like to see a new coach - yep that would mean that yet again we would have to eat a coaches salary - but at least coaches salaries aren't a cap hit. I'd much rather eat Martin's salary then laraques!

I'm sure most people think i'm over-reacting in light of the Cammy injury, but really, I think we had a fringe playoff team to begin with, with Cammy gone, we may as well use it as an oppertunity to try and REALLY build for the future rather then the Gainey Band-Aid strategy.

I agree that with Cammy gone we should forget this year's playoffs and set our sights to the future, but the problem is the guys you are saying we should trade. Mara, Spacek, Gionta and MAB all just signed with us and Gomez was just traded for. How does it look to this year's potential UFAs when we are having a fire sale on last year's crop?

[hab29RETIRED]

There's a big difference between those guys and who Calgary got.

Stajan's consistently put up 15 goals a season and produced pretty well for a third liner. Last year he finished with 55 points. This season he's set to finish with 60+ points and 20-25 goals. Basically, he's a third liner that can fill in on the second line.

Hagman's numbers over the past 3 seasons go like this:

2007-08 Dallas Stars NHL 82 27 14 41

2008-09 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 65 22 20 42

2009-10 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 55 20 13 33

He's a proven 20 goal scorer that may even break 30 this year.

Ian White is loved by Leaf fans. He's a 20-40 point offensive d-man having a career year in goals and points. He doesn't have Spacek's track record, but he has better numbers this year. He's also much more desirable when you factor in age and contract.

A comparable Montreal offer might have been something like Andrei Kostisyn, Sergei Kostitsyn and Josh Gorges. (The Leafs also threw in Jamal Mayers who's something like Metropolit or Lapierre.) And yet..... we don't have the cap space to make this happen! So there was really no chance of a deal being made. Unless you think the Flames would have taken Gomez (highly doubtful) or Hamrlik (when they were clearly after scoring depth) in the deal.

I wouldn't want to move AK46, but would include Gorges in a heartbeat. Frankly I think that SK74 is a better prospect then Hagman or Stajan and would have given the flames a setup guy for Iginla/Jokinin/Bourque/Moss.

Lets also not forget the the Flames also added Aulie who is a solid defensive prospect.

To me Stajan/Hagman's production is a case of two guys playing on really bad teams and are getting goals just bcoz there is no one there other then Kessel. It's why Blake was able to get 40 with the NYI, why Savage was able to put up a number of 25+ goal seasons in Montreal.

I think the Flames got fleeced almost as badly as they did in the Gilmour deal. I think it gives them some depth this year, but I think Burke hit a grand slam for the leafs.

I also think that this may be have been one of the few situations where we may have been able to move Gomez - salary hit is similar and the Flames are really hurting for a centre to play with Iginla. Jokinin hasn't really worked out and Langkow is a $4m bust.

Edited January 31, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[JGC21]

I agree that with Cammy gone we should forget this year's playoffs and set our sights to the future, but the problem is the guys you are saying we should trade. Mara, Spacek, Gionta and MAB all just signed with us and Gomez was just traded for. How does it look to this year's potential UFAs when we are having a fire sale on last year's crop?

Agreed. I don't think trading all the guys that were signed last summer is the answer. I still think this team is capable of more with a few changes and with everyone healthy.

I think players like Hamrlik and Gill can be traded at the deadline because playoff bound teams are always looking for depth on the blueline. That's a savings of $8M. If Halak gets moved, then maybe he's part of a package deal that nets us a good top-6 forward? I think a series of moves is needed to better the team for next year.

Don't give up on all the new players just yet, they haven't even played together for a full year.

[hab29RETIRED]

I agree that with Cammy gone we should forget this year's playoffs and set our sights to the future, but the problem is the guys you are saying we should trade. Mara, Spacek, Gionta and MAB all just signed with us and Gomez was just traded for. How does it look to this year's potential UFAs when we are having a fire sale on last year's crop?

Of the UFA guys mentioned, only Spacek is signed beyond this year anyways, the rest will be UFA's again this year and would be traded to rentals where they have an oppertunity to go to contenders.

Gomez is the only other guy who is signed long-term and he was traded for. I don't see an issue moving a guy that was traded for.

In the case of Gionta, it would have to be a real good oppertunity, and other teams have moved their UFA signings without an adverse affect on their ability to sign free agents.

