The OffSeason Thread

[dlbalr]

Tokarski is under contract till 2015/16 at 575,000 per year so we save a mill just by making him the backup. Let's face it MT played him over Budaij so no way peter comes back next year. MT does not have faith in him so either trade him or bury him in hamilton.

Just so it's out there, doing that wouldn't entirely clear his salary off the books. If Budaj were to go to Hamilton, he'd still count at $475,000 against the cap [$1,400,000-($550,000+$375,000)]. When you consider that Tokarski's cap hit is $562,500, they'd only save $362,500 on the cap by burying him in the minors. Is that really worth doing?

[Lovett's Magnatones]

One move i'd like to see, Brian Wilde mentioned it, would be to move Plek to Chicago. Michael Handzus is no second line center on a Dynasty. He wants a defenseman, but I would go after one of their wingers. Saad would be great, but the age and cap hits wouldn't work. I'd like to float a second and Plekanec for Patrick Sharp. Root against the Hawks tonight.

I don't think there's much roster turnover ahead. If this is a five year rebuild, MB is a year or two ahead of schedule. The last thing he wants to do is get greedy Jay Coaster style, purging picks and depth players for the final piece. The roster changed much from opening night to the game last week.

[tomh009]

Just so it's out there, doing that wouldn't entirely clear his salary off the books. If Budaj were to go to Hamilton, he'd still count at $475,000 against the cap [$1,400,000-($550,000+$375,000)]. When you consider that Tokarski's cap hit is $562,500, they'd only save $362,500 on the cap by burying him in the minors. Is that really worth doing?

I don't think so ...

[BCHabnut]

I would send Budaj down, and try to get Tokarski in 15 games before the deadline. If he is awesome, trade him for something good. Bring buds back up.

[habs rule]

Just so it's out there, doing that wouldn't entirely clear his salary off the books. If Budaj were to go to Hamilton, he'd still count at $475,000 against the cap [$1,400,000-($550,000+$375,000)]. When you consider that Tokarski's cap hit is $562,500, they'd only save $362,500 on the cap by burying him in the minors. Is that really worth doing?

Brian you are such a stickler. I think we do it if we believe that Tokarski is the better goalie. I think he is.

So of course we do it. Even up $ we should do it.

[Trizzak]

Just so it's out there, doing that wouldn't entirely clear his salary off the books. If Budaj were to go to Hamilton, he'd still count at $475,000 against the cap [$1,400,000-($550,000+$375,000)]. When you consider that Tokarski's cap hit is $562,500, they'd only save $362,500 on the cap by burying him in the minors. Is that really worth doing?

You're constantly bringing up ways that the Habs can save a little bit of cap space since they're always so tight to it...

But Budaj is tradeable, so this really is a moot point.

[BlueKross]

I think you are all forgetting about Tokarski's need. He is young and aspiring to be a starter. He needs to play. A backup roll to Price may not cut it.

[JCPetit]

I think you are all forgetting about Tokarski's need. He is young and aspiring to be a starter. He needs to play. A backup roll to Price may not cut it.

Don't you think that Tokarski has to start somewhere? Playing second violon for a couple of years in the NHL won't hurt. The young man has talent, but he has plenty of work to get better. First of all, he has to do a better job reducing the bounces and controlling them. Puck management around the net is also a priority. He should be ready for the top job in a year or two.

[dlbalr]

You're constantly bringing up ways that the Habs can save a little bit of cap space since they're always so tight to it...

I wasn't saying they shouldn't do it necessarily, just posing the question to see if others would since the savings are much lower than I think people realized.

Let me ask the question a different way...which is better:

A - Bury Budaj in the minors to have him as a 3rd stringer, save $362,500 on the cap.

B - Trade Budaj, sign a veteran goalie for Hamilton, save $837,500 on the cap (the difference between Budaj's and Tokarski's cap hits).

If you're committed to Tokarski as the backup moving forward, is it worth the extra $475,000 on the cap to keep Budaj around as the emergency 3rd stringer?

[habs rule]

I wasn't saying they shouldn't do it necessarily, just posing the question to see if others would since the savings are much lower than I think people realized.

Let me ask the question a different way...which is better:

A - Bury Budaj in the minors to have him as a 3rd stringer, save $362,500 on the cap.

B - Trade Budaj, sign a veteran goalie for Hamilton, save $837,500 on the cap (the difference between Budaj's and Tokarski's cap hits).

If you're committed to Tokarski as the backup moving forward, is it worth the extra $475,000 on the cap to keep Budaj around as the emergency 3rd stringer?

well that depends on Budaij's trade value, I don't think that it is very high, there I based my bury him in the AHL because if we can't trade him, he has to go somewhere. My first preference is to trade him.

[DON]

well that depends on Budaij's trade value, I don't think that it is very high, there I based my bury him in the AHL because if we can't trade him, he has to go somewhere. My first preference is to trade him.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Budaj-Tokarski? I have zero clue as to which way Bergevin who go?

