Nov. 5 Blues vs Habs 7:30 PM

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't think trading Plekanec is an answer, that's for sure. Faceoff % aside, I was impressed with his game. Confident, authoritative, reliably involved, good 200-foot game - he is a real key cog up front and quite possibly our next captain. I also don't think our forwards were really the problem last night. They didn't dominate, but they were...OK. It was in our own zone that the chaos happened.

I agree that goons have only marginal utility; they're good for neutralizing the intimidation factor of other teams' goons and that's about it. I also think we can make too much out of size. We need to think in terms of teams like Chicago and Detroit - a perennial contender but never a team of bruisers. Eller and Galchenyuk - the future of the team down the middle - are not power forwards but they're also not shrimps by any means. Gallagher is a gem regardless of size. Bournival looks like he can be a really valuable piece of an eventual contender. Add Michael McCarron to a top-9 with that sort of mix, along with genuine big body MaxPac, and you can imagine the outlines of team that could become a contender along the Red Wings/Hawks model. Obviously we're nowhere near that point yet; I'm just saying that it would be a mistake to conclude that we're on the wrong path just because St. Louis manhandled us physically.

For that matter, the first goal involved Backes knocking Murray on his arse. Murray is a huge bruiser. So size as such isn't a magic bullet.

Neech, as for us almost winning: that's true, but I can't imagine the team we saw last night surviving any seven-game series against a team like the Blues. We might steal a win or two based on goaltending and opportunistic scoring (like last night) - but no one in their right minds would favour us to win that series. That game was a good yardstick for how far away we are from being truly Cup-ready.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Bournival impresses me every game. Always doing something I didn't expect. There was one play against the Blues where he drove for the puck and then kept possession, trying to find a play. He couldn't find a play but the Blues didn't necessarily take the puck from him. The Habs simply couldn't keep the play together. Bournival still did a ton of work on possession.

[Neech]

Neech, as for us almost winning: that's true, but I can't imagine the team we saw last night surviving any seven-game series against a team like the Blues. We might steal a win or two based on goaltending and opportunistic scoring (like last night) - but no one in their right minds would favour us to win that series. That game was a good yardstick for how far away we are from being truly Cup-ready.

Favour us to win? No. But we could, if stuck to our game, as we saw against Boston in 2011 (and this is a better team than that one). If this game is indeed a good yardstick, then I say it's an optimistic one: with good goaltending and a mistake-free game, we can hang in against the best of them. We're a ways from being a favourite, but we're competitive.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Parros with White and Blunden gave up 3 goals in 7 shifts.

He won't be "fine"

The guy was the worst forward on the worst team in the NHL last season. He simply can't play hockey.

Moot point, but Parros is better than Jerred Smithson.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

So your suggestion is we build a team like the flyers of old and just fight all the time? If Nail is a step in the wrong direction, I think you have lost your way. Nail is a gifted goal scorer and not a smurf. And yeah I watched the game, we need a guy to score goals. We can dump DD Briere Gionta as far as I am concerned but we desperately need goal scoring. We got enough fighters thanks.

Nail Yakupov is a punk kid who doesn't backcheck, doesn't play a team game, is a sulker, and doesn't really seem to understand the NHL game. Last I checked, he has 5 points this year. More of the the same. I'm not saying forward under 6' are ineffective, but at what point is enough enough? The Flyers have this same issue with their dmen.

[habs rule]

Nail Yakupov is a punk kid who doesn't backcheck, doesn't play a team game, is a sulker, and doesn't really seem to understand the NHL game. Last I checked, he has 5 points this year. More of the the same. I'm not saying forward under 6' are ineffective, but at what point is enough enough? The Flyers have this same issue with their dmen.

You seem to know nail very well, I wonder how the heck he got drafted so high? Being so worthless and all.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

You seem to know nail very well, I wonder how the heck he got drafted so high? Being so worthless and all.

Same way Alexandre Daigle, Patrik Stefan et al got drafted, out of this world numbers in junior.

[JMMR]

Same way Alexandre Daigle, Patrik Stefan et al got drafted, out of this world numbers in junior.

I think your sadly mistaken if you believe Nail will bust.

Yes he's struggling but he's an elite talent capable of 70+ point seasons and scoring 40 goals.

If the Habs could land him it would be massive.

[hab29RETIRED]

Unless we traded Subban for him.

I think the Oilers would only move him for a top pairing D, or a big power forward or centre.

Otherwise Mactavish is even dumber than I think he is.

I think your sadly mistaken if you believe Nail will bust.