For all of Burke's talk about respecting Kaberle's NTC, he did try and move him last year and WILL move home during the 30 day window this summer. If Kaberle isn't moved, one of Komisarik or Beachimean will be moved to pickup supplementary scoring.

Blake was a UFA pickup that the leafs dumped - and he was one of those guys who signed to come home. In the past the leafs have signed guys like Roberts and asked them to waive their NTC and have had no issues signing new UFA's.

[hab29RETIRED]

Agreed. I don't think trading all the guys that were signed last summer is the answer. I still think this team is capable of more with a few changes and with everyone healthy.

I think players like Hamrlik and Gill can be traded at the deadline because playoff bound teams are always looking for depth on the blueline. That's a savings of $8M. If Halak gets moved, then maybe he's part of a package deal that nets us a good top-6 forward? I think a series of moves is needed to better the team for next year.

Don't give up on all the new players just yet, they haven't even played together for a full year.

We can get more at the deadline from teams making a run then we will in the summer for all of the assets we have available, with the exception of our goalies. SOmeone needing defense may make a move for spacek now, but i doubt if anyone is going to want to pick up his over 35 gauranteed contract over the summer when there is less urgency and more options available.

Edited January 31, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Habsy]

Of the UFA guys mentioned, only Spacek is signed beyond this year anyways, the rest will be UFA's again this year and would be traded to rentals where they have an oppertunity to go to contenders.

Gomez is the only other guy who is signed long-term and he was traded for. I don't see an issue moving a guy that was traded for.

In the case of Gionta, it would have to be a real good oppertunity, and other teams have moved their UFA signings without an adverse affect on their ability to sign free agents.

For all of Burke's talk about respecting Kaberle's NTC, he did try and move him last year and WILL move home during the 30 day window this summer. If Kaberle isn't moved, one of Komisarik or Beachimean will be moved to pickup supplementary scoring.

Blake was a UFA pickup that the leafs dumped - and he was one of those guys who signed to come home. In the past the leafs have signed guys like Roberts and asked them to waive their NTC and have had no issues signing new UFA's.

Blake is american.

[hab29RETIRED]

Blake is american.

my bad. I remember who eager he was to goto the leafs, so had thought he was eager to go home like roberts and Neiwendyk were.

[BTH]

I wouldn't want to move AK46, but would include Gorges in a heartbeat. Frankly I think that SK74 is a better prospect then Hagman or Stajan and would have given the flames a setup guy for Iginla/Jokinin/Bourque/Moss.

Lets also not forget the the Flames also added Aulie who is a solid defensive prospect.

To me Stajan/Hagman's production is a case of two guys playing on really bad teams and are getting goals just bcoz there is no one there other then Kessel. It's why Blake was able to get 40 with the NYI, why Savage was able to put up a number of 25+ goal seasons in Montreal.

I think the Flames got fleeced almost as badly as they did in the Gilmour deal. I think it gives them some depth this year, but I think Burke hit a grand slam for the leafs.

I also think that this may be have been one of the few situations where we may have been able to move Gomez - salary hit is similar and the Flames are really hurting for a centre to play with Iginla. Jokinin hasn't really worked out and Langkow is a $4m bust.

I agree that Toronto made a good trade. I was just pointing out that there wasn't much chance of Gainey being able to top Toronto's offer.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Kariya is a UFA at the end of the season, making 6 million. They'd want either if they were convinced they could still be a playoff team without Cammalleri and would be content simply with making the postseason. No cap effect beyond the season, could be worse.

Fortunately it's just a rumour, because Whitney and Kariya are exactly the wrong direction. Ancient geezers with big names and no upside beyond the short term. Unless we're giving up equally old geezers, we'd be dealing picks and/or youth to get help now, when the best result might be winning a couple of games in the opening round.

Gainey had better not do something like this.

Full credit to Burke, he went out and got highly talented young players who can define his core for years to come. Calgary went for the quantity-over-quality theory of trade returns, which is reminiscent of Boston in the Thorton trade. It sort of makes sense given Calgary's depth on the blueline and their total lack of young talent up front. But those sorts of deals seem usually to favour the team getting the Big Player back.

Conversely, there's one thing wrong with Burke's strategy - both Kessel and Phaneuf are punks who alienated their original organizations. This could blow up in his face over time. Or, those young men could mature into the elite players their talent would dictate. All I'm saying is there's an element of risk in making these guys your core.

Edited February 1, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber