Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I haven't watched a game in a while....is our defense really this bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Panthers with 4 more shots in the 3rd than 1st and 2nd combined. I haven't watched a game in a while....is our defense really this bad? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 thank god we have price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Briers should be out with Pleks... Pleks gets tossed so often on the draw we should have another natural center out, not Gionta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well we can stop worrying about Price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hung on for the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 we need a serious upgrade on the back end. We may make the playoffs but we are out in the first round for sure...i cant imagine that Tinordi or Beaulieu would be worst than what I just saw. I think we should trade all or our high picks in the upcoming draft for upgrades now!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 we need a serious upgrade on the back end. We may make the playoffs but we are out in the first round for sure...i cant imagine that Tinordi or Beaulieu would be worst than what I just saw. I think we should trade all or our high picks in the upcoming draft for upgrades now!!!! Cause you think we're a cup contender with a few tweaks? If not, it's wise to keep our assets and save them for when a move will really make a difference. (if so, then you've been following a different team than the rest of us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Cause you think we're a cup contender with a few tweaks? If not, it's wise to keep our assets and save them for when a move will really make a difference. (if so, then you've been following a different team than the rest of us). I think we can win a round or two with some tweaks...I'm not suggesting we sell for oldtimers, I think there are some players out there that may be available for players plus picks that would be a substantial upgrade for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I don't think MB has any plans to get rid of picks or prospects. If they make the playoffs, They played all right, played hard for half the game anyway, defense was soft, slow and can't or won't play physical and win battles. had some decent scoring chances, both goalies were good, Price was lights out in the third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 we need a serious upgrade on the back end. We may make the playoffs but we are out in the first round for sure...i cant imagine that Tinordi or Beaulieu would be worst than what I just saw. I think we should trade all or our high picks in the upcoming draft for upgrades now!!!! Pacioretty with 9 shots and a few hits, great game. I would only call up AHL guys if injury occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think we can win a round or two with some tweaks...I'm not suggesting we sell for oldtimers, I think there are some players out there that may be available for players plus picks that would be a substantial upgrade for the next few years. Yeah sure, everyone wants upgrades that wouldn't mortgage the future, but those sorts of deals aren't available often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think we can win a round or two with some tweaks...I'm not suggesting we sell for oldtimers, I think there are some players out there that may be available for players plus picks that would be a substantial upgrade for the next few years. There's too many trade rumors around the CH for something not to be in the works. Bergevin hasn't made a meaningful trade yet , you'dthink he wwould want to put some kind of stamp of his own on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 We need to make a hockey trade, that doesn't necessarily mean trading picks and prospects. Diaz Gionta Briere Gorges DD must be worth something to someone. we need goal scoring. If we are that far away from being a legitimate contender, then prospects 3 years down the road will not help. We need to build this team everyday, we have players that need to go and kids that need to come up. Or we will be a playoff team forever with no post season hopes. Building is an everyday job not one for 3 years down the road. But I am impatient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Personally I think there are many good prospects already in our system. I am not suggesting moving any prospects we already have (unless we get blown out of the water with a deal). I am suggesting it would be advantageous to find help for our team now by packaging players (Like Eller or Briere or Gorges) and picks for a upgrade in certain areas. I don't know who we should target specifically but if we keep waiting for help to come from in the organization we will miss our window. Kulikov looked pretty good tonight by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 We need to make a hockey trade, that doesn't necessarily mean trading picks and prospects. Diaz Gionta Briere Gorges DD must be worth something to someone. we need goal scoring. If we are that far away from being a legitimate contender, then prospects 3 years down the road will not help. We need to build this team everyday, we have players that need to go and kids that need to come up. Or we will be a playoff team forever with no post season hopes. Building is an everyday job not one for 3 years down the road. But I am impatient. ya I'm getting impatient too.....anyone who watches hockey even casually can see we need a better top four Defense. There has got to be a team out there that has a top four D-man for Gionta or Briere and a First. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Personally I think there are many good prospects already in our system. I am not suggesting moving any prospects we already have (unless we get blown out of the water with a deal). I am suggesting it would be advantageous to find help for our team now by packaging players (Like Eller or Briere or Gorges) and picks for a upgrade in certain areas. I don't know who we should target specifically but if we keep waiting for help to come from in the organization we will miss our window. Kulikov looked pretty good tonight by the way... Just a minor tweek or two at end of Feb. is what I realistically expect, but of course a nice big trade is exciting, at least for a shirt while, till you see why the other teams traded that player to you in first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Briers should be out with Pleks... Pleks gets tossed so often on the draw we should have another natural center out, not Gionta. Briere played 12:12 tonight, over 95% of that was with Plekanec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Briere played 12:12 tonight, over 95% of that was with Plekanec. Yes, but late in the game they put Moen out instead, making Gionta the backup face off guy. I would use Briere instead of Gionta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I haven't watched a game in a while....is our defense really this bad? Not really. A lot of people here don't watch other teams in the NHL. We have the second best defensive game in the east. The whole reason Diaz' agent might be asking for more than we're willing to pay is because we play him as a third pairing D (and these days scratch him) while other teams would gladly take him in their top four. Our goals against has been out of whack due to the last few games but Pittsburgh and Tampa are not better defensive teams than us. Pittsburgh is trying to Jacques Martin their defence which has been great for them but it's not better than Subban/Markov/Gorges. Our goals against per game is tied for third in the league, behind only LA, Boston and equal with St. Louis. Think about that for a second. Despite a mediocre last 10 games, Montreal is still top three for goals against per game. That isn't all Price, though Price is a big part of it. We're middle of the pack for shots. Too much focus is on the mistakes and not the overall performance. This is the same reason certain people "question" PK Subban. The only player I'd say truly needs to wake up is Emelin but that'll come soon enough. Gorges is still a very responsible defensive defenceman, Subban is premium, Markov is premium, Bouillon shouldn't be on the team but hasn't been terrible and Murray looks like a third pairing D. Montreal's weaknesses right now from being an elite NHL team are: - Shots allowed - Shots made - Faceoff percentage - Five on Five goals for/against - one goal losses We need to shoot more, play better 5 on 5, close one goal gaps and be better on the dot. Almost all of this is focused on our offensive game, not our defensive game (aside from how many shots we allow). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not really. A lot of people here don't watch other teams in the NHL. We have the second best defensive game in the east. The whole reason Diaz' agent might be asking for more than we're willing to pay is because we play him as a third pairing D (and these days scratch him) while other teams would gladly take him in their top four. Our goals against has been out of whack due to the last few games but Pittsburgh and Tampa are not better defensive teams than us. Pittsburgh is trying to Jacques Martin their defence which has been great for them but it's not better than Subban/Markov/Gorges. Our goals against per game is tied for third in the league, behind only LA, Boston and equal with St. Louis. Think about that for a second. Despite a mediocre last 10 games, Montreal is still top three for goals against per game. That isn't all Price, though Price is a big part of it. We're middle of the pack for shots. Too much focus is on the mistakes and not the overall performance. This is the same reason certain people "question" PK Subban. The only player I'd say truly needs to wake up is Emelin but that'll come soon enough. Gorges is still a very responsible defensive defenceman, Subban is premium, Markov is premium, Bouillon shouldn't be on the team but hasn't been terrible and Murray looks like a third pairing D. Montreal's weaknesses right now from being an elite NHL team are: - Shots allowed - Shots made - Faceoff percentage - Five on Five goals for/against - one goal losses We need to shoot more, play better 5 on 5, close one goal gaps and be better on the dot. Almost all of this is focused on our offensive game, not our defensive game (aside from how many shots we allow). Good post. Emelin has been terrible (for Emelin) and that has put a kink in the Defense. When he is back on his game as a solid number 3 shut down guy with Gorges, the whole D will look better. Diaz is far better then people give him credit for. He isn't a big physical D and his offensive game is struggling, but he doesn't hurt the team. He plays well positionally and blocks a ton of shots. I suspect we will miss him once he is a number 3 guy on another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Habs have only had one 100+point season (07-08) since 102pts in 92-93. Habs last year were on pace for 107points (with a season end collapse and backing into playoffs), this year are on pace for 103. Doing quite well under new management. Some seem to be critical about "how" win, but they keep collecting points and all that really matters till April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 brobin pre-empted the point I wanted to make about our D. Emelin is our #3 defenceman, and you can't look at our blueline at a moment when Emelin playing