Yes he's struggling but he's an elite talent capable of 70+ point seasons and scoring 40 goals.

If the Habs could land him it would be massive.

[Commandant]

What about this one :

Guys like Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Subban, etc.... they can skate.

Guys like Reaves and Polak are just big plugs.

What is your point ? that the Habs are the only team with big plugs ? Cuz they're not.

Reaves and Polak are better hockey players than Parros and Murray....

The point was when we went on this "more bigger" kick of acquiring guys this summer... and grabbed Murray and Parros... we grabbed two plugs. If we want to truly make the team tougher to play against, we need to find top 6 players with size and grit.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Reaves and Polak are better hockey players than Parros and Murray....

The point was when we went on this "more bigger" kick of acquiring guys this summer... and grabbed Murray and Parros... we grabbed two plugs. If we want to truly make the team tougher to play against, we need to find top 6 players with size and grit.

The Habs are 13-13 on PKs since Murray came back. Where's that in the dialogue today? At least I can admit that Parros's skills are marginal at best. It's amazing, twenty years without any success and fans are still paying to see the same product, packaged in the same way. If the fans would stop paying top dollar for these games like in Boston when the Bruins sucked, we would see some real change. Moar big, or moar skilled, or moar tank, whatever. This isn't the 50's-70's anymore, the Habs should trend along with the league, instead of thinking they know something the other organizations do not. (Gainey rebuild/Briere signing/JM instead of Guy Boucher) The Briere signing to me proved that MB is just more of the same. Nothing "Moar Bigger" about Briere, just "moar suckyier."

I've been on this board for a few years. There are some who disagree with everything the organization does, some who agree with it all, i'm in the middle. But if they keep rolling out the same type of team, (with the token few big guys and the smurf forwards and top 4) getting bounced every year for twenty years, why do you guys think you're so right?

Fodder for the smurfaholics, here's to twenty more years of shrimps and first round exits. The devll you know...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I know Murray looked awful - horrendous! - on that first goal...but he also blocked about a billion shots and was terrific in controlling the puck along the boards on the PK. He's not a "plug." He has value, and I would expect him to commit fewer blunders as he rounds into game shape (not that a slow-foot like him will avoid blunders entirely).

Neech, I agree we're competitive. I like the team we've seen this year: they play hard, they have exciting young players. We're just not in the class of a St. Louis.

Lovett, I don't know if Bergevin is a top-notch GM or not, but I do know that he is playing the long game, building from within, and refusing to do things like sign Clarkson to massive long-term deals even if it means getting "moar bigger" or whatever. Briere was a mistake, but it was also a short-term mistake, a quintessential patch-up while we wait for the young talent to mature. If you're going to look for quick fixes and instant solutions, you're obviously gonna dislike what he does, but in MB's defence, you're also unlikely ever to win a Cup bringing that attitude to the table.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I think he's an average to good GM, maybe with the salary cap, the days of the game breaking GM are over. He's too conservative for my liking. His trades have had a minimal impact, and in free agency and the deadline he's been mute. I don't buy his argument that you can't get bigger players through trades, and with his "build through the draft" ethos he's hanging himself. Montreal doesn't have the patience for that. If they miss the playoffs this year, and start slowly the next the press will call for his head.

So far, he's done well to get some cheap deals under the cap, but at some point he has to justify his place on the payroll and make something happen. Has he really done anything to put his stamp on the team? The Briere and Desharnais deals, and the Subban mini holdout are what will be remembered, if say, he were to be fired tomorrow.

This team has some great pieces, but cmon man, show that you have brass balls outside of the negotiating table.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think he's an average to good GM, maybe with the salary cap, the days of the game breaking GM are over. He's too conservative for my liking. His trades have had a minimal impact, and in free agency and the deadline he's been mute. I don't buy his argument that you can't get bigger players through trades, and with his "build through the draft" ethos he's hanging himself. Montreal doesn't have the patience for that. If they miss the playoffs this year, and start slowly the next the press will call for his head.

So far, he's done well to get some cheap deals under the cap, but at some point he has to justify his place on the payroll and make something happen. Has he really done anything to put his stamp on the team? The Briere and Desharnais deals, and the Subban mini holdout are what will be remembered, if say, he were to be fired tomorrow.

Free agency - who has been out there that you would have signed to a massive, long-term contract? Are you mad we missed Clarkson? (I agree we should have gone after Jagr. But that's hardly a game-breaking mistake).

Deadline trade - well, you can either sell and weaken yourself now for longer-term gains, or you can buy, sacrificing long-term gains for immediate benefit. As a team in the middle of a rebuild I can totally see why Bergevin has been discreet at the deadline.

