Letang Turns Down 7 Million Per = Bad News For Habs?

[ForumGhost]

So Letang turned down 7 million per year over 8 years (max contract length). Considering that Subban was considered in the same class as him even before he locked down the Norris, is this going to set the bar for Subban's new contract after next season? I was hoping that Subban would sign somewhere around 6 million, but if Letang is able to negotiate his way north of 7 million, you can bet Subban will ask for just as much.

It's funny that many people were on MB's side when he strong-armed Subban into a short term deal last season, but in the end it looks it hurt the team rather than help it in the long run, as Subban did nothing but raise his value.

I think Letang has set a troubling precedent, as I thought that the lowering of the cap would make players realize they will have to sign for less money, even if only slightly. 7+ seems fair, if not a little much, for a great defensemen (mind you, his bread and butter is an offensive game on a team with Crosby, Malkin and company) in the pre-lockout cap era, but now it just seems like way too much. If players still think it's okay to sign for these amounts, I can see contracts like this outright crippling teams.

[dlbalr]

There is a difference between the Subban/Letang comparison (besides the fact one won the Norris and the other didn't). Letang is a UFA at the end of his current deal, Subban still has two RFA years left. So while the back years of Subban's deal could theoretically exceed that of Letang (who probably will be traded soon if that report is true), the RFA years at a slightly lower salary should in theory keep the cap hits similar.

Also, keep in mind that had Subban signed the 5 year deal at $5.5 M that had been reported, the Habs would be even tighter to the cap than they are now (the $9 million being bandied about fails to take into consideration the ~$2.7 M in potential bonuses, some of which for sure will be hit). The reduction in the cap for 2013-14 played a bigger role in the bridge deal than many seem to believe.

Edit: It's also now being reported that he turned down $6.75 M per and is looking for a little over $7.8 M per with a full NTC (just below Shea Weber for highest d-man cap hit in league history).

Can confirm Letang's agent Kent Hughes countered the Penguins 8 year, $54 million offer, asking for 8 years, $62.5 million/ full NTC

https://twitter.com/TIOPS_DePaoli/status/350437658511671296

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The idea of Subban signing for $6 mil is, I think, comical. The guy is a Norris-trophy-winning, franchise defenceman. He will command top dollar. Get used to it.

I'm increasingly concerned that it's Carey Price's contract that'll be a millstone for the franchise. I like Price a lot. But $6.5 mil is a huge cap hit for a guy who has not yet shown that he can dominate in the crunch, in an NHL marketplace where quality goalies are a dime a dozen. PK will get at least $7 mil and be worth every penny; the problem, I suspect, will lie elsewhere.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'm honestly not worried at all.

Letang wants to either get paid a ridiculous amount or leave the Penguins.

Subban was always a lot more "team" first.

Subban is going to get paid but he isn't going to hold the team up for ransom.

As for Price's contract, it's getting interesting how his inconsistency flows with message board opinion. Everyone worries about Price now, nobody worries about Price later.

[ForumGhost]

The idea of Subban signing for $6 mil is, I think, comical. The guy is a Norris-trophy-winning, franchise defenceman. He will command top dollar. Get used to it.

I'm increasingly concerned that it's Carey Price's contract that'll be a millstone for the franchise. I like Price a lot. But $6.5 mil is a huge cap hit for a guy who has not yet shown that he can dominate in the crunch, in an NHL marketplace where quality goalies are a dime a dozen. PK will get at least $7 mil and be worth every penny; the problem, I suspect, will lie elsewhere.

Well, what I meant was 6 million before this season began, which was where a lot of people had him for a long term contract.

[Habsfan]

I never liked Letang. Yes he's a good d-man, but I think there are many d-men out there who would put up just as good stats as he does if they played on a team that has Crosby, Malkin and company.

Switch Letang and Subban, and Subban would probably get 15 points more per year and Letang would get 15 points less.

As far as this hurting our chances of signing Subban, well one thing is for certain, we will not get Subban for anything less than 6.5 million per year. But he'll be worth every penny!

[JoeLassister]

Also, keep in mind that had Subban signed the 5 year deal at $5.5 M that had been reported, the Habs would be even tighter to the cap than they are now (the $9 million being bandied about fails to take into consideration the ~$2.7 M in potential bonuses, some of which for sure will be hit). The reduction in the cap for 2013-14 played a bigger role in the bridge deal than many seem to believe.

I guess it comes down to this question : Is it more convienient for Marc Bergevin to deal with an extra ~2,7M$ on Subban's contract next season while we still have Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Eller at 1,5M$ or less OR to deal with an extra ~2M$ on Subban's contract in 4-5 years, when these 3 will get much more money ?

[Commandant]

I guess it comes down to this question : Is it more convienient for Marc Bergevin to deal with an extra ~2,7M$ on Subban's contract next season while we still have Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Eller at 1,5M$ or less OR to deal with an extra ~2M$ on Subban's contract in 4-5 years, when these 3 will get much more money ?

I'm guessing that by 2014-15 the cap will start rising again... which will alleviate much of the issue. As will the fact that markov and gionta will be off the books (or back at a reduced rate).

We always freak out about cap stuff, but it never seems to be an issue 99% of the time.

[JMMR]

I'm guessing that by 2014-15 the cap will start rising again... which will alleviate much of the issue. As will the fact that markov and gionta will be off the books (or back at a reduced rate).

We always freak out about cap stuff, but it never seems to be an issue 99% of the time.

Yep how many times has the cap actually prevented the Habs from getting someone?

I don't even think the Habs were right against the cap with Gomez ever.

[Neech]

Yep how many times has the cap actually prevented the Habs from getting someone?

I don't even think the Habs were right against the cap with Gomez ever.

It hasn't happened yet, but we're heading that way with the young players we have. IMO it won't have to do with getting someone so much as keeping them - look at the Blackhawks and Bruins this year. They don't even have bad contracts but they're forced to make some tough choices with key players. The Habs, on the other hand, have never had such a quality core so bad contracts have never come back to bite us. The Subban deal will force us to make a tough decision on an important player down the road, a Gally or Eller or someone not yet on the team - it's just inevitable on a spend-to-the-cap team.

As for Letang, it just shows how little loyalty he has. Will Gaston Therrien and the weight of the French media come down on him like they did on Subban during his hold-out? I doubt he'll be worth that sort of money on another team.

[Commandant]

The only team that has ever had to lose core pieces due to the Cap was Chicago in 2010 and that was due to the bonuses paid to Toews and Kane for winning the Cup.

How many times have Philly been in cap trouble?

The Rangers?

Detroit?

Boston?

All those teams were supposed to be screwed by the cap, but it never happens.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yep. The whole cap thing is a gigantic red-herring for fans who love to play armchair GM and to use the cap as a club with which to demonstrate their supposedly superior sagacity. I can't count how many times various acquisitions and contracts have been greeted with absolute hysteria by wanna-be capologists. Kaberle was going to just destroy our chances of winning!! Cole was a crushing blow!! Cammy was a crippling and untradeable contract!! Etc., etc. Even Gomez - the real issue there was more that we gave up McDonagh and that Gomez stopped being the player he was when he acquired him, than the cap hit as such. Most teams have a couple of significantly 'overpaid' players. Yet some fans act as though the Cup goes to the team with the most cap space. It's nuts.

Now obviously teams need some kind of competence when it comes to managing the cap, and certainly it's valid to say that so-and-so's cap hit is problematic. But it seldom warrants the kind of hysteria we get. The cap continually rises, and teams generally find ways out of jams created by big contracts; it's not that big a deal.

[Neech]

The only team that has ever had to lose core pieces due to the Cap was Chicago in 2010 and that was due to the bonuses paid to Toews and Kane for winning the Cup.

How many times have Philly been in cap trouble?

The Rangers?

Detroit?

Boston?

All those teams were supposed to be screwed by the cap, but it never happens.

Boston is losing Ference - played second pairing minutes for them - and Chicago is losing Bolland, he of the cup winning goal. Detroit is losing their second line centre, Filpula. And these teams don't have bad contracts. Of course, they would rather keep them, but this isn't possible in a cap world.

We've never had the quality to run into cap issues, and the only reason why Kaberle and Gomez aren't bringing our team down now is that the lockout gave us an out.

With stars taking cap hits 1-2 million more than before because of the ban on front-loading, bad contracts will become more of a hindrance to hasty teams.

[JoeLassister]

Boston is losing Ference - played second pairing minutes for them - and Chicago is losing Bolland, he of the cup winning goal. Detroit is losing their second line centre, Filpula. And these teams don't have bad contracts. Of course, they would rather keep them, but this isn't possible in a cap world.