the absolute worst hockey of his career and take that as representative of our defence corp's overall abilities. That said, while Machine's analysis above is excellent, I continue to doubt that this is a "contending" blueline. The main problem as I see it is less with Subban-Markov-Emelin than with Gorges, who would be one of the league's top #5 defencemen but is not a #4 defenceman on a truly strong team IMHO. One injury or slump in the Big Three and our D suddenly looks dire; and that's not sufficient depth to win a Cup. I'd love to see us acquire a solid all-around guy who can bump Gorges a notch down the depth chart. Of course, this might not be the TOP priority - a boost at FW probably is. But I really feel that if we win a Cup with this D is will only be because everything went exactly right - which is the definition of not being a true contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 brobin pre-empted the point I wanted to make about our D. Emelin is our #3 defenceman, and you can't look at our blueline at a moment when Emelin playing the absolute worst hockey of his career and take that as representative of our defence corp's overall abilities. That said, while Machine's analysis above is excellent, I continue to doubt that this is a "contending" blueline. The main problem as I see it is less with Subban-Markov-Emelin than with Gorges, who would be one of the league's top #5 defencemen but is not a #4 defenceman on a truly strong team IMHO. One injury or slump in the Big Three and our D suddenly looks dire; and that's not sufficient depth to win a Cup. I'd love to see us acquire a solid all-around guy who can bump Gorges a notch down the depth chart. Of course, this might not be the TOP priority - a boost at FW probably is. But I really feel that if we win a Cup with this D is will only be because everything went exactly right - which is the definition of not being a true contender. If we could some how get our hands on James Neal or that style of player we need to make that move. We need a top tier scorer. It may cost some money, but I think it's a good time to make a trade for a bigger name player that we can keep around for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Habs have only had one 100+point season (07-08) since 102pts in 92-93. Habs last year were on pace for 107points (with a season end collapse and backing into playoffs), this year are on pace for 103. Doing quite well under new management. Some seem to be critical about "how" win, but they keep collecting points and all that really matters till April. Brian Wilde made some great points last night about how last year, the team was freewheeling and exciting and scored a lot of goals but they were defensively inept. This year their defence is solid, along with brilliant goaltending, but they are not winning as flashy of games. This is what's creating the issue of people thinking the team is bad instead of just considering them slumping. Pretty much if you take their scoring from last year along with their overall defensive play from this season, you have a Stanley Cup contender. The team is just sometimes too young and sometimes too old to accomplish that balance. They are just not ready to show the consistency needed, but that doesn't mean they can't. That's not to say that in the past several games we haven't been poor. We got the points to mask it and that's what a good team does, but I don't consider it our overall play. I think Therrien has been making some lineup mistakes, we have been trying to spread our offence thin, we've been using our defensive players the wrong way, our PP has been focused too much on the back end and we clearly need an upgrade in certain places .But that's why we're a team in progress. brobin pre-empted the point I wanted to make about our D. Emelin is our #3 defenceman, and you can't look at our blueline at a moment when Emelin playing the absolute worst hockey of his career and take that as representative of our defence corp's overall abilities. That said, while Machine's analysis above is excellent, I continue to doubt that this is a "contending" blueline. The main problem as I see it is less with Subban-Markov-Emelin than with Gorges, who would be one of the league's top #5 defencemen but is not a #4 defenceman on a truly strong team IMHO. One injury or slump in the Big Three and our D suddenly looks dire; and that's not sufficient depth to win a Cup. I'd love to see us acquire a solid all-around guy who can bump Gorges a notch down the depth chart. Of course, this might not be the TOP priority - a boost at FW probably is. But I really feel that if we win a Cup with this D is will only be because everything went exactly right - which is the definition of not being a true contender. Honestly, Diaz fits the bill of what you're looking for except he isn't physical enough. You know who would fit the bill of a guy who could move Gorges down the depth chart? Beaulieu. He just isn't there yet. Subban: top defenceman entering his prime Markov: top defenceman declining Emelin: pairing defensive defenceman in his prime Gorges: pairing defensive defenceman in his prime After that, you're either playing third pairing players (Cube, Murray, etc.) or you could play a young player. We've played Diaz, who has the skills to be a top four D-man but has some issues with physicality and consistency. The hope is to have Beaulieu and either Tinordi or Pateryn in the other spots. If we made a trade involving Diaz, I'd hope it's actually to package for a forward upgrade so we could just move up one of the kids. Commandant has made the point before, bringing up the kids at the same time is a mistake. Ease one in, bring up the other later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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