patience is a virtue Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think the nut's point was that they want to start winning soon and not wait years for a drafted dman to develop. They have no star dman, despite having a quality support staff in the making, and this may be the opportunity to get a young one already playing in the league from a team desperate for that covetted big start C. I am not sure which teams might have the combo of that need plus two or more young star dman in the fold, but if such a team exists (Buffalo perhaps), I'd bet Tambelini is calling them when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I wouldn't assume that drafting a D is such a slam dunk for the Oilers if they are picking at #2. At last years draft they got Klefbom at 19th overall, who is a hell of a prospect. He was a WJC all-star this year for the gold medal Swedish team. They also took Musil at 31st overall (not quite, but basically a first rounder and traded for Teubert. That's pretty much three first rounders added. Then you have Ryan Whitney, Smid, Peckham and Petry who are all younger D and in the NHL. If they think Grigo is the BPA, they might go centre, and set up a 1-2 punch down the middle. Despite Gagner's 8 pt night, I'm not sure they believe in him, and let's not forget he has been heavily involved in trade rumors. In a defence heavy draft they'll have the opportunity to get another D at 31st overall too (new jersey will forfeit their first rounder). I have no doubt they'd like a D and Ryan murray and Matt dumba as Alberta boys are attractive, but its no sure thing here. The big advantage with a Murray, is that he is done with juniors this year and is more "NHL ready" than anyone else and the Oiler fans patience is likely running out? Sure he may not be an impact guy in first year or 2, but Cam Fowler did have 40 points as a rookie and Murray may appear pretty attractive, as his game is quite similar i think? Sure they could trade down and get Reinhart, Reilly or Maatta but all are a cut below Murray/Dumba arnt they? And really do they need another pick and wait a couple years for these other d-men to develop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I certainly see the argument for Murray and I see the attraction. I'm just saying the oilers aren't set at centre. And they have a supporting cast even if they don't have a number 1 D. They very well might go Murray, but its no slam dunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My thinking was that Tambelini could trade the #1 pick altogether and a player for a high end defenseman who is already playing. They need defense, but they need to start winning now, not later when their draft picks have developed. The farm in Edmonton is stocked and the core is set. Time to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My thinking was that Tambelini could trade the #1 pick altogether and a player for a high end defenseman who is already playing. They need defense, but they need to start winning now, not later when their draft picks have developed. The farm in Edmonton is stocked and the core is set. Time to win. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My thinking was that Tambelini could trade the #1 pick altogether and a player for a high end defenseman who is already playing. They need defense, but they need to start winning now, not later when their draft picks have developed. The farm in Edmonton is stocked and the core is set. Time to win. Possibly but they need to find a taker to trade with and a D who wont pull a pronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Possibly but they need to find a taker to trade with and a D who wont pull a pronger dont give em any ideas, i am countin on Oilers going after a d-man at #2, not some other team choosing between Forsberg, Grigorenko or Galchenyuk before the Habs get a crack at them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 dont give em any ideas, i am countin on Oilers going after a d-man at #2, not some other team choosing between Forsberg, Grigorenko or Galchenyuk before the Habs get a crack at them! If Edmonton has second overall and wants a D-man while Montreal is third overall and wants a centre, if our GM can't work something out with them, that's a huge fail. Edmonton would probably take Weber or a third to switch spots and ensure both teams get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If Edmonton has second overall and wants a D-man while Montreal is third overall and wants a centre, if our GM can't work something out with them, that's a huge fail. Edmonton would probably take Weber or a third to switch spots and ensure both teams get what they want. That would be slick!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If Edmonton has second overall and wants a D-man while Montreal is third overall and wants a centre, if our GM can't work something out with them, that's a huge fail. Edmonton would probably take Weber or a third to switch spots and ensure both teams get what they want. Me and my oilers friend we disusing this exact scenario at lunch today haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If Edmonton has second overall and wants a D-man while Montreal is third overall and wants a centre, if our GM can't work something out with them, that's a huge fail. Edmonton would probably take Weber or a third to switch spots and ensure both teams get what they want. How many times have teams swapped picks when they're back to back picks? It seems silly to me... the only way it seems like a good idea is if another team tries to move up we have to outbid to block that move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 How many times have teams swapped picks when they're back to back picks? Aside from the craziness that was 1999, it doesn't happen much. That said, this year is a unique situation. A couple forwards at top, everything else D-men and the 29th team needs a D-men, not one of the forwards at the top. Unless Edmonton lucks out at the draft lottery, I can see them either moving down the draft for additional picks/prospects or maybe even just going ahead and drafting a Murray or Dumba at second/third overall without batting an eye about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 How many times have teams swapped picks when they're back to back picks? It seems silly to me... the only way it seems like a good idea is if another team tries to move up we have to outbid to block that move... I believe the Habs did it with Edmonton years ago. They wanted Higgins while Edmonton was going off the board and knew they could drop down a spot (they took Jesse Ninnimaki I believe, spelling may be off there though, been a while since I've seen the name). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 How many times have teams swapped picks when they're back to back picks? It seems silly to me... the only way it seems like a good idea is if another team tries to move up we have to outbid to block that move... That would exactly be the scenario... Our offer would have to be better for Edmonton than Toronto's, let's say. Or Dallas'. Whoever wants Grigorenko is bidding with Edmonton to move up... Montreal is in the same boat as everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 That would exactly be the scenario... Our offer would have to be better for Edmonton than Toronto's, let's say. Or Dallas'. Whoever wants Grigorenko is bidding with Edmonton to move up... Montreal is in the same boat as everyone else. Not really if the Oilers are only moving down 1 spot rather than 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not really if the Oilers are only moving down 1 spot rather than 10. When we have to outbid the other teams, the value of the package will also include the value of the draft picks the oilers are getting. For example we are already starting at an advantage because we are offering the 3rd overall pick + extra, and say Toronto is offering 8th overall + extra. Toronto's extra is going to have to be a lot more in order to make up the difference between 3 and 8. Especially since this draft has 7 players (3D, 4Fwds) who are above the others IMO, and picking Reilly, Ceci or Reinhart, is a significant downgrade from Murray, Trouba and Dumba IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehabbit Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 When we have to outbid the other teams, the value of the package will also include the value of the draft picks the oilers are getting. For example we are already starting at an advantage because we are offering the 3rd overall pick + extra, and say Toronto is offering 8th overall + extra. Toronto's extra is going to have to be a lot more in order to make up the difference between 3 and 8. Especially since this draft has 7 players (3D, 4Fwds) who are above the others IMO, and picking Reilly, Ceci or Reinhart, is a significant downgrade from Murray, Trouba and Dumba IMO. As far as the consensus view exists now of course. We all know that the top seven players selected will not turn out to be the best seven selected. Edmonton could trade down if they are getting a solid young nhl dman who can jump in immediately plus a top ten pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 As far as the consensus view exists now of course. We all know that the top seven players selected will not turn out to be the best seven selected. Edmonton could trade down if they are getting a solid young nhl dman who can jump in immediately plus a top ten pick. Of course... someone drafted in the 3rd 4th or 5th round will probably replace one of those 7 who busts as among the best players in the draft. But we can only work off the information we have now... if we knew who it would be in those later rounds, he wouldn't be picked late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Of course... someone drafted in the 3rd 4th or 5th round will probably replace one of those 7 who busts as among the best players in the draft. But we can only work off the information we have now... if we knew who it would be in those later rounds, he wouldn't be picked late. I dont know why all talk about trading up or down? 3rd to 5th is good enough and likely where Habs will land. And #1 is Yakupov and at #2 or 3 some other team will take a d-man, so still leaves a few super looking forwards. If look at past few drafts, the top five picks still all seem like super choices, jury is out on Johansen (but Columbus has terrible luck) and Neiderreiter is still way to early to tell, but both of these could be busts at #4 and 5. But odds of finding a top skill guy in top 5 is pretty friggin high and i wouldnt worry about trading anything nor up in draft. Anyways, would you know if many of 2012 prospects play in a Under-18 tournament in April? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quite a few of the top U-18 guys don't make it to the World U-18's because their club team is still playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I dont know why all talk about trading up or down? 3rd to 5th is good enough and likely where Habs will land. And #1 is Yakupov and at #2 or 3 some other team will take a d-man, so still leaves a few super looking forwards. If look at past few drafts, the top five picks still all seem like super choices, jury is out on Johansen (but Columbus has terrible luck) and Neiderreiter is still way to early to tell, but both of these could be busts at #4 and 5. But odds of finding a top skill guy in top 5 is pretty friggin high and i wouldnt worry about trading anything nor up in draft. Anyways, would you know if many of 2012 prospects play in a Under-18 tournament in April? Much like the World Championships in the NHL it depends if their CHL or USHL teams are eliminated from playoffs. Also a Yakupov who is a late birthday (ie his 18th birthday was in 2011) are not eligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaboom Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 well if we keep paying like that last night we just might get the first over all pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 well i guess this just proves that CC was right at the beginning of the year when he said our defence would suffer without Wiz and Hamerlik there to bail us out.... I would gladly take the Hammer back for next season as a 6th d man, he is head and shoulders above campoli, kaberle or weber. And last year he played over 20 mins a game....I would never trust campoli or weber with that much ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 well i guess this just proves that CC was right at the beginning of the year when he said our defence would suffer without Wiz and Hamerlik there to bail us out.... I would gladly take the Hammer back for next season as a 6th d man, he is head and shoulders above campoli, kaberle or weber. And last year he played over 20 mins a game....I would never trust campoli or weber with that much ice time. Hammer has really regressed in Washington and has been a healthy scratch on a few occassions. I don't think bringing him in is the answer. I agree we shouldn't have trusted Campoli with the role, but letting Hammer go was the right move. The mistake was not finding a younger defenceman who could take over Hammer's minutes and his play in the defensive zone. He needed to be replaced and wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hammer has really regressed in Washington and has been a healthy scratch on a few occassions. I don't think bringing him in is the answer. I agree we shouldn't have trusted Campoli with the role, but letting Hammer go was the right move. The mistake was not finding a younger defenceman who could take over Hammer's minutes and his play in the defensive zone. He needed to be replaced and wasn't. I havent seen him play in Washington but last year for us he was a horse...we just need someone to stabalize the defence. next years defence core needs to be alot better. Markov - Yemilin Subban - Gorges Kaberle - matt carle ? or better yet (and i know i am dreaming) Markov - Ryan Suter Subban - Gorges Diaz - yemelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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