We've never had the quality to run into cap issues, and the only reason why Kaberle and Gomez aren't bringing our team down now is that the lockout gave us an out.

With stars taking cap hits 1-2 million more than before because of the ban on front-loading, bad contracts will become more of a hindrance to hasty teams.

Exactly. But now, with Price, Subban and Galchenyuk + some good assets (Patch and potentially Gallagher, Eller, Tinordi, Beaulieu), we will get some big bucks contracts like other teams with superstars players have. This is why I always wanted a Martin St-Louis type of deal for Subban if possible.

[hab29RETIRED]

Exactly. But now, with Price, Subban and Galchenyuk + some good assets (Patch and potentially Gallagher, Eller, Tinordi, Beaulieu), we will get some big bucks contracts like other teams with superstars players have. This is why I always wanted a Martin St-Louis type of deal for Subban if possible.

agreed. I thought the habs should have locked him for 9 to 11 years pre-lockout. It should have been a no brainer to lock him up for 8 years after the lockout. Getting 5 years of his UFA years at a $2m to $3m annual discount would have been worth it. Now we are also going to pay $7M+ for his last two RFA years.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Boston is losing Ference - played second pairing minutes for them - and Chicago is losing Bolland, he of the cup winning goal. Detroit is losing their second line centre, Filpula. And these teams don't have bad contracts. Of course, they would rather keep them, but this isn't possible in a cap world.

We've never had the quality to run into cap issues, and the only reason why Kaberle and Gomez aren't bringing our team down now is that the lockout gave us an out.

With stars taking cap hits 1-2 million more than before because of the ban on front-loading, bad contracts will become more of a hindrance to hasty teams.

Ference is no big loss, but Chicago is making a huge mistake to trade Bolland to keep Bickell. Maybe they think Shaw is ready for that role, but even before his cup winning goal, he really grew on me during the playoffs.

[Commandant]

Andrew Ference? This is the big loss? The guy is getting older and the Bruins have guys like Hamilton, Bartkowski and others who are ready for an NHL role. This is not exactly gutting the team.

Bolland will be traded for other assets.... he still has value, and Chicago will replace him... just as they did the last time... they kept their core and replaced the third liners. They found a way. And got another Stanley Cup just 3 years after cap jail... and really they have faced it worse than anyone as I said, the only team really hurt here.

At most teams lose fringe pieces not their core due to the cap. And they rebuild the fringe quickly.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It is fundamental to a cap system that you need to replace quality veterans with cheaper quality youth. That's not the same thing as being in "cap trouble." As long as you've got a strong system, you can let non-core assets walk. So I'm with Commandant on this general point.

[Guest Stogey24]

Bolland is an easily replaceable player

[Neech]

Word is that the Bruins are shopping Seguin - looks like they prioritize Bergeron and Kreicji over him.

To me, it just seems obvious that if Subban is making 2 million more than he would have for the next 4-5 years after this season, and we're a spend-to-the-cap team, then that amount WILL prevent us from retaining or acquiring a player down the line.

And the situation of the Habs is different going forward than it has been in the salary cap era; our Komisarek-Higgins-Kostitsyns group was deemed useless and blown up, and our key players since have been UFAs. It's only now with an upcoming group of REAL quality that we're in line for tough cap decisions down the road. It's a good sort of problem to have - an excess of talent - but it will still be a problem. We would still run into these issues had we signed Subban to a more cap friendly deal, but his future contract WILL make things tighter.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Good to remember that Seguin has not developed into a center and has been a winger for two years now with Boston.

[Colin]

Subban won't be resigned until the Habs have some idea of where the cap will be next season (which will probably be long before we, as fans, hear about it). Letang's greed won't mean all that much anyhow, other than a very loose benchmark. I suspect Subban will take a number approximating Letang's wish here, but I have no stress about him signing or the amount he'll be paid.

If I were to offer one piece of advice to Habs fans regarding Subban? Don't stress it, the situation will resolve itself appropriately and we won't be disappointed.

[Habsy]

As usual, Colin in the voice of reason around here. PK is already our best player, and he's not even in his prime. He's going to make a huge amount of money, and always be in Norris Trophy conversations. It'll get done, and hopefully here, for many years.

[bbp]

Maybe Bergevin maybe should have taken Subban's deal last year