JoeLassister Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Yeah, having him play with a 12 year NHL veteran is bad. That's way too much responsibility, what do those guys know about playing in the NHL? If Sean O'Donnell is good enough for Drew Doughty, than Hal Gill is good enough for P.K. Subban. Yes, but Doughty is WAAAAYY superior to Subban iMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Yes, but Doughty is WAAAAYY superior to Subban iMO. I have to think that that's everyone's opinion, no offense to PK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Yes, but Doughty is WAAAAYY superior to Subban iMO. Not implying that he was. Just sticking up for Gill. And saying that young guys can develop even when paired with non-All-Star veterans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Gill is good in certain situations but aweful in others. No matter how long he has been in the league, he is very slow and usually has to rely on his partner to patch up his errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I have to think that that's everyone's opinion, no offense to PK. I dunno Subban is on pace to have a 82 pt season hahahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Gill is good in certain situations but aweful in others. No matter how long he has been in the league, he is very slow and usually has to rely on his partner to patch up his errors. Bingo. He's at most a 6th dman. And a 6th dman at 2.250M$ is totally unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 He is a large part why the habs PK is top ten in the league. If you want to look at peeps overpaid look at Spacey...his salary is grossly larger than Gill for what each brings to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 He is a large part why the habs PK is top ten in the league. If you want to look at peeps overpaid look at Spacey...his salary is grossly larger than Gill for what each brings to the table. Spacek (who just took a tripping penalty, mind you) plays 20-22 minutes of plus level hockey. He makes the going rate for those kinds of minutes. His offensive game isn't where it was in Buffalo, but again he's playing his off-side. Gill at $2.2m is WAY better than Mara at $1.6m. Gill is a bit of a luxury player: his PK skills make him better than the prototypical 3rd pair D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Spacek (who just took a tripping penalty, mind you) plays 20-22 minutes of plus level hockey. He makes the going rate for those kinds of minutes. His offensive game isn't where it was in Buffalo, but again he's playing his off-side. Gill at $2.2m is WAY better than Mara at $1.6m. Gill is a bit of a luxury player: his PK skills make him better than the prototypical 3rd pair D. On Gill, I think he is a very steady defenseman if used properly. On Toronto he was just thrown out there, in Pittsburgh he was used in situations that emphasized his strengths. The only problem IN HINDSIGHT I have with Spacek is that the Canadiens blocked the ascension of Subban, Weber and Carle with him. They surely didn't estimate Subban adapting so quickly. With Hamrlik expiring next season they should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 On Gill, I think he is a very steady defenseman if used properly. On Toronto he was just thrown out there, in Pittsburgh he was used in situations that emphasized his strengths. The only problem IN HINDSIGHT I have with Spacek is that the Canadiens blocked the ascension of Subban, Weber and Carle with him. They surely didn't estimate Subban adapting so quickly. With Hamrlik expiring next season they should be ok. Once Hammer goes (something I'm not looking forward to, but which is inevitable), look for Spacek to revert back to his proper side and probably bring a bit more than he has thus far brought. Meanwhile, PK will have to step in and eat a fair number of minutes. Huge cap savings, conceivably without losing *too* much on D. I like Gill. I do tire of fans always focusing on what a player can't do and ignoring what he can. Gill is a massive PK presence, some much-needed size on D, a veteran leader, and decently effective at keeping the slot clean. Teams need guys like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonJ Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Once Hammer goes (something I'm not looking forward to, but which is inevitable), look for Spacek to revert back to his proper side and probably bring a bit more than he has thus far brought. Meanwhile, PK will have to step in and eat a fair number of minutes. Huge cap savings, conceivably without losing *too* much on D. I like Gill. I do tire of fans always focusing on what a player can't do and ignoring what he can. Gill is a massive PK presence, some much-needed size on D, a veteran leader, and decently effective at keeping the slot clean. Teams need guys like that. Anyone wearing last year's Stanley Cup ring is fine in my books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Once Hammer goes (something I'm not looking forward to, but which is inevitable), look for Spacek to revert back to his proper side and probably bring a bit more than he has thus far brought. Meanwhile, PK will have to step in and eat a fair number of minutes. Huge cap savings, conceivably without losing *too* much on D. I like Gill. I do tire of fans always focusing on what a player can't do and ignoring what he can. Gill is a massive PK presence, some much-needed size on D, a veteran leader, and decently effective at keeping the slot clean. Teams need guys like that. There ya go again...taking the words right out of my head! I like what he is and has. What he doesn't have isn't there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 do any one think we should lock O'Byrne up to a long term deal????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 do any one think we should lock O'Byrne up to a long term deal????? Sure, at the right price. With arguably the team's top 3 young d-men (Subban, Weber, Carle) all being RH shots, the organization doesn't have to rush to do so though. He's got one more year left (talks on an extension couldn't even start until July 1), lots could change between now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Sure, at the right price. With arguably the team's top 3 young d-men (Subban, Weber, Carle) all being RH shots, the organization doesn't have to rush to do so though. He's got one more year left (talks on an extension couldn't even start until July 1), lots could change between now and then. but ob is 6,5 and a right hand shot and he keeps getting better and better..i dont think he ever be a allstar but with his size he could be a really good long term player for us if we sign him to a 5 year deal now at a cheap rate...i just hope he dont become a another komi..a good but over rate player that some other gm over pays for..his 25 now so in 2 year he become ufa..so i think if we could sign him soon to even a 3 year deal at a cheap rate it might be in our fav.