[BlueKross]

Don't you think that Tokarski has to start somewhere? Playing second violon for a couple of years in the NHL won't hurt. The young man has talent, but he has plenty of work to get better. First of all, he has to do a better job reducing the bounces and controlling them. Puck management around the net is also a priority. He should be ready for the top job in a year or two.

Exactly what I am saying. He needs to play. 10-15 games behind Price probably doesn't cut it. You could see him being part of a tandem in the NHL, just not with price.

[habs rule]

Exactly what I am saying. He needs to play. 10-15 games behind Price probably doesn't cut it. You could see him being part of a tandem in the NHL, just not with price.

He has played the grand total of 15 games in the NHL, I think a couple of years as a backup is totally a good thing for him. 5 games in the playoffs does not a career make.

[Habsfan]

I'd like to float a second and Plekanec for Patrick Sharp.

I'd love to see the Habs pull that kind of trade off, but realistically speaking, you are NOT gonna get Patrick Sharp out of Chicago for Plex and a 2nd rounder...simply not gonna happen!

[sim.on]

Aparently MB mentioned in his latest press conference that if he has it his way he would like to bring Gio back next year. Gio does bring intangibles such as PK, leadership and the smarts and tenacity to get 20 goals but I dont think he is a top 6 forward anymore.

What type of deal would you give him?

Personally, I find it a tough decission. He is still a contributor but you dont want to keep him around too long either just cause you like the guy. I'd have a hard time giving him any more that 7 mill over 2 years. The problem though, is that is less than Briere got and Gio is still the better player imho.

[sim.on]

I'd love to see the Habs pull that kind of trade off, but realistically speaking, you are NOT gonna get Patrick Sharp out of Chicago for Plex and a 2nd rounder...simply not gonna happen!

Yea, Sharp led the Hawks in scoring last season although technically Kane was slightly better in the ppg category. I could work though with some additional pieces involved. Plek and Sharp are close in age and relatively close in contract term and value. Sharp might score a bit less with us and Plek a bit more with them due to the surrounding pieces.

I really don't expect anything huge this off season though. There is a lot to be said for having those veterans bring up the young guys the right way.

I really like what I was seeing from Chucky at the end of the year, especially since he was just coming back from and injury. I think his leash will get longer next season and he'll score 20 for the first time and in 2015-16 he will finally approach a ppg, fingers crossed .

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Aparently MB mentioned in his latest press conference that if he has it his way he would like to bring Gio back next year. Gio does bring intangibles such as PK, leadership and the smarts and tenacity to get 20 goals but I dont think he is a top 6 forward anymore.

What type of deal would you give him?

Personally, I find it a tough decission. He is still a contributor but you dont want to keep him around too long either just cause you like the guy. I'd have a hard time giving him any more that 7 mill over 2 years. The problem though, is that is less than Briere got and Gio is still the better player imho.

Funny thing about Gio, he scored 18 goals this season and had 40 points. That's a drop-off of about 10 goals, but broadly consistent overall with his "good years" with us. I'd say $3 mil for 2 seasons, but 3.5 is probably more realistic. More than that seems excessive and two years would be my definite maximum, though. He may be important to team chemistry but he is no longer anything special at all in terms of on-ice performance. I don't buy Briere as a "comparable" - Briere was supposed to deliver playoff scoring. With one measly goal this post-season, Gio cannot make that argument.

[BCHabnut]

Funny thing about Gio, he scored 18 goals this season and had 40 points. That's a drop-off of about 10 goals, but broadly consistent overall with his "good years" with us. I'd say $3 mil for 2 seasons, but 3.5 is probably more realistic. More than that seems excessive and two years would be my definite maximum, though. He may be important to team chemistry but he is no longer anything special at all in terms of on-ice performance. I don't buy Briere as a "comparable" - Briere was supposed to deliver playoff scoring. With one measly goal this post-season, Gio cannot make that argument.

I am a bit confused about the general thought around Briere. He was not a good fit to begin with. We all accept that. But I can't count the times that Briere had a big game in his 7 minutes with the fourth line, only to return and have his minutes cut. I argue that if he were given DD minutes and linemates, we would be praising Briere and lamenting DD for his performance. The Briere signing was MB biggest mistake as a gm. The two just have no place on the same team as far as balance goes. The same can be said for having two top six right wingers under 5'8". This is not a slight on Briere. I just think there is no room for him on the team.

My big wish for the off season, is to try to balance the team. I am less concerned with the individuals than I am with The balance. Out of balance team has to play emelin and Vanek in key roles on their UN natural side. And unbalanced team has Chucky, Plek, DD, Briere as 2nd line centres. I would like to see more players in their natural positions. Whoever needs to be dealt or allowed to walk over the next 2 years, this is what my big wish is. This is a reason I would like to retain Budaj and trade Tokarski at the deadline. Budaj and Price are a great balance.