If you say Montreal doesn't have the patience to build a winner, then you're consigning us to eternal mediocrity. You may be right, but to my mind it's way premature to draw conclusions about MB one way or the other, except to say that his fashion sense is out there.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

The fashion sense is spot on for this franchise, maybe Therrien will follow suit. I think building through the draft is a nice idea, but it works best when you get a top 5 player in the league. I didn't want Clarkson, but to go into this season with that trash fire of a defense we have is mismanagement. (I know you said this also).

The job of the coach is to get the most out of his players. The job of a GM is to do everything in his power to ice the best team every year. If he thinks he's going to kick back from the second week of July to May, and kick ass in the draft and pre free agency contract negotiations, three years and he'll be gone.

[DON]

The Habs are 13-13 on PKs since Murray came back. Where's that in the dialogue today? At least I can admit that Parros's skills are marginal at best. It's amazing, twenty years without any success and fans are still paying to see the same product, packaged in the same way. If the fans would stop paying top dollar for these games like in Boston when the Bruins sucked, we would see some real change. Moar big, or moar skilled, or moar tank, whatever. This isn't the 50's-70's anymore, the Habs should trend along with the league, instead of thinking they know something the other organizations do not. (Gainey rebuild/Briere signing/JM instead of Guy Boucher) The Briere signing to me proved that MB is just more of the same. Nothing "Moar Bigger" about Briere, just "moar suckyier."

I've been on this board for a few years. There are some who disagree with everything the organization does, some who agree with it all, i'm in the middle. But if they keep rolling out the same type of team, (with the token few big guys and the smurf forwards and top 4) getting bounced every year for twenty years, why do you guys think you're so right?

Fodder for the smurfaholics, here's to twenty more years of shrimps and first round exits. The devll you know...

And Canucks-Leafs-Oilers-Flames-Sens-San Jose-St Louis-Rangers and bout 15 American teams are doing much better with a different model and winning championships with bigger roster players? And Wings-Hawks won with goons and jumbo forwards?

Large size and Goons are way overrated.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

And Canucks-Leafs-Oilers-Flames-Sens-San Jose-St Louis-Rangers and bout 15 American teams are doing much better with a different model and winning championships with bigger roster players? And Wings-Hawks won with goons and jumbo forwards?

Large size and Goons are way overrated.

Maybe. But they got their pride. They don't get emasculated by their two biggest rivals every year. We comment on message boards and have day jobs where humility and being a cog in the wheel is the norm, but they're alpha males competing for millions of dollars on the world stage. Being bullied has to eat away at them. They're competitors, and if I were on the team last year after the 6-0 defeat to the Leafs, I wouldn't sit in dressing room discussing fenwick and the average weight of the last five Cup champs with the boys after being physically humiliated. Even better was getting smoked in that game v the Senators and getting their collective ass beat in the fights.

[DON]

So Sedin doing nothing when Marchand was slapping him around was wrong by your thinking?

He didn't react and you think less of him for that I assume? If Lucic slapped Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Markov around, you would think the same of them if they didn't drop the gloves and "be a man"?

If a player pulled that childish crap in NFL/NBA/MLB/Rugby etc etc, he would be instantly gone from game, fined and likely suspended. And why is that, when they are the exact same entertainment business, is every other pro team sport out to lunch and only NHL has it correct?

So I don't see goonery as the answer and simply a very low form of childish reaction by grown men, but just seems so common sensical that proper officiating would cure most of BS, unsportsmanlike conduct and cheap shots, that any pro-goon argument is laughable. And propogation of such by old timers and old-school owners is why NHL retains it bush-league tendencies.

Sorry to rant, but nauseating to hear same low-brow argument that unskilled fighters are "required-needed-good for the game-etc", when it is so obvious to be just the opposite.

[Colin]

I'm sorry, are we starting the argument to have MB canned too?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

In a league where other teams have goons and those goons intimidate your players, you can make a good case for having a goon yourself, to neutralize that intimidation factor. This was presumably Bergevin's thought process in hiring The Moustache. Ideally, Parros would only be dressed for games, like those against TO, where you know the other team is going to try to run you out of the rink. Trying to use him for 12 minutes a night, every night, is a bit ridiculous. That becomes a question of depth in the bottom-6.

All of this is quite separate from the question of whether "there is a place for goons and/or fighting in hockey." The issue is how you respond to being in a league where there IS a place for all of that.

And the idea that we can never win without humungous hulks up the middle is wrong. I give you Detroit and Chicago, two of the league's top franchises. That's the model for us.