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 O'Byrne is getting better, I just hope that no one is expecting him to become a number 1 or 2 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 but ob is 6,5 and a right hand shot and he keeps getting better and better..i dont think he ever be a allstar but with his size he could be a really good long term player for us if we sign him to a 5 year deal now at a cheap rate...i just hope he dont become a another komi..a good but over rate player that some other gm over pays for..his 25 now so in 2 year he become ufa..so i think if we could sign him soon to even a 3 year deal at a cheap rate it might be in our fav.. What is one of the issues that a lot of people harp about when it comes to the inept cap management by the Habs this year? Paying depth defencemen too much money. We currently have a $1.625 M healthy scratch and most would agree that Gill, the #5/6 d-man, makes too much at $2.25 M. In order to entice O'Byrne to sign an extension that's 5 years long, that's the type of money we'd be talking at the very least. Can he be more than realistically a 3rd pairing d-man in the future? I like him, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to take the next step to really become a cog to build around. He has an arbitration eligible offseason coming in 2011, I could see the Habs maybe giving him a 2, max 3 year deal and hope to keep it around $1.75 M; otherwise, he may be gone quickly. Heck, given the recent tradition of players who wear the #20, he'll probably be gone this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 A guy has a solid two month stretch and now we want him locked up, a year before his contract expires, for five years. Okay now. Good thing Matt D'Agostini didn't get the same treatment a year ago. Let's see what guys like O'Byrne can do in the post-season, and what he can do when he's guaranteed a spot at training camp. Whatever the case, the summer of 2011 is shaping up to be like the summer of 2007... 4 free agent d-men at once (Markov, Hamrlik, Gorges, O'Byrne). Not all will be retained... and Markov should be priority #1 yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 (edited) A guy has a solid two month stretch and now we want him locked up, a year before his contract expires, for five years. Okay now. Good thing Matt D'Agostini didn't get the same treatment a year ago. Let's see what guys like O'Byrne can do in the post-season, and what he can do when he's guaranteed a spot at training camp. Whatever the case, the summer of 2011 is shaping up to be like the summer of 2007... 4 free agent d-men at once (Markov, Hamrlik, Gorges, O'Byrne). Not all will be retained... and Markov should be priority #1 yet again. As long as one of those guys gets signed, (The Russian guy) I will be happy. Edited March 15, 2010 by BCHabnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Heh, just realized that there are FIVE free agent d-men in 2011. Forgot to include Gill on the list. Gorges and O'Byrne will be restricted free agents with arbitration rights, one year from unrestricted free agency. So they'll be due raises, even if it is for just one year, that will essentially equate them with UFA pay level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 A guy has a solid two month stretch and now we want him locked up, a year before his contract expires, for five years. Okay now. Good thing Matt D'Agostini didn't get the same treatment a year ago. Let's see what guys like O'Byrne can do in the post-season, and what he can do when he's guaranteed a spot at training camp. Whatever the case, the summer of 2011 is shaping up to be like the summer of 2007... 4 free agent d-men at once (Markov, Hamrlik, Gorges, O'Byrne). Not all will be retained... and Markov should be priority #1 yet again. with the new nhl and the cap gms got to really do there jobs..they got to sign players before they become really good nhlers to get a deal..this is where bob made alot of mistake.he always try to wait last min to sign guys when they were playing great which always made him over pay..i think O'Byrne is just as good as komi and well be better them him in 2 year....O'Byrne as a better shot and a better figther the only thing he dont do great is run around looking for big hits so habs fan could fall in love with him..i know we got good D coming up but i really think locking up a 6,5 right shot that well fight for a couple of more years might be a good idea for the right deal.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 with the new nhl and the cap gms got to really do there jobs..they got to sign players before they become really good nhlers to get a deal..this is where bob made alot of mistake.he always try to wait last min to sign guys when they were playing great which always made him over pay..i think O'Byrne is just as good as komi and well be better them him in 2 year....O'Byrne as a better shot and a better figther the only thing he dont do great is run around looking for big hits so habs fan could fall in love with him..i know we got good D coming up but i really think locking up a 6,5 right shot that well fight for a couple of more years might be a good idea for the right deal.. So if you were the GM, what would you be willing to pay him, knowing full well that his ceiling may be where he is now, as a 3rd pairing d-man? There's a huge risk in giving this type of player a long term deal (mind you if he pans out, there's a good reward). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 So if you were the GM, what would you be willing to pay him, knowing full well that his ceiling may be where he is now, as a 3rd pairing d-man? There's a huge risk in giving this type of player a long term deal (mind you if he pans out, there's a good reward). its hard to say but right now his playing with Markov as the first pairing most of the time..i think...playing with marko done alot for komi..so if your the coach and gm and you see obyrne playing their for the next couple of season you really might what to get him signed..i see a changing of the guard with markv and pk in a few years..so if you think ob can play along side subban in the future it might be worth locking him up..i would at least talk to his agent..but i would wait till the summer before any talks.. i think we should do a 3 year deal at about.. 1.25 mil, 2 mil, 2.25mil with a cap hit of 1.83... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Well for one thing Subban and O'Byrne are both RD, they won't be paired together. ! mill is fair, as i stated earlier, if there is no trades of defenseman he won't even have a spot in the top 6. I would hope the best case scenario for him is if he can take over what Gill brings to the team, great Pk guy, 3rd pairing solid stay at home defenseman with size. He is probably in the long term plans along with Gorges, Markov and Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Well for one thing Subban and O'Byrne are both RD, they won't be paired together. ! mill is fair, as i stated earlier, if there is no trades of defenseman he won't even have a spot in the top 6. I would hope the best case scenario for him is if he can take over what Gill brings to the team, great Pk guy, 3rd pairing solid stay at home defenseman with size. He is probably in the long term plans along with Gorges, Markov and Subban. Agree with that part for sure. If more than one of those young RH D pan out, a guy like Gorges will move back to the left side long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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