[sim.on]

I am a bit confused about the general thought around Briere. He was not a good fit to begin with. We all accept that. But I can't count the times that Briere had a big game in his 7 minutes with the fourth line, only to return and have his minutes cut. I argue that if he were given DD minutes and linemates, we would be praising Briere and lamenting DD for his performance. The Briere signing was MB biggest mistake as a gm. The two just have no place on the same team as far as balance goes. The same can be said for having two top six right wingers under 5'8". This is not a slight on Briere. I just think there is no room for him on the team.

My big wish for the off season, is to try to balance the team. I am less concerned with the individuals than I am with The balance. Out of balance team has to play emelin and Vanek in key roles on their UN natural side. And unbalanced team has Chucky, Plek, DD, Briere as 2nd line centres. I would like to see more players in their natural positions. Whoever needs to be dealt or allowed to walk over the next 2 years, this is what my big wish is. This is a reason I would like to retain Budaj and trade Tokarski at the deadline. Budaj and Price are a great balance.

quality post

[Toronthab]

I think you are all forgetting about Tokarski's need. He is young and aspiring to be a starter. He needs to play. A backup roll to Price may not cut it.

Price isn't retiring next season. Tokarski wants to be (is) and NHL goalie. We have an excellent team player in Budaj and don't need another starting goalie. Let him fly... (bad new age music playing in background...) Do what we have to do to get him ready to trade. He made a hell of an impression across the continent (and remained continent doing it).

He can help us fill a position we do need help with.

And finally.. what the hell do I know?

[Toronthab]

Isn't it wonderful that I don't have to make ANY decisions?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I am a bit confused about the general thought around Briere. He was not a good fit to begin with. We all accept that. But I can't count the times that Briere had a big game in his 7 minutes with the fourth line, only to return and have his minutes cut. I argue that if he were given DD minutes and linemates, we would be praising Briere and lamenting DD for his performance. The Briere signing was MB biggest mistake as a gm. The two just have no place on the same team as far as balance goes. The same can be said for having two top six right wingers under 5'8". This is not a slight on Briere. I just think there is no room for him on the team.

My big wish for the off season, is to try to balance the team. I am less concerned with the individuals than I am with The balance. Out of balance team has to play emelin and Vanek in key roles on their UN natural side. And unbalanced team has Chucky, Plek, DD, Briere as 2nd line centres. I would like to see more players in their natural positions. Whoever needs to be dealt or allowed to walk over the next 2 years, this is what my big wish is. This is a reason I would like to retain Budaj and trade Tokarski at the deadline. Budaj and Price are a great balance.

Yeah, lots of great insights here. I have trouble buying the "Briere didn't get ice" argument, inasmuch as it is the player's responsibility to force the coach's hand. Ultimately MT had more faith in Desharnais than Briere. But that's incidental to your main point, which is that there is no room on the roster as currently constructed for Briere. We all saw that, I'm sure MT sees it, and for all we know, Zoot Suit sees it too, but had his hand forced by Molson.

Balance, balance. I think ultimately your argument is of mixed success. That bit about players playing out of position is spot-on. I especially loathe it when defencemen are forced to play on the wrong side; all this does is ensure sub-par performances from the player in question. The Habs should adjust the roster to prevent that from being a necessity on the back end (although I'm not sure off the top of my head what that'd involve). It seems less of a problem at FW, although it was indeed unfair to Vanek to use him as you describe. But I'm still sorta curious about what would happen if we tried Eller (or even DD) on the wing in a sustained way.

I'm also less troubled by the idea that we have "3 second-line C." That seems to me closer to a strength than a weakness - we can roll 3-4 lines like crazy, and it's that depth that can beat out other teams. People seem to underrate this quality, being so fixated on the idea of the Big #1 C. (Not that'd I'd object if such a player fell into our laps). As for keeping Budaj over Tokarski because of "balance," that also seems odd to me. Keep the cheaper, younger, higher-ceiling player. Not rocket science.

The size thing at RW is definitely coo-coo, and that's one reason I'm slightly fuddled by MB's apparent desire to re-sign Gio. Hell, with Parros, Murray and perhaps Moen on the way out, we actually seem to be getting smaller (!) at least on paper. Weird, man.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

If last year, Bouillon, and Colby Armstrong are any indication, i'd prefer a quiet day from Bergevin.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do on the trade market; even trading Moen for a third line pick wouldn't be a bad idea.

[BCHabnut]

Haha. I forgot Armstrong was even on the team. Lol. I would embrace Tokarski as a back up, but I just got thinking that in a year, he will have to be traded if he continues to show promise. Then we would be back to looking for a backup again.

[habs rule]

Haha. I forgot Armstrong was even on the team. Lol. I would embrace Tokarski as a back up, but I just got thinking that in a year, he will have to be traded if he continues to show promise. Then we would be back to looking for a backup again.

Tokarski needs 2 years to learn how to play goal. He is a very good AHL goaltender but 15 games is not enough, unless you think he is the next dryden or Roy. He is good but not that good yet. Give him a couple years and let's see what we have. He could play 25 games and give Price more rest.